battery range

recumpence · Apr 4, 2014

Hey guys,

My board is 6s 15 amphour and my range is around 10 miles. This is more than enough for me. But it seems like other guys are seeing far more range per amphour. My motors run nice and cool. So, it is not an efficiency issue. The board is geared for 26 mph top speed and is ridden at 15 mph most of the time. I weigh 170 pounds.

Could this be because I am running twin motors?

What range are you getting on your boards and what battery capacity are you running?

Matt

torqueboards · Apr 4, 2014

I'm running dual 50mm motors on 6S 5000mah and get about 6-8 miles on rough riding. If I was more gentle I might be able to get about 10-12 miles for a full charge. My gearing is setup for 21.5 mph.

beto_pty · Apr 4, 2014

6s 5400 mah batteries give me 9.5-10.5k full throttle 80% time... braking 10% of the time...coasting 10%
i weigh 190 lbs on flat ground with a single 6364 Tacon, max speed recorded 42.5 kph
Could have easily done 13 km coasting 50% and taking it easy... but I like fast better..
Check the timing.. seems to me that I get faster rides (and less range) in higer motor timing, so you might want to look into that...
Abec 7s 9s or ceramic ball bearings will probably help..
Maybe your motors are fighting each other ? each one trying the time/rotate at a speed slightly diiffferent than the other? fOR Example The right wheel being 1mm in diameter smaller will probably pass tolerance at the wheel factory but may be making your motors fuss as one is pulling more than the other which is still drawing current??

superpef · Apr 4, 2014

Getting ~13 km of moderate riding with a couple hills in the way running 7s 5800 mAh on a dual 5065 setup. Motors stay cool enough to touch with the tongue lol

Silenthunter · Apr 4, 2014

I have a dual 6374-192 kv geared to 23-25 miles/h peed and with 24amps I get about the same range. Rear engine uses 0.5 amps per mile and the front around 0.75 amps/mile. I am upgrading my board to Li-ion batteries and I am sure the range will extend.

recumpence · Apr 5, 2014

Wow, I must be getting old.......

I was doing the math wrong. My range is 15 miles....... I was calculating based on 10ah not 15.

It's all good.

Matt

made_in_the_alps_legacy · Apr 5, 2014

Fyi, a quick summary after calculating [Wh/km] from all your posts :

-Torqueboard: 7 [Wh/km]
-silenthunter: 10 [Wh/km]
-Superpef: 11 [Wh/km]
-beto_pty: 12 [Wh/km]
-Recumpense: 15 [Wh/km]

Measured between 10 to 15 [Wh/km] on mine with gps and powermeter depending on speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58329

recumpence · Apr 5, 2014

made_in_the_alps_legacy said:
Fyi, a quick summary after calculating [Wh/km] from all your posts :

-Torqueboard: 7 [Wh/km]
-silenthunter: 10 [Wh/km]
-Superpef: 11 [Wh/km]
-beto_pty: 12 [Wh/km]
-Recumpense: 15 [Wh/km]

Measured between 10 to 15 [Wh/km] on mine with gps and powermeter depending on speed

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58329

Actually I just calculated my efficiency at 18.8wh per mile. Not bad.

I am running 15mm wide belts to handle the power. I bet moving to 9mm belts would give quite a boost in efficiency.

Matt

zener · Apr 5, 2014

Wh/km means little to nothing when you not say the average km/h.

recumpence · Apr 5, 2014

zener said:
Wh/km means little to nothing when you not say the average km/h.

I mentioned that in my first post. I average 15mph.

Matt

made_in_the_alps_legacy · Apr 5, 2014

zener said:
Wh/km means little to nothing when you not say the average km/h.

Wh/km has at least more meaning than Ah/km. It's quite obvious when u see how consistent the results are,
U can also feel free to assume the ones having the lowest Wh/km are not riding as fast as the others, who cares

My 15Wh/km have been measured along a flat ride @ 35,4km/h Average speed and 49.7km/h top speed
- Multiplying Wh/km with km/h gives Watts:
35 x 15=525W
50 x 15=750W
- Knowing the powermeter Wp reading of 1000W under those peak conditions helps guessing a 75% efficiency for wheel, transmssion, motor and esc
-or, Dividing Wh, (=Ah x V), of the battery by Wh/km gives a guess which distance can be ridden, in km:
111 / 15=7.5km
111 / 10=11.1km

@ Matt: 18.8 Wh/miles x 15 miles/h = 282 W …
@ Torqueboard: 11 Wh/miles x 20 miles/h = 220 W …
@ beto_pty: 12 Wh/km x 40 km/h = 480 W …

beto_pty · Apr 6, 2014

Woohoo That makes me the Wattiest! 8)
So many other variables as well.. the weight ranges I assume go from 160 lbs to my 200 lbs...
Alps to flatlands...
9mm belts to 15 mm belts (wonder if my chains would fare better or worse....)
Tire durometer/bearings
Glass poured asphalt versus the horrible stick flattened concrete we have here...
Wobble between geared wheel setups....

Silenthunter · Apr 6, 2014

Guys,

The numbers I posted were from Lifepo4 pack - plus extra weight due to the cold weather. I am sure with the new pack - 18650 (much smaller and lighter) you get much better range. Also not sure if matters the numbers I posted were with hills and bad terrain

Silenthunter · Apr 6, 2014

just realized that My goped had a 24 amp pack. I usually only carry 12 amps with the longboard ( 8 headway cells with 12Ah in series) so the numbers should change a bit. Once it gets warmer I will test with my 18650 pack.

recumpence · Apr 6, 2014

I have been experimenting and I am at 15.5wh per mile now. Loosening the belts made quite a difference. I bet 9mm wide belts would have a similar affect.

Matt

torqueboards · Apr 6, 2014

recumpence said:
I have been experimenting and I am at 15.5wh per mile now. Loosening the belts made quite a difference. I bet 9mm wide belts would have a similar affect.

Matt

For that reason I wonder if it's worth it to switch to 15mm belts?

recumpence · Apr 6, 2014

torqueboards said:
recumpence said:

I have been experimenting and I am at 15.5wh per mile now. Loosening the belts made quite a difference. I bet 9mm wide belts would have a similar affect.

Matt

Click to expand...

For that reason I wonder if it's worth it to switch to 15mm belts?

It may all depend on torque loading and whether or not belt skip is an issue with a narrower belt.

Matt

torqueboards · Apr 6, 2014

recumpence said:
It may all depend on torque loading and whether or not belt skip is an issue with a narrower belt. Matt

Should be fine with that said. I still wonder why all eboard manufacturers - Evolve/Boosted choose to use 15mm. I assume it's
due to just preventing user error and being more reliable.

recumpence · Apr 6, 2014

torqueboards said:
recumpence said:

It may all depend on torque loading and whether or not belt skip is an issue with a narrower belt. Matt

Click to expand...

Should be fine with that said. I still wonder why all eboard manufacturers - Evolve/Boosted choose to use 15mm. I assume it's
due to just preventing user error and being more reliable.

Less wear?

made_in_the_alps_legacy · Apr 6, 2014

beto_pty said:
Woohoo That makes me the Wattiest! 8)
So many other variables as well.. the weight ranges I assume go from 160 lbs to my 200 lbs...
9mm belts to 15 mm belts (wonder if my chains would fare better or worse....)

I guess there are different levels of relevance... I would at least mention the "low Voltage Cut off" of the ESC I had to adjust to effectively see 5Ah being charged by my charger into the battery after a ride.
I would guess the chain transmission are better than belt assuming they use a rolling assembly involving no flexion like on a belt... I think, soon or later, one should try to make a gear drive...

recumpence · Apr 7, 2014

Ahh, I also need to add, then, that my range is based on 12ah useable battery (80% of a 15ah pack) for safety margin.

Matt

melodious · Apr 7, 2014

made_in_the_alps_legacy said:
beto_pty said:

Woohoo That makes me the Wattiest! 8)
So many other variables as well.. the weight ranges I assume go from 160 lbs to my 200 lbs...
9mm belts to 15 mm belts (wonder if my chains would fare better or worse....)

Click to expand...

I would guess the chain transmission are better than belt assuming they use a rolling assembly involving no flexion like on a belt... I think, soon or later, one should try to make a gear drive...

How about a dual diagonal or 4x all wheel skateboard hub motor. It has been talked about here that a hub motor the size of skate wheels is in the realm of the possible. That would open up board tricks reserved for non motored boards :idea:

recumpence · Apr 7, 2014

melodious said:
made_in_the_alps_legacy said:

beto_pty said:

Woohoo That makes me the Wattiest! 8)
So many other variables as well.. the weight ranges I assume go from 160 lbs to my 200 lbs...
9mm belts to 15 mm belts (wonder if my chains would fare better or worse....)

Click to expand...

I would guess the chain transmission are better than belt assuming they use a rolling assembly involving no flexion like on a belt... I think, soon or later, one should try to make a gear drive...

Click to expand...

How about a dual diagonal or 4x all wheel skateboard hub motor. It has been talked about here that a hub motor the size of skate wheels is in the realm of the possible. That would open up board tricks reserved for non motored boards

How would that open up the possibility of tricks? The board will weigh the same. I do not understand what you are getting at.

Matt

melodious · Apr 8, 2014

recumpence said:
How would that open up the possibility of tricks? The board will weigh the same. I do not understand what you are getting at.

Matt

Your right. I just think if the RC motor was removed you could be free to perform dropoffs (think halfpipes & bowls). Also, batteries & ESC on the board will make ollies impossible, unless you put them on your body (fannypack or backpack). I'm not even sure how bigger phase wires could be routed in the wheels.

Just spewing stuff. It's been so damn long since I've had a semi decent surf session that when a thread about Eboards shows itself, I want to absorb as much as I can. I'll probably begin an Eboard build before an Ebike build because it's a simpler electric system with respect to battery power & current control. And I really need to progress to RC power.

666yeti666 · Apr 10, 2014

recumpence said:
Hey guys,

My board is 6s 15 amphour and my range is around 10 miles. This is more than enough for me. But it seems like other guys are seeing far more range per amphour. My motors run nice and cool. So, it is not an efficiency issue. The board is geared for 26 mph top speed and is ridden at 15 mph most of the time. I weigh 170 pounds.

Could this be because I am running twin motors?

What range are you getting on your boards and what battery capacity are you running?

Matt

An ESC has increasing efficiency when it is more driven towards full throttle. Of course this is not possible. However, most of the time you only use a little above 1/2 throttle. Also you have those losses 2 times for both ESC's. I would go up in gear ratio, so the topspeed will go down and you have to give more throttle for your 15mph topspeed so the ESC's will become more efficient. Due to the higher gear ratio you will have more torque as well.

Furthermore all the losses , in the belt, ESC, motor are doubled with a dual drive.

For an efficient electric longboard it makes more sense to go to a single drive is my guess.

By the way, my single drive will consume 375mA/km with an average speed of 15km/h.

regards
Sebastien

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