EV-1 Conversion

[TylerDurden]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

That is a great idea.

The New GeeEmm EeVee-Wun.

[BlackArrow]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

That is a great idea.

The New GeeEmm EeVee-Wun.

Black Arrow

[JCG]

Seriously, you have bigger issues to deal with.
(1) Look under the dash, drivers side, kickpanel. Yeah, all that dangling crap is where the BTCM used to be.
(2) Now go over the passenger side and look in the same area. A ghost of where the HTCM once resided.
There's a couple more surprises lurking too.
And after all that; you can't drive it on the streets.

Well... it's not so bad as all that. I'll be able to operate without the BTCM, as standard brakes still work (no ABS functionality though), and the repaired inverter has inputs I can use to directly connect potentiometers to run traction and regen braking signals. So it'll run just fine. The HTCM is something I was never counting on... that heat pump may never power on again. But I have a way to put my own inputs into it in a similar fashion. I really think I'll just use the windows as required. Just like my old car back in grad school...

Kitcar EV-1s? I like it! Somebody who has a 3-D camera, come on out and we'll make a computer model of the body.

Anyway, things are at a minor standstill until I can get the battery-to-controller connector, a mid-pack contactor, and a fuse. I got quotes today, will be making purchases soon. Thanks all for following.

Jason

[evdriver]

Well... it's not so bad as all that. I'll be able to operate without the BTCM, as standard brakes still work (no ABS functionality though), and the repaired inverter has inputs I can use to directly connect potentiometers to run traction and regen braking signals.

It's not just ABS. There are no standard brakes on the EV1. The EV1 uses 4 wheel electric brakes. The two front wheels also include a small emergency hydraulic backup (without assist) that GM's lawyers demanded be included just in case the EV1 brake by wire system failed. You'll need both feeties on the brake pedal to stop it using those front only emergency backup hydraulics.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort. Posting that you'll operate it without a safe and functional brake system makes it difficult to take your efforts seriously.

[JCG]

It's not just ABS. There are no standard brakes on the EV1. The EV1 uses 4 wheel electric brakes. The two front wheels also include a small emergency hydraulic backup (without assist) that GM's lawyers demanded be included just in case the EV1 brake by wire system failed. You'll need both feeties on the brake pedal to stop it using those front only emergency backup hydraulics.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort. Posting that you'll operate it without a safe and functional brake system makes it difficult to take your efforts seriously.

I think you might be getting ME wrong - I'm learning new information about this particular vehicle with every bolt I remove. There's also not much about the braking system in the battery system/charging manual that I have (my only service manual). I did know from my own experience in pushing the car around the garage that the foot brake still operates and will stop the car, though apparently there's more to it than I thought.

The first paragraph of your post is why I thought the idea of posting this thread was a good idea. There are plenty of interested people out there that have a wealth of knowledge (like yourself) that will really help a very lonely project keep momentum and overcome problems. The second paragraph is why one might think twice about posting in a public forum. I'm not sure why you'd not take my effort seriously (while applauding it), unless you doubted my dedication to the work itself. It's not easy working by myself in a discipline that's not my own, on a vehicle that was sitting forgotten in a garage because the original investigators gave up trying to find a place to work on it (and had no interested students). But I do want to find success in the end.

It seems like you have some personal experience in working on an EV-1, that's very valuable. If you wanted to, you could help (in a collegial manner) to shed light on this project. I hope you will.

Anyway, this helped me search to find some good information. I found this in an online fire fighting bulletin:

The EV1 braking and steering systems are both unique in that they are electro-hydraulic systems. The front disk brakes are hydraulically actuated and powered by electrically driven pistons (12-volt power); the rear drums are electrically actuated (12-volt power).

They had operated using the 12V system, which gives me some hope for finding a way to operate them. I'll pour over the battery system manual and see if I can find what kind of signal the pistons might be able to use, and if the brake pedal can somehow deliver it. I'll probably call for help from someone in the EE department. This seems like something that can be done before the high voltage stuff is ready, so that's good.

[paultrafalgar]

... It's not easy working by myself in a discipline that's not my own, on a vehicle that was sitting forgotten in a garage because the original investigators gave up trying to find a place to work on it (and had no interested students). But I do want to find success in the end.

JCG, have you thought of asking here if there's anyone in your area interested in helping? Sounds like you need a friendly bod with some interest to give moral support at least. I sympathize. I find it much more congenial working with someone else, even if I'm doing all or most of the actual work. I suppose access to the uni premises might be a problem. Anyway, I'm certain that there's a lot of people here who are rooting for you.

[AndyH]

JCG - You might enjoy reading this. Enjoy! Andy

[GCinDC]

I just keep wondering if the chicken bones were in there first, and drew the rats in, rather than the other way around...

Hey John! Glad to see you got the controller back and are getting back into it!

Let me know when you need a hand. Obviously I've got my hands full on the homefront, but I'd love to help out.

I had a great time coming to check it out the first time!

Greg

[AussieJester]

Tiiight car!

IIRC from the brochure the 88-91 crx was .29 and the 88-91 civic hatch was .31.. probably a little on the optimistic side.

Dunno if you fellas got them in USofA but the Mitsubishi Cordia had a pretty impressive drag co-efficient was .340
similar looking car to the Honda too, my old man had one of Turbo models, our police force even used them for short
stint until they started cooking turbos in them.

KiM

[liveforphysics]

In the process of turning little economy cars into race cars, brakes always need to be upgraded.

You can fit any brake to any car pretty easily. If it's all ready got a big enough brake rotor there, even if the caliper is something weird you don't want to work with, I will happily CNC you brackets to mount a conventional caliper of whatever size would be fit the rotor and the application. Then remove the factory brake components, and fit a traditional mechanical manual brake master cylinder and run your brake lines. In all honestly, it's really quite easy and a non-issue to swap out brake components to be whatever you want them to be.

From the description though, this sounds like it's just electric power brakes rather than the normal vacuum powered power brakes. Some diesel vehicles also have this, and it's not a big deal to work with. I think you will be fine just hooking power it it and having it assist. If not, let me know, and I will machine up whatever brackets you need to let you mount any calipers and any master cylinder in the car that you desire.

-Luke

[paultrafalgar]

JCG - You might enjoy reading this. Enjoy! Andy
High Performance APU Series Hybrid Electric Vehicle KLK331.pdf

That's very interesting Andy. Here's a quick quote from it that I think many Spheroids will be interested in:

"One conclusion of this work was that a high performance APU weighing less than 41 kg (90
lbs.) and occupying a volume less than .09 cubic meters (3 cubic feet) can provide enough
power for a 1800 kg (4000 lbs.) series HEV to operate at freeway speeds. A Yamaha 250cc,
four-stroke, SI engine is the best commercially available engine for this application. The engine
model was validated against its specifications."

[TPA]

Don't let Martin Sheen see that!

You will have a pack of stalker groupies carrying signs, crying and chanting at you through the fence.

[JCG]

Shopping is taking more time than I'd hoped - but I'm getting some key help in choosing hardware from the the BYU EV-1 drag racers (thanks, guys)! The contactor is on the way, quote is coming in for the Cannon connector, and I think I've found a good source for a large fuse.

Andy - thanks so much for that document. This is going to be a great read on a cold day. I've been seeking info about APUs of this size for some time.

Greg - as always, you've got an open invitation. Come on down when you've got a free evening and I'll show you how clean the battery tray is now (love that Chlorox bleach). In the meantime, Charlie W. from EVA/DC has been a lot of help. When you do come, bring some chicken. I'm all out. Oh, and call me Jason

Luke, that's very generous for you to offer the CNC service, etc. Thanks for that - we'll see how this brake work develops. Last night I got some good info from the BYU team, in that they just applied 12 V to the rear brakes with a switch and used it as a parking brake. If it works proportionally with a range of voltages, I'll do as you suggest - hook up a pot to the brake pedal with direct connection to the 12 V bus, and work them that way.

[dennis]

...from concept to reality ...a capstone would be perfect for this test bed... http://www.microturbine.com/news/video/view/whisper.asp ...hmmm Jay Leno...wonder if his deep pockets will open up for such a project

[evchels]

Hi Jason,

This is so cool, congratulations! As you might imagine, I'm very excited about the prospect of another EV1 running again...

In addition to Western WA's EV1 that was posted above, BYU and Univ. WI, Madison have also re-built theirs, though all as pure EVs. Video of UW's here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEROQCvSMfo and an article about BYU's here: http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/displ ... &artid=250

GM also did a few different versions of one-off EV1s, including a 4-seat PHEV- it's the orange one on this site: http://ev1-club.power.net/

Look forward to following your adventure!

chelsea

[Matthijs]

From Craig Osterday, the designer of the EV1's brake system.

"The EV1 did have Hydraulic front brakes (standard hydraulic aluminum
calipers), but they were pressurized by a modified ABS6 actuator, which was
activated by the PFE (pedal force emulator). This provided hydraulic
pressure to the front calipers. It was still brake-by-wire, as there was no
direct hydraulic linkage between the pedal and the calipers. The ABS6 was a
motor - ball screw actuator which Delphi used to make, and was on many GM
vehicles. The rear brakes were all electric, using a motor/ball screw
actuation to expand the drum linings (the drum was a special
carbon/metallic/aluminum composite for weight savings. Hope this helps.

And it was a very high-tech car, and a blast to drive. (It even would lay
rubber). The weak link was the batteries. I drove it home when it was 25F,
and barely made the 20 mile drive before the batteries died. Thank goodness
it had REGEN braking to help the charge."

I found this info on a thread at the apteraforum.com: http://www.apteraforum.com/showthread.p ... 05&page=12

You can also contact the poster of the messages because she has contact with Craig Osterday.

[Matthijs]

Chelsea Sexton says this on the conversion at the apteraforum.com

There were about 40 of them that were gutted and donated to museums and universities (Smithsonian has the only intact donated EV1). Three universities: BYU, University of WI, Madison, and W. WA Univ (above) have all rebuilt theirs, but all as pure EVs so far.

Can't wait to see what happens with this one!

The others made theirs pure electric why not ditch the generator?

[paultrafalgar]

Welcome to the Sphere Jason, and thanks for the links.

[GCinDC]

Make a mold of the body so we can make kitcar EV1's.

That is a great idea.

The New GeeEmm EeVee-Wun.

Mold or model? If model, I'd be happy to volunteer... How could it be done? Special equipment?

[JCG]

Chelsea - welcome, welcome. We'll try to do you proud with this project. I'm back to trolling for money again but things continue to move forward.

Thanks for those links Matthijs. I'm getting close to taking off the rear wheels and tracing the electrical lines going to those rear calipers. I'll try applying a set DC voltage from a power supply - should be interesting. Right now they spin freely.

Greg, I've read about people using 3D cameras or something like that to take a physical object and then get it into a CAD program. Never done it before though!

Probably time for a mini update, picture heavy as usual.

I spent the time waiting for the HV hardware to arrive by installing the capacitor modules into the battery tray. Here's the general schematic for laying them in.


I installed the #1 module, and it fit in with minimal adjustment. The zip ties will hold it down and centered.


Modules 2-5, which are arranged back-to-back laying on their sides, took a lot more work. These posts were about 3/16" too far in on each side:


Drilling, hacksawing by hand, etc. allowed me to get them in. They're secured to one another with four bolts per pair.


Here's modules 1,2,3,4,5, and 8 installed. 6 and 7 are the ones I assembled cell by cell, so I'll be building a plastic case for each of them before installing.


Here are the contactor and the fuse (in a fuse holder). The contactor is a Kilovac EV200 series, operated with a 12 V coil. The fuse is Ferraz-Shamwut, 400 A, 500 VDC semiconductor type. They'll both go mid-pack, between modules 4 and 5. I'll have access to them through the hole behind the driver's seat.


Here's the inverter, still in the box. It's got a monster connector receptacle (type 32-1), which uses two 1/0 connections. This is the main DC power input to the motor inverter. The smaller wires aren't used anymore.



The connector plug needed those 1/0 cables to be soldered in, and since I only ordered one I had to do it myself. Here's the slideshow. I'll spare you the description for now.









The outer cap is on it now. If I can finish wiring up the capacitors and remake my charging supply (220 VAC line, 220 V variac, bridge rectifier), I can get 300+ VDC to the inverter and light it up.

[fechter]

Wow!, now that's a connector!

Wouldn't want to see that sucker short out (well, acually I probably would if it was on a video).

[lrdbyron96]

Hi I was wondering if you would reply w/the last 3 digits of the VIN, back in the 90's I was involved w/ EV1's and I'm wondering if I know the one you got there?

Thanks

[aminorjourney]

Wow!

It's good to see another classic EV getting rebuilt and put on the roads! I'm feeling guilty seeing how much work you're going to that my CityStromer EV isn't going to have her original controller when she's recomissioned in a few month's time. Sadly, 1980s wiring and circuit diagrams are so complex and tough to trouble-shoot (and we're not sure what goes were!) that we're going to use a contemporary controller.

Had you thought of using a detachable towing mechanism to do the hybrid bit?

Nikki.

[JCG]

Byron - the last three VIN digits are 524. I checked the entire VIN against another online database a couple of years ago, no hits however. Let me know if you find someone who used to own this one, they might like to know it isn't destroyed (yet).

Hi Nikki - well, if the generator set (and fuel tank) won't fit in the trunk, the trailer idea is the only other option. Sure hope it doesn't come to that though, I don't think it'll be easy rigging a trailer hitch to this car. Anyway, good luck with your CityStormer!

[evchels]

The EV1 you have was actually a promo used by the EV Specialists in CA. Was never privately leased.