EV-1 Conversion

[pwbset]

Niiiiice. So ahead of it's time. GM/BigOil should rot in hell for what they did to this beauty. Can't wait to see the outcome of your project! A PM of your solo jackstand process would be appreciated as I've been trying to figure out how to do it with a '72 VW Campmobile without killing myself.

[JCG]

Thanks all, I'll try to tackle a couple of comments before the next little update here.

Go hook up with a hot artsy chick (eco geeks are really "in" now anyway) over in graphics design, and give this car a paint job it deserves.

Oh, and send an email to Big O. With the gov't now owning a big chunk of GM, and full electrics are the future, I'm sure it would be easy to get approval to refit/improve the EV1 to become the EV1.1 or EV2.

Ha! Good news - my wife is both artsy and crafty. As for aid, I'm getting some help from key people in the DC area electric vehicle enthusiast's group (EVA/DC) and there are even still some "benefactors" for our School of Engineering from GM. They aren't giving money right now, but I think I can convince them that they owe it to everyone...

Do you have ideas on the gasoline or diesel engine choice yet?

Hi Luke, still shooting for an ammonia-powered spark ignition engine that will run at around 20:1. I have a friend in Michigan working with me on this at Eliminator Products. I think it'll be fuel-flexible (diesel, propane, or ammonia) but that's a job for this summer. The generator head needs to be rated around 30 kWe or so. With luck and those high compression ratios, we'll be knocking on the door of 50% efficiencies (early dyno tests confirm). We really just need it to fit in the trunk.

I have seen they are working on a new typ of lipo that will quick charge (ie a car could be charged in a few minutes) but I have seen no proof as of yet.

I think I've read about this recently - the SCiB battery from Toshiba? Worth keeping an eye on, certainly.

pwbset, no reason to not post the four jack stand method here. It's not bulletproof, but worked here on a relatively flat concrete slab.

1) raise driver's side (DS) front, first jack stand under front DS axle.
2) raise DS rear, second jack stand under DS rear suspension point. (Note: this the most dangerous time. The stands must be as low as possible to keep the car from rolling where you're about to stand.)
3) raise passenger's side (PS) front, third jack stand under front PS axle. When you do this, the floor jack should be at a non-perpendicular angle to the car's sidewall, as it may try to roll towards you when the front tire comes up. Also, check jack stand #2 often as the car may "float" above the stand you put there earlier as you get the PS raised higher.
4) raise PS rear, fourth jack stand under PS rear suspension point. Let the floor jack down slowly, realigning the rear jack stands as needed. The front jack stands should stay put.

Again, be careful! I'll put EV-1 updates in the next post.

[JCG]

Ok, time for more photos. Last night I went about taking the battery tray out of the car. I was not looking forward to how filthy it was going to be, but it had to be done. The first step was removing the air shields from the middle and rear of the car, which covered part of the tray edges. Here they are after extraction. You can kind of see the t-shape between the three.



The battery tray is a heavy-duty plastic form reinforced with a metal framework above it. Here's a view under the car with the air shields removed.



I didn't have a lift table that would fit under the car at this height, so I estimated the centroid and put the floor jack underneath to let it down slowly after taking off the last couple of bolts.



I slightly "misunderestimated" the centroid, but the whole thing dropped out well once I got the jack out of the way.




Here's the tray. Completely empty...



Except for more rat crap, plastic bag pieces, and chicken bones. Thank you, rattus norvegicus.



Good advice from the top cover.



I took off the top cover, cleaned out the tray a bit (more yet to be done - I want a hose and bleach), and tested the fit of the ultracap module in the slots. The fit is not perfect; I'll need to do some cutting/grinding.




Now for the bad news - when I examined the underside of the car with the tray removed, it was empty. When they took the batteries, they took it all - modules, cables, fuse/fuse holder, disconnect plug, and main battery connector. Looks like I have some shopping to do.

[BlackArrow]

Hi,

I read that the EV1 project had started with the purchase of this plan (Urba electric car see below) which dates back several years and strangely we find the same T configuration for the battery tray, very nice pictures indeed and information is really cool!

http://www.rqriley.com/urba-e.html

Black Arrow

[vanilla ice]

If there is a legal requirement for non-pure electric, but you did want a full EV.. set it up as a serial hybrid with a 25cc Subaru Robin engine!

[JCG]

Black Arrow - neat! Thanks for that webpage. I love reading about the EVs that came to the forefront after the first oil shock.

Vanilla - ha, that would definitely fit in the trunk! Nice one.

[paultrafalgar]

Hi Luke, still shooting for an ammonia-powered spark ignition engine that will run at around 20:1. I have a friend in Michigan working with me on this at Eliminator Products. I think it'll be fuel-flexible (diesel, propane, or ammonia) but that's a job for this summer. The generator head needs to be rated around 30 kWe or so. With luck and those high compression ratios, we'll be knocking on the door of 50% efficiencies (early dyno tests confirm). We really just need it to fit in the trunk.

I have a feeling I've pointed you at this before, but here goes: your mention of ammonia reminded my of Amminex:
http://www.amminex.net/
They are storing ammonia in a salt format and then disassociating it with heat and feeding the NH3 to a fuel cell. Maybe you could just use the first stage and apply that to your "ammonia-powered spark ignition engine". I am not sure if they have purchaseable product yet.
Edit: a reference to ammonia engines here:
http://www.voxsolaris.com/nh3driver.html

[lutach]

Have you thought about contacting Ovonic for the batteries?

[lutach]

If you are set on a generator, see if Capstone can help you out.

[JEB]

A friend of mine has a GM electric truck, they did not crush them (he has a ford, and gm) maybe the controllers were close to being alike in EV 1. The parts, and the (private) support for the gm seem to be going away.

[evdriver]

Now for the bad news - when I examined the underside of the car with the tray removed, it was empty. When they took the batteries, they took it all - modules, cables, fuse/fuse holder, disconnect plug, and main battery connector. Looks like I have some shopping to do.

Seriously, you have bigger issues to deal with.

(1) Look under the dash, drivers side, kickpanel. Yeah, all that dangling crap is where the BTCM used to be.

(2) Now go over the passenger side and look in the same area. A ghost of where the HTCM once resided.

There's a couple more surprises lurking too.

And after all that; you can't drive it on the streets.

[grindz145]

Are you going to have a title for this thing afterward? I haven't heard of ANYONE that actually had one on the road. This would be nothing short of biblical in my book. GM seriously did a really nice job on this thing, the interior looks nicer than any general motors crap I've seen. Will be following closely, Thanks !

[evdriver]

Are you going to have a title for this thing afterward? I haven't heard of ANYONE that actually had one on the road.

Well, then here's a surprise for you

The EV1 was driven into the Renewable LA event:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCBc8pL1 ... re=related

The EV1 returns to Washington, stopping at a Seattle EAA meeting. Dr Mike Seal discusses the work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewg8yawj ... re=related

The shop where it was restored back to a completely original EV1, using all original GM EV1 parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA9jD8NI ... re=related

You can't title the EV1. If the terms of the "gift/loan" are violated, GM will send a warning to the regents. If it continues, they send a tow truck and take your toy

[paultrafalgar]

Wouldn't they be lynched in the current climate if they tried that? Perhaps you need the Magritte approach: "C'est ne pas une pipe" or in this case "This is not an EV1" painted on the side in large letters. Or maybe a cloaking device

[vanilla ice]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

[TylerDurden]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

That is a great idea.

The New GeeEmm EeVee-Wun.

[BlackArrow]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

That is a great idea.

The New GeeEmm EeVee-Wun.

Black Arrow

[JCG]

Seriously, you have bigger issues to deal with.
(1) Look under the dash, drivers side, kickpanel. Yeah, all that dangling crap is where the BTCM used to be.
(2) Now go over the passenger side and look in the same area. A ghost of where the HTCM once resided.
There's a couple more surprises lurking too.
And after all that; you can't drive it on the streets.

Well... it's not so bad as all that. I'll be able to operate without the BTCM, as standard brakes still work (no ABS functionality though), and the repaired inverter has inputs I can use to directly connect potentiometers to run traction and regen braking signals. So it'll run just fine. The HTCM is something I was never counting on... that heat pump may never power on again. But I have a way to put my own inputs into it in a similar fashion. I really think I'll just use the windows as required. Just like my old car back in grad school...

Kitcar EV-1s? I like it! Somebody who has a 3-D camera, come on out and we'll make a computer model of the body.

Anyway, things are at a minor standstill until I can get the battery-to-controller connector, a mid-pack contactor, and a fuse. I got quotes today, will be making purchases soon. Thanks all for following.

Jason

[evdriver]

Well... it's not so bad as all that. I'll be able to operate without the BTCM, as standard brakes still work (no ABS functionality though), and the repaired inverter has inputs I can use to directly connect potentiometers to run traction and regen braking signals.

It's not just ABS. There are no standard brakes on the EV1. The EV1 uses 4 wheel electric brakes. The two front wheels also include a small emergency hydraulic backup (without assist) that GM's lawyers demanded be included just in case the EV1 brake by wire system failed. You'll need both feeties on the brake pedal to stop it using those front only emergency backup hydraulics.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort. Posting that you'll operate it without a safe and functional brake system makes it difficult to take your efforts seriously.

[JCG]

It's not just ABS. There are no standard brakes on the EV1. The EV1 uses 4 wheel electric brakes. The two front wheels also include a small emergency hydraulic backup (without assist) that GM's lawyers demanded be included just in case the EV1 brake by wire system failed. You'll need both feeties on the brake pedal to stop it using those front only emergency backup hydraulics.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort. Posting that you'll operate it without a safe and functional brake system makes it difficult to take your efforts seriously.

I think you might be getting ME wrong - I'm learning new information about this particular vehicle with every bolt I remove. There's also not much about the braking system in the battery system/charging manual that I have (my only service manual). I did know from my own experience in pushing the car around the garage that the foot brake still operates and will stop the car, though apparently there's more to it than I thought.

The first paragraph of your post is why I thought the idea of posting this thread was a good idea. There are plenty of interested people out there that have a wealth of knowledge (like yourself) that will really help a very lonely project keep momentum and overcome problems. The second paragraph is why one might think twice about posting in a public forum. I'm not sure why you'd not take my effort seriously (while applauding it), unless you doubted my dedication to the work itself. It's not easy working by myself in a discipline that's not my own, on a vehicle that was sitting forgotten in a garage because the original investigators gave up trying to find a place to work on it (and had no interested students). But I do want to find success in the end.

It seems like you have some personal experience in working on an EV-1, that's very valuable. If you wanted to, you could help (in a collegial manner) to shed light on this project. I hope you will.

Anyway, this helped me search to find some good information. I found this in an online fire fighting bulletin:

The EV1 braking and steering systems are both unique in that they are electro-hydraulic systems. The front disk brakes are hydraulically actuated and powered by electrically driven pistons (12-volt power); the rear drums are electrically actuated (12-volt power).

They had operated using the 12V system, which gives me some hope for finding a way to operate them. I'll pour over the battery system manual and see if I can find what kind of signal the pistons might be able to use, and if the brake pedal can somehow deliver it. I'll probably call for help from someone in the EE department. This seems like something that can be done before the high voltage stuff is ready, so that's good.

[paultrafalgar]

... It's not easy working by myself in a discipline that's not my own, on a vehicle that was sitting forgotten in a garage because the original investigators gave up trying to find a place to work on it (and had no interested students). But I do want to find success in the end.

JCG, have you thought of asking here if there's anyone in your area interested in helping? Sounds like you need a friendly bod with some interest to give moral support at least. I sympathize. I find it much more congenial working with someone else, even if I'm doing all or most of the actual work. I suppose access to the uni premises might be a problem. Anyway, I'm certain that there's a lot of people here who are rooting for you.

[AndyH]

JCG - You might enjoy reading this. Enjoy! Andy

[GCinDC]

I just keep wondering if the chicken bones were in there first, and drew the rats in, rather than the other way around...

Hey John! Glad to see you got the controller back and are getting back into it!

Let me know when you need a hand. Obviously I've got my hands full on the homefront, but I'd love to help out.

I had a great time coming to check it out the first time!

Greg

[AussieJester]

Tiiight car!

IIRC from the brochure the 88-91 crx was .29 and the 88-91 civic hatch was .31.. probably a little on the optimistic side.

Dunno if you fellas got them in USofA but the Mitsubishi Cordia had a pretty impressive drag co-efficient was .340
similar looking car to the Honda too, my old man had one of Turbo models, our police force even used them for short
stint until they started cooking turbos in them.

KiM

[liveforphysics]

In the process of turning little economy cars into race cars, brakes always need to be upgraded.

You can fit any brake to any car pretty easily. If it's all ready got a big enough brake rotor there, even if the caliper is something weird you don't want to work with, I will happily CNC you brackets to mount a conventional caliper of whatever size would be fit the rotor and the application. Then remove the factory brake components, and fit a traditional mechanical manual brake master cylinder and run your brake lines. In all honestly, it's really quite easy and a non-issue to swap out brake components to be whatever you want them to be.

From the description though, this sounds like it's just electric power brakes rather than the normal vacuum powered power brakes. Some diesel vehicles also have this, and it's not a big deal to work with. I think you will be fine just hooking power it it and having it assist. If not, let me know, and I will machine up whatever brackets you need to let you mount any calipers and any master cylinder in the car that you desire.

-Luke