[AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by scrambler » Dec 13, 2017 9:21 pm

Aebrennan wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 7:52 pm
FYI I own and ride three different “pedal assist e-bicycles” all of which at full power the pedals are a nuisance IMHO
Are these based on cadence sensing or Torque sensing, and what is the nuisance exactly?

I do believe that a cadence sensing on high power would exaggerate the unpleasant behavior of cadence sensing pedal assist.

I am also sure a Torque base pedal assist on a high power bike would require serious tuning. Luna apparently experienced that first hand when tuning their Apex with the Bafang Ultra. And I would assume that you could really only use the pedal assist up to a certain power, as at one point it is going to be just too sensitive.

I am actually very curious to find out more about what Neematic did in this regard, but the extended delay from them is a bit worrisome on the future of the bike.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by JuiceMeUp » Dec 13, 2017 11:01 pm

Digressing from topic: I rode a Merida eOne-Sixty the other week. So smooth,natural and well tuned; I'd consider getting this legal e-bike
But saying that, all that fine bicycle feeling would taper off pretty quick at greater speeds / power levels to the point where it'd become a Frankenstein PAS abomination.
Different riding techniques are employed at different speeds to the point where pedals and bicycle seat become a real hindrance.
If Neematic have implemented a PAS, I bet it's at the lower power levels
Getting back to putting pedals on a Sur Ron, it'd be nothing more than a courtesy nod to the law. It would do nothing to enhance the product. Just give you a point to argue out on the trail. Kinda like Ducati Mirrors.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Volts » Dec 17, 2017 9:02 am

you can buy these on aliexpress now but they are like 9k aud

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Dec 17, 2017 2:28 pm

I am in the process of placing the order for the next Aussie shipment so anyone interested get in touch ASAP.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by macribs » Dec 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Aebrennan wrote:
Dec 13, 2017 5:35 pm
Really? Pedals and a bicycle seat?

I hope you never get your hands on one!

This is by far the most impressive designed vehicle I’ve seen come from China, to butcher it into some sort of “bicycle looking motorbike” would be such an insult

Apparently Luna cycle is offering a pedal kit...
Think they might be on to something, as long as the bike is not moped 45km/h it is not street legal in EU. And not being street legal can even get you into a lot of trouble on dirt roads, fire lanes, single tracks etc. If the police decide to pull over a Sur Ron rider they can write big fine for riding unlicensed motor vehicle no matter if the pull you over on the street, in the woods or riding dirt tracks on your way to the local motocross track. Worst case scenario the police can even impound the bike because bike should not be ridden outside motorcross track or outside private properties.

AFAIK Sur Ron have no intention of making bike EU compliance so will be hrd to get it registered and get plates. Pedals as wrong at it might look on such a nice bike, it really takes away all your worries.

At worst police will give you little fine/ticket for riding an over powered electric bicycle. Most likely they will leave you be as long as you remember to ghost pedal.

I am sure Luna will sell that at least that pedal kit to many EU Sur Ron riders.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by macribs » Dec 18, 2017 1:12 pm

Volts wrote:
Dec 17, 2017 9:02 am
you can buy these on aliexpress now but they are like 9k aud
You can get them cheaper at tmall read here;

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1336886

Direct link to where you can pick it up for about 2.500 $, then you need to add costs for some kind of shipping service as they only ship to asia. So a forwarder currier of some sort. I think it was down to 2.150 $ at the cheapest a month ago or so. Guess currencies fluctuate.

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a ... 1016202821

I really think you will come off better going in on a a group buy.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by madin88 » Dec 18, 2017 1:34 pm

macribs wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 12:48 pm
AFAIK Sur Ron have no intention of making bike EU compliance so will be hrd to get it registered and get plates. Pedals as wrong at it might look on such a nice bike, it really takes away all your worries.
If SurRon plans to sell really high quantities they will need to make it street legal.
In the country where i live (EU Austria) you can see cheap electric scooters on the streets with 45kmh number plate. Produced in china and usually these scooters have a hub drive and lead acid batteries.
I think sooner or later SurRon will do the same (after they made enough profit to pay everything it takes).

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by macribs » Dec 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Hopefully you are right.
I think however that Sure Ron can focus solely on the domestic market and rev up production for the next 5 years without being able to meet the demands. There are so many crap electric mopeds and scooters in China, and now they finally have a quality locally produced bike. I fear they will not being able to focus widely on our EU needs, EU compliance and A1 plates. Not in this decade.

And more and more chinese people got money to burn. So why not ride Sure Ron over some poc chinese scooter?

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by scrambler » Dec 18, 2017 1:50 pm

madin88 wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 1:34 pm
I think sooner or later SurRon will do the same (after they made enough profit to pay everything it takes).
That is the key and the catch 22.
The market is not quite mature enough that the manufacturers can safely assume they will sell the extra volume to pay for the high cost of doing certification. At the same time, the market cannot quite take off when the bikes are illegal on the road.

So we are going through this progressive ramp up, and have to hope someone will have the vision and bite the bullet :)
Having a really nice bike design like the Sur-Ron generate a lot of interest is a good thing for that.

All, we can do is keep making the suggestion to the manufacturers and vendors so they can grasp the potential.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by madin88 » Dec 18, 2017 2:03 pm

macribs wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 1:46 pm
Hopefully you are right.
I think however that Sure Ron can focus solely on the domestic market and rev up production for the next 5 years without being able to meet the demands. There are so many crap electric mopeds and scooters in China, and now they finally have a quality locally produced bike. I fear they will not being able to focus widely on our EU needs, EU compliance and A1 plates. Not in this decade.

And more and more chinese people got money to burn. So why not ride Sure Ron over some poc chinese scooter?
For A1 approval it definitely needs a motorcycle braking system, tires rated for 100+kmh and probaly other upgrades (on the suspension).
The power can be as high as 11kW and no speed limit.
Thats how it is in the country where i live.
The 45kmh moped approval it will likely pass how it comes without any changes (aside from brake light, reflectors and such things).
Most bicycle braking systems are adequat for 45kmh.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by macribs » Dec 18, 2017 3:41 pm

madin88 wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 2:03 pm
macribs wrote:
Dec 18, 2017 1:46 pm
Hopefully you are right.
I think however that Sure Ron can focus solely on the domestic market and rev up production for the next 5 years without being able to meet the demands. There are so many crap electric mopeds and scooters in China, and now they finally have a quality locally produced bike. I fear they will not being able to focus widely on our EU needs, EU compliance and A1 plates. Not in this decade.

And more and more chinese people got money to burn. So why not ride Sure Ron over some poc chinese scooter?
For A1 approval it definitely needs a motorcycle braking system, tires rated for 100+kmh and probaly other upgrades (on the suspension).
The power can be as high as 11kW and no speed limit.
Thats how it is in the country where i live.
The 45kmh moped approval it will likely pass how it comes without any changes (aside from brake light, reflectors and such things).
Most bicycle braking systems are adequat for 45kmh.
The best thing about the A1 is the loop hole that exist. That 11 kw max output power is actually continuous power. Meaning peak power can be twice that or or even more. There are a lot of Zero motorcycles around EU with A1 plates. :lol:

Dirt cheap insurance and still a powerful motorcycle. Lets hope someone is clever enough to get the bike A1 rated.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by JuiceMeUp » Dec 18, 2017 7:39 pm

https://youtu.be/rcXExxpSlP0 <---------- NEW RIDE FOOTAGE PART 2

https://youtu.be/8pDGmlU7EEo <---------- Challenging hill climb PART 3

A quick review from my own Sur Ron – initial impressions:

If your a moto guy and you gas this thing up the street, my very first thought was ‘More power’
Riding it in the single track though. It had more than I could use.

Handeling wise, very balanced and nimble. More so than a MTB based build. Those moto tyres offered more grip and bump absorbsion than any MTB tyre could. I was conquering sections of trail that I never had in the past. The camera just doesn’t pick up just how loose and blown out the track is in some places.
I feel very confidant descending on it. Brakes felt adequate but they haven’t been torture tested yet. May look into an upgrade

There was initially some noise from the chain running on (off the power). You can hear it in the video.
After the first ride, the chain had stretched to give a nice tension (looked a bit tight straight out of the box). Also cleaning it and adding a quality lube, that noise has mostly gone.
Walkers didn’t notice me until I was overtaking them. Some didn’t even look though I was 10 meters away

The stock suspension isn’t bad. I wound the compression all the way up. It feels confident ploughing through the rough stuff. But high speed bumps make it through to the bars. I might play around with some different suspension on the front (just ‘cause it’s laying around)

Things I’d like to change (personal preferance):
Raise the bars at least 50mm
Raise the seat about the same
Wider foot pegs

Wishlist:
The rear throttle cut off button in the brake lever – Should be used for Re-Gen. In fact. Where is the Re-Gen?
Gear it down for more torque and volt it up for the top end loss.
I’d like access to the controller settings.

Pro’s
No pedals or bicycle seat interfering with your ride. Can move about like a dirt bike.

Cons
No pedals or bicycle seat. There’s no hiding the fact your on an illegal (unregistered) bike. Ride accordingly

All up. I’m pretty happy with it and glad it’s in my garage. It’s charging as I write this then I’m off for another ride. Checkout the attached video of it’s Maiden Run. Mostly single track. All chesty cam.

Oh- Big thanks to Adam for getting these things into the country Great to make the trek to meet He and Jay and ride their stable. E-bike heaven where these guys live!

*More footage of much tougher stuff if interest is there.
Last edited by JuiceMeUp on Dec 21, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Dec 19, 2017 5:51 pm

Awesome to see another happy owner!

It was great to be able to put a face to the name and show you some of my trails.

Keep the vids coming I definitely enjoy seeing more footage.

You managed an awesome range too, I haven’t got over 50kms yet off mine but varied terrain hard to compare.

I hope to have some big news very soon so will be in touch.

Thanks

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Volts » Dec 20, 2017 8:26 am

how much is it for the group buy?

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Dec 20, 2017 5:13 pm

PM sent

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Marksteamnz » Dec 23, 2017 3:12 am

I'm in New Zealand, any chance of being included in a group buy? Extra shipping obviously.Only found out about the Fire Fly a couple of days ago, and have been catching up and watching the videos. Looks like a fun machine.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Dec 23, 2017 5:28 am

PM sent

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 03, 2018 1:45 am

Today I sent the last available bike to Marksteamnz in New Zealand!

Thanks to Hyena, Juicemeup, kalsteve and Marksteamnz for getting on board.

We now have bikes in a few states and shortly will be across the Tasman too.

I have already scheduled another shipment of bikes to hopefully arrive in February.

Anyone interested in getting a bike from the next batch please message ASAP for special ES members pricing. The A e-bikes website/online store will have to add GST to the price.

If you or anybody you know is curious, I have demo bikes in both voltages and fork combos available for inspection/testing in Sydney and will have a demo bike in Qld soon.

If you are in VIC maybe you can PM Juicemeup...

If you are in NZ soon you can talk to Marksteamnz.

There are many YouTube vids up now of my rides and Hyena and Luk Char so check them out.

Thanks
Adam

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by alswiseowl » Jan 03, 2018 4:49 am

just had a test ride today of hyenas one 8)
& man its a nice ride that runs smooth the sur ron..
I noticed the throttle response initially aint as delicate I think is the right word that describes the throttle response on the surron,but its plenty powerful enough I think, went up a really hilly area with ease I'm bout 85kg
defiantly no complaints on the test run phase,,if anything it leaves you wanting the ebike more, well thats how I feel.
defiantly feels sturdy & is well built, the quality workmanship factor is there.
for the money they are selling these bikes for, it surely seems well worth it..
on the next group buy, I would of been in as quick as a heart beat, but since theres no pedals & our laws in Australia.
it just won't work..if you have access to trails man that would be the perfect ride..
p.s
hyenas alpha, had me checking me undies (twice)& here I thought I was built for speed :o
wish I had access to trails n offroad scenarios
defiantly who ever gets one will be happy with their purchase
just my two cents.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 03, 2018 4:57 am

To those who have to have pedals,I can supply the bike with the factory designed pedal kit, it’s not my cup of tea but obviously what some people want.

I am also going to have gearing options too and spare parts support.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by scrambler » Jan 03, 2018 10:41 am

I would surprised anybody wants THAT pedal kit :)

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 03, 2018 10:03 pm

I am surprised that people keep talking about pedals for this dirtbike, but they do so this will be the only option I will offer.

As previously mentioned I don’t want/like pedals on the Sur-Ron e-moto dirtbike but unfortunately most of the chatter surrounding the bike revolves around the pedal discussion.

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by beefcake_ground p!geon » Jan 30, 2018 8:39 pm

hi first timer
but can get a pm , pricing, etc, very interested hopefully able to order2
regards

awesome looking bike have been following for a bit now🙃🙃looks good , damn China for been so smart, 👍👍, looks just like my "specialised big hit" down hill bike I've had for years added a huge battery n motor, same upside down boomerang rear swing arm sold me on the push bike sold me on Sur Ron too tough stance looks good.......
I would like,want,hope,pray to get soon

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by dschafer » Feb 06, 2018 11:05 pm

Hi,
Interested in pricing and avail in Melbourne
Cheers

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Re: [AUSTRALIA] Sur-Ron Light Bee / Fire Fly - Mid drive ebike

Post by Marksteamnz » Feb 08, 2018 12:27 am

I've had my Fire Fly for over 2 weeks now and it is MAGIC. I used to ride an fairly clapped out 200 XL Honda which I thought I was the dogs danglers on, I then traded up to a 250 Husquvana 2 stroke with all the trick gear and discovered I was in fact completely crap at riding. Since then I hadn't ridden a Trail bike in about 15 years.
So I now have a light, (50kg), capable, (accelerates up our horribly steep drive and handles our gravel roads), electric motorbike. It is a brilliant solution for a ancient, heavy (95 kg) rider. We live out in the country with lots of farm tracks and gravel roads and almost zero interest from the traffic police, perfect for me.
Thanks to Adam for a the painless experience of getting the bike to me.

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