Have you seen the Zombie 222 - Electric Mustang 0-60 1.9 sec

[youtube]ZAwIsKC7ROQ[/youtube]

that is really cool. i'd like to drive one. even a super weak bmw i3 was fun to drive. full torque from stand still.

but the battery is a little weird. one milliwatt? could it be 1MWh? which would equal 1.000kWh and that would be 700x the battery i carry right now on my bike making this weigh almost 10t. or do they mean a battery capable of 1MW or around 1.400bhp? most probably.

Funny, I've never heard of it, even though it's right in my town.

I guess that's because it's just another ludicrously expensive, dangerous, socially irresponsible toy for rich guys who don't work for their money. That puts it outside my home territory, regardless of location.

Chalo said:

Funny, I've never heard of it, even though it's right in my town.
I guess that's because it's just another ludicrously expensive, dangerous, socially irresponsible toy for rich guys who don't work for their money. That puts it outside my home territory, regardless of location.

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If I had the money to burn I would convert our minivan for some fun with the street racers that race in front of my house. :lol: Chevrolet Corvolt Van.

oh man. quoting makes ignore lists so senseless.
i thought the us was more open minded.
pushing things to the limit is what makes us human.

Izeman

Im not sure what he means by 1.1mw either ive watched all his videos the lipo pack is 100 pounds I think he would have to drive it slow to get 50 miles.

Here is another quick EV in Aussie.

[youtube]RKKvN5ERw90[/youtube]

Cheers Kiwi

Z222 is a cheque book racer.
John Wayland ( Whith Zombie ?) is the brains behind the car.
1.1 MW is the theoretical Power it can generate...366 volts and 3000 amps = 1.1 MW ( 1100 kW )
It runs a minimum size lipo pack for best performance figures. put together by Derek Barger of 'High Tech Systems',.. 17.7 kWh lithium pack, using LiPo Ultra high power cells .....960 cells in a 10P 96S configuration. , 366 voltage pack giving 3000AMPs to twin Zilla Z2k controllers, and a pair of NetGain 11 inch motors !!

Hillhater said:

Z222 is a cheque book racer.
John Wayland ( Whith Zombie ?) is the brains behind the car.
1.1 MW is the theoretical Power it can generate...366 volts and 3000 amps = 1.1 MW ( 1100 kW )
It runs a minimum size lipo pack for best performance figures. put together by Derek Barger of 'High Tech Systems',.. 17.7 kWh lithium pack, using LiPo Ultra high power cells .....960 cells in a 10P 96S configuration. , 366 voltage pack giving 3000AMPs to twin Zilla Z2k controllers, and a pair of NetGain 11 inch motors !!

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Cheers Hill it certainly is a beast

Cheers Kiwi

Always entertaining to read the youtube comments, this is my favorite:

Holy shit this is even worst than a 4cyl ecoboost 2015 mustang! Your taking a classic, no, historic body and ruining it with an electric motor! I dont care how many horses, how much torque it makes, its not right. Its not a muscle car anymore, its a total train wreck! The idiot that built this just cant possibly live with himself, he ruined America's favorite muscle car, a classic stang.

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John Wayland may be the brains behind component selection, but Mitch Medford came up with the idea.

This car is a thing of beauty. I want one...

...but if I had that kind of money, I'd want to build a mid-motor 4-wheel-drive custom from the ground up with a Soliton Shiva controller and enough motor(s)/batteries to use the Shiva to its full potential(possibly triple WarP 11 HVs direct drive), and try to keep the car's total weight under 2,500 lbs and overall CdA under 4 sq-ft, with gearing for 250-ish mph top speed... The tires alone would cost more than most new cars on the market today. Imagine 6.5 second 1/4 mile drag races and 100% street legal... and when driven sanely, less than 120 Wh/mi @ 60 mph with some serious Tesla-slaying range... *drool*

The parts are already there to do it, it's just a matter of know-how and money, both of which would be inadequate on my part alone, but one could dream.

Hillhater said:

Z222 is a cheque book racer.
John Wayland ( Whith Zombie ?) is the brains behind the car.
1.1 MW is the theoretical Power it can generate...366 volts and 3000 amps = 1.1 MW ( 1100 kW )
It runs a minimum size lipo pack for best performance figures. put together by Derek Barger of 'High Tech Systems',.. 17.7 kWh lithium pack, using LiPo Ultra high power cells .....960 cells in a 10P 96S configuration. , 366 voltage pack giving 3000AMPs to twin Zilla Z2k controllers, and a pair of NetGain 11 inch motors !!

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Hey btw... That's the same Lonestars true 100C/200C lipo as i will be using on the 2wd NYX bike I bought them direct from John Metric. He said a guy on NEDRA really tried them at 200C and beat his record of all time on the drag strip.. but the connector plastic melted!.. These cells have 0.6 miliohms at ambient and you cut that by half when they are warm!!

I will use that 13 pounds 750Wh pack i have built as well as on my Zero in 2016 for drag racing!... and.. saving 150 pounds on a 343pounds motorcycle according to what i measured i can extrapolate that this pack is capable of 70kW burst with the cells above 3.3V


I posted a graph of the PREVIOUS cells lower performance they were using in 2013 ( 45C) now they moved to newer TRUE higher performance cells of 100/200C. These come with 8 gauge wire and 8mm bullet connector that is sub 100 uohm resistance. But the melting point of the 8 AWG is at 450A so these are capable of 100C for short burst... and 200C for VERy short burst during 1/8 mile.

Doc

Dr. Bass, if you don't mind me asking, how much did that 750 Wh pack cost you? 200C is ridiculous...

I find kinda intriguing that these high-powered drag racers all seem to use brushed motors.

Punx0r said:

I find kinda intriguing that these high-powered drag racers all seem to use brushed motors.

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Yeah.. There is alot great discussion on the electricmotorcycleforum about that. It seem that the two main reasons are the c$o$s$t$ and also the little bit higher torque at low speed from the DC brushed motor.

The Toecutter said:

Dr. Bass, if you don't mind me asking, how much did that 750 Wh pack cost you? 200C is ridiculous...

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120$ usd per 6s 4500mAh.

These come with 6" 8 gauge installeld with 8mm ultra low resistance bullet connector and some "Y" 20awg silicon wire harness for the ballance connector when you ask for , when paralleling them.

That beast cost me about 1000$ total with shipping and customs.

Doc

Is my assumption correct that the brushes in these motors present a restriction to their performance (limiting peak current to prevent burnup or commutator destruction)? Or maybe the brushes are OK up till the point the motor saturates anyway?

Punx0r said:

Is my assumption correct that the brushes in these motors present a restriction to their performance (limiting peak current to prevent burnup or commutator destruction)? Or maybe the brushes are OK up till the point the motor saturates anyway?

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Actually their main limitation seem to be the plasma that jump and cook and melt every conductive part near the commutator. some use nitrogen purge to extinguish these. If you take a look to the John Miata drag racing setup you will see that he installed couple copper pipe near the motor to bring the nitrogen to the commutator/brush area and reduce arcing/plasma. they are using hig performance brushes and varnish on the winding. At 400V and 3000A , a brushed motor would normally look like a fireball!!

I guess they will go brushless sometime, maybe as more large OEM brushless motors become available.

Punx0r said:

I guess they will go brushless sometime, maybe as more large OEM brushless motors become available.

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I doubt it. In case you didn't get it, efficiency and range aren't what these guys are after. Pound for pound, brushed DC motors make unbeatable stall torque.

Hopefully, owners of these cars use that torque to wrap themselves around lampposts and highway abutments instead of murdering other people.

Chalo said:

I doubt it. In case you didn't get it, efficiency and range aren't what these guys are after. Pound for pound, brushed DC motors make unbeatable stall torque.

Hopefully, owners of these cars use that torque to wrap themselves around lampposts and highway abutments instead of murdering other people.

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:lol: ..I doubt that Chalo, most of these HiPo DC systems as described are strictly built for competition use on the track.
Z22 maybe one exception for road legal, but with that performance and that pack,...he won't be driving far ! :wink:

Punx0r said:

I guess they will go brushless sometime, maybe as more large OEM brushless motors become available.

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I would say controllers. You can buy 400 V, 3000 A controller for 10000$ new or half of that used, but AC... No way. You can always find big industrial AC motor, they are more common than big DC motors.

Punx0r said:

I guess they will go brushless sometime, maybe as more large OEM brushless motors become available.

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Or when Colin Kidder and his team figure out how to hack the Tesla Model S drivetrain(I may end up joining them). It would be interesting to put a salvaged Model S P85D powertrain into a modified Subaru Justy, with enough batteries to make all 690 horsepower... and keep her under 2,000 lbs and all decrepit looking like some cheap s***tbox hatchback, cosmetic rust and peeling paint included, so one can go picking on million-dollar exotics.

Hillhater said:

:lol: ..I doubt that Chalo, most of these HiPo DC systems as described are strictly built for competition use on the track.
Z22 maybe one exception for road legal, but with that performance and that pack,...he won't be driving far ! :wink:

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My electric Triumph GT6 uses a modified Prestolite MTC4001 motor, but the motivation behind my choice was reduced conversion cost. That motor was only $500, had been modified to run at 216V and was run up to 400A at that voltage, and theoretically has enough continuous power to keep me going down the highway at almost 100 mph, *if* I run it at 192V and get the aerodynamic modifications of the car correct... It hasn't been driven more than 40 mph or so yet, and neither the car nor me are "legal". It now has a 208V 100AH CALB CA100FI LiFePO4 pack and a Soliton 1 in it. I will be running the controller with a 600A battery limit, 680A motor limit, and 192V motor limit, which should give me about 120 horsepower or so; I could run it up to 1,000A if I wanted to, but my car probably wouldn't be able to take it without breaking. The Soliton 1 cost me $2,995 back in 2012, so $3,500 total for motor+controller. A comparable performance AC setup today would run me close to $10,000, although there are the HPEVS setups that make like 90 horsepower and 100 lb-ft that go for ~$5,000.

In high volume, per kW, an AC motor + inverter should be cheaper to produce than a comparable DC setup, but we aren't at a high enough volume yet.

I'm guessing there are a bunch of totalled Leaf's and GM Spark's around if you really wanted a AC drive package at a DIY price.
The problem is ( as with the Tesla). hacking the control systems to operate outside their native home.
DC just seems to me so much better supported for DIY use
..but with used prices, zero interest, and low lease rates, you may as well just run the whole original vehicle !

Hillhater said:

..but with used prices, zero interest, and low lease rates, you may as well just run the whole original vehicle !

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Only if you're willing to settle for range and performance that matches some of the better performing DIY lead acid conversions from the 1990s...

If you theoretically put a Leaf pack and drive system in a 1st gen Toyota MR2, any Triumph GT6 or Triumph Spitfire, 1st gen Honda Insight, 1st gen Mazda RX7, Honda CRX, Saab Sonnet, Fiat 850 Spyder, Beck Speedster, or something similarly efficient from a weight and aerodynamic standpoint, 130+ miles range at 60 mph and 0-60 mph in under 6 seconds, if you can get the traction, is pretty much a given... and we haven't even talked about aeromods yet!

This Zombie 222, getting a 50 mile range on a charge with the 17.8 kWh pack it has, isn't that much worse than a Nissan Leaf, from an efficiency standpoint... Given the decent size pack a Leaf has, getting a meagre 80-100 mile range off of a 24 kWh pack seems such a waste, especially compared to Alan Cocconi's 130-mile range 0-60 mph in 7 second 16 kWh AGM-powered CRX built in 1990, or Dick Finley's 120 mile range flooded lead acid powered Toyota XtraCab conversion built in 1998 named "Red Beastie."

As far as range per dollar spent and performance per dollar spent, it's still possible to do much better than a Leaf or Spark going the DIY route now that we have off the shelf LiFePO4 batteries available that are 5 times as energy dense and a similar cost per kWh ratio with lead acid, although you may have to give up a lot in the way of creature comforts due to few off the shelf EV-compatible solutions available.

These CALB LiFePO4 batteries are magic. You know what they make possible?

Dare I say, 800+ miles range per charge, in the right donor, and the CALB LiFePO4 have perhaps 1/3 the density of the better batteries on the market that Tesla is now using! How is that? Dave Cloud built a 200 mile range @ 70 mph streamliner out of a reinforced Geo Metro, powered by flooded lead acid batteries and DC motors. The same weight in LiFePO4 batteries would yield roughly 4x the range, since they are 4x as dense as lead acid. The CALBs are of similar density to the batteries used in the Leaf.

An 80 mile range Nissan Leaf using batteries 4x as dense as those primitive lead acid ones that yielded a better range in the EVs of the 1990s shows that the major players in the auto industry really aren't trying yet. It's little wonder that the OEM EVs rapidly depreciate, other than the Teslas...

Tc, it depends what you want your EV to do.
Most DIY folk are looking to build a low cost commuter or fun car that doesn't need gas to keep it moving.
If they had the money, and wanted performance they would probably all buy Tesla's
If you are set on performance then there are options even for a Leaf...
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=63982&start=0
And I'm sure there will be similar "hot rod" mods for Spark drive trains too.
Please be real, we all know Z22 can only do 50 miles at a steady, cruise. If he uses any of that potential performance, he would suck that 17 kWhr pack dry before he got to the end of the street !
...and if he put a Lifepo4 pack in Z22 he would not be able to get anything like the performance he has.
The only advantage Lifepo4 has is availability, and ease of construction. In nearly all other metrics of battery performance it has been superceeded.