paultrafalgar
10 kW
One way to miss the traffic jams:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/sunseeker-2-solar-airplane-flying-over-europe.php
8)
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/02/sunseeker-2-solar-airplane-flying-over-europe.php
8)
Sunseeker II solar powered glider
- Thread starter paultrafalgar
- Start date
deronmoped
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 706
I noticed he put the vertical tail fin underneath so as to not block the sun.
I wonder if they had to use the super expensive high efficiency cells they use on satellites. If they can get away with using the cheaper photovoltaic cells, I would expect to see more and more of these gliders in the near future.
Deron.
I wonder if they had to use the super expensive high efficiency cells they use on satellites. If they can get away with using the cheaper photovoltaic cells, I would expect to see more and more of these gliders in the near future.
Deron.
etard
100 kW
That is the dream! I wonder what kind of battery and motor he uses. Amazing!
EMF
100 kW
I still think that the airplane represents one of mans greatest achievements. A heavier than air flying machine. A machine that can fly and safely carry a man with it. It shows we can realize our wildest dreams. The icing on the cake, ( for me) is the puzzle of controlled flight was solved by two bicycle mechanics. 8)
They developed the 3 axis control system that is still used to this day to achieve controlled flight. They were up against the greatest minds of their day and all of history. Not to mention the US government and all its money and access. Yet they prevailed on their own wits, logic and determination. They also invented the wind tunnel and even the propeller, realizing that it too, was a wing. My two problem solving heroes - the Wright Brothers.
Having said that, this solar iteration is a thing of beauty! What a great post.
They developed the 3 axis control system that is still used to this day to achieve controlled flight. They were up against the greatest minds of their day and all of history. Not to mention the US government and all its money and access. Yet they prevailed on their own wits, logic and determination. They also invented the wind tunnel and even the propeller, realizing that it too, was a wing. My two problem solving heroes - the Wright Brothers.
Having said that, this solar iteration is a thing of beauty! What a great post.
lawsonuw
1 kW
Now do the same thing with a small blimp/dirigible and you'll never have to land! (well, except for food...)
Lawson
Lawson
Lock
100 MW
lawsonuw said:
...something like this?
Pic taken from the Sunseeker site:
http://solar-flight.com/sunship.html
Nice vid of the Sunseeker II crossing the Alps in April 2009:
http://vimeo.com/4510853
The Sunseeker site mentions "Lithium battery systems support from Air Energy"
http://www.airenergy.de/html/index_english.html
...who sell the AE-1 Silent:
View attachment AE-1_Silent.JPG
Described as having a 13kW motor, 3400rpm (prop at 1300rpm) and 8.5kg. Pack 4.1kWh, weighing 35kg.
If I understand the AE-1 specs correctly, it can travel for one km on 60W... I'll guess the Sunseeker has a system similar to the AE-1
tks
Lock
AussieJester
1 TW
Lock said:
Now THATS very cool why don't we see more air ships they were all the rage in the 1980's then died out, big Brewery Company here Swan Brewery (once owned by the man that finaced the Austrlia II campaign in 1983 that successfully wtook the Americas Cup from you yanks for the first time in over 100 years
in fact..Alan Bond..so he was later jailed for coporate fraud but thats another matter altogether hes a HERO ) he had a blimp that was always up and flying about, haven't seen one in yeeeeears. I guess the whole landing in high winds moving it about and the size of the hanger required would be a big factor?KiM
lawsonuw
1 kW
AussieJester said:Now THATS very cool why don't we see more air ships they were all the rage in the 1980's then died out, big Brewery Company here Swan Brewery (once owned by the man that finaced the Austrlia II campaign in 1983 that successfully wtook the Americas Cup from you yanks for the first time in over 100 years
KiM
The "never having to land" part of a solar airship should mitigate any issues with high wind landing and hangar space. I remember seeing some short films from the 1930ish that showed an airship launching and retrieving airplanes. Should be possible on a large airship to fit it with a hangar and a couple of ferry planes to transport passengers, provisions, and wastes between the airship and any nearby airport. Hm... might want a really good autonomous or remote autopilot system. Keeping a pilot on duty 24/7/365 could get expensive.
Lawson
AussieJester
1 TW
lawsonuw said:
Would this be possible though, no they wouldnt need to land for "charging" as the sun does that, but wouldnt they need to top the blimp off with helium? Hellium filled ballons go down over a few days wouldnt a airship do the same? I have no idea about the properties of helium perhaps one of the better ed-u-bic-ated ones can chip in here
KiM
The world-record breaking balloon had an interesting hybrid design. If you use only helium, you have less control and you can only carry a small amount of replentishment compressed gas on-board in cylinders. If the clouds part and the sun heats up the balloon too much (balloon skin has lots of surface area) you have to vent some gas off.
Then later at night the balloon cools down a lot and the volume contracts, so you sink. Hot air heated by burning diesel with a propane pilot light provides the most bang for your buck in the most compact fuel storage, but still not quite good enough to circle the globe.
The hybrid balloon had a sealed outer shell-envelope with helium fo most of the baseline lift and also as insulation. The central inner balloon was hot air that could be vented or heated for altitude control. So now that we've crossed the country using a tiny amount of fuel for lift and solar-electric for directional control and propulsion, how do we easily off-load passengers?
During WWII the east coast had two helium-filled dirigibles for anti-submarine patrol. The lower half of the craft in the center was the operations compartments. Although mono-winged planes had been invented for their lower drag and higher top speed, Biplanes launched from the dirigibles were used for their excellent fuel mileage and slow stall speed for deploying and retrieval.
A hook would be lowered into the air and the biplane pilot would fly a large top-ring onto the hook. If he missed, he would just circle around for another go. Once hooked, the plane was winched up into the hangar.
Sadly they were both destroyed in two separate hurricanes that they were unable to climb above or outrun.
Then later at night the balloon cools down a lot and the volume contracts, so you sink. Hot air heated by burning diesel with a propane pilot light provides the most bang for your buck in the most compact fuel storage, but still not quite good enough to circle the globe.
The hybrid balloon had a sealed outer shell-envelope with helium fo most of the baseline lift and also as insulation. The central inner balloon was hot air that could be vented or heated for altitude control. So now that we've crossed the country using a tiny amount of fuel for lift and solar-electric for directional control and propulsion, how do we easily off-load passengers?
During WWII the east coast had two helium-filled dirigibles for anti-submarine patrol. The lower half of the craft in the center was the operations compartments. Although mono-winged planes had been invented for their lower drag and higher top speed, Biplanes launched from the dirigibles were used for their excellent fuel mileage and slow stall speed for deploying and retrieval.
A hook would be lowered into the air and the biplane pilot would fly a large top-ring onto the hook. If he missed, he would just circle around for another go. Once hooked, the plane was winched up into the hangar.
Sadly they were both destroyed in two separate hurricanes that they were unable to climb above or outrun.
AussieJester
1 TW
spinningmagnets said:
INGENIOUS hahaha you could have a solar powered glider to dump passengers, could even land to get more bottles of propane and return to the "mothership" !!!
Lock
100 MW
According to Wiki helium is a "limited" resource... Actually lots of it around esp.in the USA, but comes from natural gas fields, and only 3000 tonnes of new helium are created every year (by radioactive decay.) So it's sorta like hydrocarbons... We use `em up a lot faster than they were created. I know the toy helium balloons deflate after a while only `cause the helium atom (compared to "air" that's mostly nitrogen and oxygen molecules) is so small the rubber is porous to the helium...
tks
LocKk
tks
LocKk
Mr. Mik
1 kW
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2008
- Messages
- 390
spinningmagnets said:
That was exactly what came to my mind first: What about big storms?
Is there any new solution to this fundamental problem of any big, lighter than air aircraft?
I often watch stormfronts approach and pass where I live (east coast of Australia), the internet Radar shows that they are sometimes a thousand km long, and violent all along the way. And fast. And they keep on going and going out to sea. On some days they pop up without much warning in the weather forecast; and sometimes they don't appear although they were forecast. They seem to have the odd tornado in them, too.
Even a single strong thunderstorm can suck paragliders and hanggliders into the updraft from quite a distance, I can only imagine how bad that would be in a balloon or blimp!
By the way, hot air balloons are actually quite noisy!
They ferry tourist around all year round, and typically have to take off in the early morning hours, just at dawn, when it's otherwise quiet.
Two big petrol props blow air into the balloon lying flat on the ground, just as loud as an airplane at takeoff. Once the balloon is partly inflated by this propeller wind, the burner is turned on to heat the air and get it to lift off.
The, when it's up in the air, it can perfectly quietly sneak up on you; then suddenly turn on the burner with a roar that is many orders of magnitude louder than the still morning surrounds - it really can make you jump!
Films can be developed that are impervious to helium leakage, and also the blimps I mentioned did not have a hot-air option to provide a sudden lift in order to evade a fast-moving storm ( http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/ac-usn22/z-types/zrs5.htm ). The Hindenburg used cheap hydrogen as the US had control over most helium reserves and its scarcity made helium expensive. All that remains now is for some investor to build a hybrid Hot-air-inside/helium-outer-shell blimp with solar-PV charging to drive the directional propellors.
It could be funded through FEMA as a disaster area mobile low-orbit satellite comm-hub antenna platform (weather balloons were slapped together after Katrina for comm antennas) and would provide real-time domestic intel as a camera platform. Two of the hook planes could provide crew rotation and replentishment of propane/diesel for hot-air boost, and they can also act as escape pods for crew.
The Helios high-altitude solar-PV UAV uses electric-driven propellors to stay high above storms, so its do-able.
It could be funded through FEMA as a disaster area mobile low-orbit satellite comm-hub antenna platform (weather balloons were slapped together after Katrina for comm antennas) and would provide real-time domestic intel as a camera platform. Two of the hook planes could provide crew rotation and replentishment of propane/diesel for hot-air boost, and they can also act as escape pods for crew.
The Helios high-altitude solar-PV UAV uses electric-driven propellors to stay high above storms, so its do-able.
Mr. Mik
1 kW
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2008
- Messages
- 390
spinningmagnets said:
But it is unmanned.
For blimps to be a viable alternative to current aircraft, they need to allow both highly trained, fit and relatively young staff and passengers of all ages and fitness levels to fly in them (and survive any extreme high altitute storm evasion maneuvers which might be needed).
I'm not saying it cannot be done, but I am interested in the technological challenges that need to be met.
How high and how fast can an aircraft climb and how long can it stay up there with average people on board?
How high does it need to climb to get out of reach of most storms?
Can the cabin be able to be pressurized sufficiently to keep everyone from developing altitude sickness, but still be light enough?
