Kick and Stand scooters...

[Ykick]

or KASS for short:

After 4 years pouring money into a Goped ESR750 for serious commuting and having numerous issues & problems ignored by PMW I finally put together something that's more efficient, quieter, faster, safer, lighter and simpler. Oh yeah, it's way cheaper and the frame hasn't broken yet like my ESR...



If anybody wants a deal on a ESR750 with many extras - check for sale forum...

[Ykick]

And since that one went so well I tried a 26" version:

[Lock]

Speaking of kicking, and platform height/ground clearance... I believe you mentioned elsewhere another design (KickbikeTM?) where you felt the ground clearance was not enough? I am only used to the Currie scoots w/4" of clearance and another 3.5" to the top of the deck... Not optimal for kicking when compared to the Kickbike, Xootr etc... So I can thin the deck down a bit moving from SLA bricks to 10Ah LiFePO4 tubes plus I'm moving the underside one inch closer to the pavement... I know that on rare occasions the Currie would scrape over a very high curb, but never had a problem otherwise... So I'm thinking that 3" will be OK. Again, I am used to regular routes where I know all the hazards and 99% of pavements in my hood would do a babies bottom justice...
How much ground clearance on that 26" bike please?
Lock

[Ykick]

I was going to power a FootBike brand with 700cc front wheel and 18" rear. The plan was to install an 18" 48v 1000W cast wheel from Conhismotor. I actually ordered the bike before realizing it used 65mm rear dropout width. Obviously, that wasn't going to work but when the FootBike arrive I realized it was much lower than the 26" Sidewalker and for that reason alone wouldn't have been an ideal candidate.

As you can see from my photo ground clearance is an inherent problem with these setups - about 2" but other than true speed bumps I rarely touch ground. I'm working with an engineer to design/build a custom frame with ground clearance being one area of improvement. These will never have clearance like a mountain bike but at least I will incorporate a serious skidplate which should provide some peace of mind when those bumps in the road happen.

Other frame improvements will be folding connection at the deck/downtubes so that this can be easily transported in a hatchback and possibly battery boxes incorporated into the downtubes? Lipo or Life they'll need to be protected and housed someplace so once a battery system is devised a custom frame will move forward.

[Lock]

I've left the pack in the deck... intended to keep the weight down low plus designed as a cassette for easy removal - charge anywhere (charger built in) plus fast swaps. The thing I noticed about the Currie designs is that the weight of the pack and a good chunk of the frame etc is actually slung *below* axle height, like a persons weight in a hammock. I'm *guessing* this helps make the scoots more stable at slow speeds, despite other expert opinion on ES about COG etc for larger motorbikes where higher COG actually improves handling... But at the slow(er) speeds I care about I don't believe it's a concern... Not into high-speed cornering!

16S cells physically in one "string" side-by-side to promote consistent temperatures for each cell. Pack insulated and heated too for cold ambient temps (which Wet Coast folks don't have to worry about so much...hehe.)
Lock

[vanilla ice]

How hard would it be to fit a couple of plastic side rails.. like the skateboarders sometimes use. That would help with the curb scraping. You could slide right from one tire to the other instead of getting hung up on steel. I may have to try that.

[Ykick]

I should eleaborate more on the clearance measurements... 2" is where you can see those downtubes poking out the bottom at the front of the frame. They could be trimmed off but since they're so close to the front wheel when the wheel meets a bump, it raises that section up the same amount that the wheel rises. The result is that it rarely hits anything at that point unless it's an abrupt drop-off like a curb or steps. Measuring behind those downtubes I have about 3"-4" on the side rails and when I do scrape something, that's where it usually contacts.

My deck height measures about 5"-6" front to back. I actually used a 1/-2" spacer to raise the back of the deck a little because I wanted to clear the cantelever brake caliper. I have no problem kicking at that height - kicking is not the primary propulsion anyway - so I'm not too picky about an ideal height.

I always thought low center of gravity to be ideal but I wanted to keep my deck as low as possible. In practice I don't mind the batteries on either side of the downtubes and that's with SLA on the 20" - 26" has 40S F cell NiMh. Once I have a lighter pack ironed-out I think the downtubes will still be my final choice for battery/BMS location. Ideally, waterproof and mount the controller and charger under the deck in between the sidetubes.

Hey Vanilla! Yeah, I've been looking at some rugged nylon type industrial material for skid protection. But to be honest, even on horrific NYC streets I have very few scrapes to show for the 1000 or so miles I've ridden so far. By this time I've learned to judge what I can clear and since the major advantage of this design is being able to transition from riding to walking in an instant, I simply step-off and walk over anything I think might hit. Or, when I'm not sure - just slow a bit and kick enough to take my weight off the deck as I pass over something suspect. That way, if it does strike it won't have my entire weight bearing down on the rig.

[v_tach]

I love the kick-bike conversions. I'd still like to tackle a similar project someday. Just seems the larger tires and simplicity of a hub motor would make a great commuter.

[Lock]

Hi chekola
Watts a "knee rest" pls? Any pics/links?
tks
LocK

[Lock]

Missing a leg? Sporting a cast yerself?

[Lock]

`Kay. Gotcha... I inherited Dupuytren's contracture and am part of the lucky 10% with it in my feet. So it only helps me, to walk plus kick a scoot...

But yah, a seat or knee rest should be an easy add on.

Lock

[Lock]

...wouldnt exactly gel well with my badass image to be seen with kiddy wheels...

Waitasec... you calling our badass rides "kiddie" wheels???? Get outta here!

Three wheels could work, w/the two in front and one only in back (thinking about kicking here, so keeping the back end small/out of the way.)

I do see a lot of *real* kiddie wheels designed this way as tiny plastic scoots w/two fron wheels. But I only have experience w/two wheels so no idea how well it'd work full-size and at higher speeds, unEVen pavements etc... Maybe independent suspension for the front two...

The only attraction for three wheels for me is the ability for the scoot to stand unattended. No kickstand needed.

Lock

[Lock]

I bought two of these to play with:
http://www.xootr.com/xootr-kick-scooter-wheels.html


`Cause of the claimed low rolling resistance:


...this just to keep the back end off the ground w/front wheel 16" hub motor

Lock

[Ykick]

I have a 26" Sidewalker City kick bike which looks exactly like what you have. I would like to install a similar motor but I'm not sure how to get started. I like your clean and uncluttered setup. The only thing I would relocate is the battery or controller because I need the whole deck floor since I want to plant my 2 feet when coasting. Kicking would still be my main propulsion so I just need the motor to help on gentle hills so I can the glide down using gravity. I just want to use it in parks and bike paths. So my main requirements are light weight and range instead of power and torque. I would appreciate some leads on how to get started and where to buy the motor.

Thanks much.

Fil

Hi Fil,

I got your PM but figured it would be better for everybody if I just replied to this old thread. I haven't been doing much kick scootering for my commute - roads are too harsh in NYC - full suspension mountain bike gets most of my miles lately.

But electric Kick scooters are fun and the simplicity can't be beat. Sidewalker uses 100mm rear dropouts so a front hub motor fits perfectly in the rear wheel. FYI - Kickbike and Footbike use 65mm width.

I use either Conhismotor or Nine Continent direct drive hub motors. They don't drag too bad but there's a little bit of cogging so if you're really serious about kick propulsion you may want to look into a geared hub motor which would completely eliminate cogging while losing a few pounds too.

The batteries in that photo are the old 13Ah NiMh pack and I rarely use those anymore. I've moved on to RC Lipo which are much lighter and smaller for the same effective AH capacity.

45-50V I get around 25 MPH. I always use the 1 mile per AH guesstimate but in practice it usually works out closer to 2 miles per AH. But in the game of EV transport it never hurts to err on the side of too much capacity rather than too little.

Sidewalker City is good platform for decent surfaces - flexes nicely but the frame will scrape going over moderate speed bumps and worse if the front wheel drops into a large pothole. I've gotta Level III Acromioclavical separation to show for it.

I always wanted to spread the bottom tubes enough to squeeze the controller and/or stuff Lipo in there? I used an old skateboard deck to enlarge the platform. I've got big feet and there's plenty of room.

Questions? Fire away. I never really do the build threads because I'm not really building. More of an assembly/rework type and limited workspace for true fabrication but I'm happy to share whatever I can to help you along with your project.

All best...

[sk8norcal]

I saw this site and found it interesting because it the first company Ive seen that do 4 wheels.
http://fuzionscooter.com/products/cityglide

i have a earlier version called quadcarver,
I know the inventor, he is local.
http://wackyboards.blogspot.com/2009/07 ... arver.html
they have an electric one also for kids, with a single rear driven wheel, and two wheels in the frt

[Filibogado]

I have a 26" Sidewalker City kick bike which looks exactly like what you have. I would like to install a similar motor but I'm not sure how to get started. I like your clean and uncluttered setup. The only thing I would relocate is the battery or controller because I need the whole deck floor since I want to plant my 2 feet when coasting. Kicking would still be my main propulsion so I just need the motor to help on gentle hills so I can the glide down using gravity. I just want to use it in parks and bike paths. So my main requirements are light weight and range instead of power and torque. I would appreciate some leads on how to get started and where to buy the motor.

Thanks much.

Fil

Hi Fil,

I got your PM but figured it would be better for everybody if I just replied to this old thread. I haven't been doing much kick scootering for my commute - roads are too harsh in NYC - full suspension mountain bike gets most of my miles lately.

But electric Kick scooters are fun and the simplicity can't be beat. Sidewalker uses 100mm rear dropouts so a front hub motor fits perfectly in the rear wheel. FYI - Kickbike and Footbike use 65mm width.

I use either Conhismotor or Nine Continent direct drive hub motors. They don't drag too bad but there's a little bit of cogging so if you're really serious about kick propulsion you may want to look into a geared hub motor which would completely eliminate cogging while losing a few pounds too.

The batteries in that photo are the old 13Ah NiMh pack and I rarely use those anymore. I've moved on to RC Lipo which are much lighter and smaller for the same effective AH capacity.

45-50V I get around 25 MPH. I always use the 1 mile per AH guesstimate but in practice it usually works out closer to 2 miles per AH. But in the game of EV transport it never hurts to err on the side of too much capacity rather than too little.

Sidewalker City is good platform for decent surfaces - flexes nicely but the frame will scrape going over moderate speed bumps and worse if the front wheel drops into a large pothole. I've gotta Level III Acromioclavical separation to show for it.

I always wanted to spread the bottom tubes enough to squeeze the controller and/or stuff Lipo in there? I used an old skateboard deck to enlarge the platform. I've got big feet and there's plenty of room.

Questions? Fire away. I never really do the build threads because I'm not really building. More of an assembly/rework type and limited workspace for true fabrication but I'm happy to share whatever I can to help you along with your project.

All best...

Hi there!

I'm the guy who posted this, but I couldn't follow through earlier because I had open heart surgery in the meantime. Now that I've recovered, I'd like to pick up where I left off. I'm inclined to get the Conhis kit which has a kettle tube battery and a 500 watt direct drive motor for $500, about half the cost of the Amped kit.

Shown below is a photo of my Sidewalker, which I mistakenly labeled as a City Walker in a related post.

Any advice would be appreciated. I prefer range to speed or torque. Thanks!

Fil