K2 FS MTB w/ HS3548 Crystalyte, Lyen Controller + 74V Lipo

The title states it all.

I have been riding this setup for about 2 months now.

Here is the full bike:
View attachment 7

Here is my Setup:
Bike: K2 Base 3.0 2008 Full Suspension. I believe
Motor: HS3548 from Ilia on ebikessf laced on 26 inch wheel
Tire: Schwable Big Apple 26x2.15
Controller: Crystalyte 12FET sensorless mod to support CA connector and 74V
Battery: 74V13.5Ah nanotech Lipo Battery (2* 10s) and (3*4.5Ah)
Rack: got it from Performance bike

Performance settings:
30A limit on CA

Top speed so far:
30A - 37-38mph flat
35A - 40-43mph flat
I have not tried any higher since I don't know if my FS frame can handle it.

Pros:
A) at 74V, it sure can pull.
B) 37mph solid at 30Amps limit on CA
C) Full suspension makes ride plush.

Cons:
A) 74V*30Ah MIGHT be too strong for the frame to handle.
B) Since my Lipo setup is really light, it can be really unstable due to wind at high speed. At 50mph downhill, it wobbles more than my other Hybrid bike with 30lbs battery in the rear.

Here are some more images:

Motor setup


battery setup

I just bought 37V4.5Ah Nanotech batteries from HK and wired it up all in parallel/series to get 74V13.5Ah. I decided to use XT60 connectors, but plan to migrate to Anderson due to difficulties plugging and removing XT60 connectors.


balance wires running to the front.
I have not completed this bike due to time constraint. I plan to run these balance leads to the front of the bike and connect 4 CellLog to it to monitor all the batteries


Front view.


Front Suspension. This one is 100mm travel I think. Either way it really helps with the cushy ride. Much better than my hard-tail ebike. I am never going to get another hard-tail ever again. haha


Manitou Rear Air Shocks. Again this helps with the cushy ride.


These tires really help with the cushy ride too due to its wide profile. I switched out my original Kenda WTB tires for these. It really helps on road.

All in all I think this is a good bike build.

A couple of more things to do on this bike:
A) Add Doctorbass's Torque arm so that I can go all out at 3.5KW of power
B) Switch to Lyen's 18FET controller for dead stop starting. Hopefully this also eliminates the oscillation of the sensorless controller
C) Add row of celllog monitor to monitor the Lipo
D) Switch the 74V13.5Ah setup to a 74V20Ah setup. I already have the battery. I just need the time to do it. Maybe carry the 74V13.5Ah in a hardcase backpack?

Now that I have experience with both gear and gearless motors here is my opinion on them:

BMC V3 Geared (1700 miles on it so far):
Noisier, This is due to the gears
Lower torque in my opinion, but maybe that is because I am running 74V vs 51.2V.
Excellent freewheeling.
Require lubricant on the motor after so many miles
More efficient. But that might be because I am running it with less power than the Crystalyte.

Here is the full review of my other ebike:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29194&p=454556&hilit=Transeo#p454556

Crystalyte HS3548 Gearless(300 miles on it so far):
Silent, though there is a high pitch winding noise at low speed.
Can handle more power.
More torque at startup and at high speed
Less efficient. See explanation above for more details.

If you guys have any questions, just let me know. I will be monitoring this thread.

Best of luck for other people building their ebikes

are the nanos really all that what kind of range are you gettin with the 13.5.ah. how are you going to get 20ah . im a nooby and i just got the 12fet lyen sensorless with a hs 3540 on my GT 26" hard tail,yes it does suck lol. i have 16 lbs of ping 48v15ah thats really wanting to stay home.im goin lipobut with 3 5ah zips 6s 3in series. the lyen is nice i have the setting at 18 amps and still do 20 mph easy . good lookin bike

mate, your wireing... wow. aren't you worried about a stray bush or tree snaging some and either disconnecting a battery without you knowing (potenially leading to having a 4.5 or 9ah in series with a 13.5) or yanking them so hard they damage the batteries? or crashing... I know newer lipo is apparently a bit safer puncture wise but I'd be getting em put into a protective case asap. And the balance leads, I'd go down to the local hardware/electronics shop and buy some 6 or 11 core wire (11 core is a pita to find, but 6 is common) and solder that up instead of using all those extension leads. it'd only take an hour or two and would be far safer, more reliable and look a bit better too.

The speed issue would be harder to solve, though moving the batts into the frame/beside the frame will help with the weight distribution. If you have the $$ get yourself some taller forks, or lower your rear suspension if you can, that will increase your rake angle and give you better stability at speed. Moving the batts will make a huge difference though - I can notice a big difference, and all I did was move them from my upper tube to the lower tube.


edit

how are the nanos performing though? ive beein eyeing em off for a while but the price is keeping me away....

botz244 said:

are the nanos really all that what kind of range are you gettin with the 13.5.ah.

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So far, I have not tested full discharge, i.e. from 4.2V to 3.0V. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery
I always charge to 4.1V and discharge to only 3.6V. This will hopefully increase my recharge cycle count.
In terms of range, the longest run I did was 10+10+3 miles, 23 miles total and I was about 3.6V per cell at the end. However, for that trip, I was not going super speed, but I was definitely NOT pedaling. I was averaging 20-25mph on that trip. The CA recorded around 10.3Ah used.

botz244 said:

how are you going to get 20ah .

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I bought 8 37V5Ah nanotech stick. Think of them as the long stick on the rear rack of the bike in the picture, but slightly longer. To get 74V20Ah, I need to parallel 4 each to get 2 pack of 37V20Ah Lipo battery packs. Afterwords, I would series them to get 74V20Ah pack, hence 8 Lipo sticks. Hopefully with the 20Ah, I can go much further. Keep in mind that I charge to 4.1V so that cuts a bit off the capacity. Probably ~200mAh is my guess. Then I don't fully discharge. I try to keep at least 20% of capacity in the battery at all time. Therefore, I am effectively only using 75% of the battery each recharge cycle. So if I have 20Ah, I can realistically get 15Ah out of these pack. Again all this because I charge to 4.1V and never below 3.6V no load.

botz244 said:

im goin lipobut with 3 5ah zips 6s 3in series. the lyen is nice i have the setting at 18 amps and still do 20 mph easy . good lookin bike

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That is a good place to start. Just know that you will have really short range if you do what I do (charge to 4.1V and never below 3.6V). Also zippy are not the same stuff as nanotech in my opinion. If they are rated at 20C, I recommend pulling at most 10C. So for you, 5*10 = 50A at most. Though I would probably go lower for more recharge cycle.
Good luck on your battery conversion.

sn0wchyld said:

mate, your wireing... wow. aren't you worried about a stray bush or tree snaging some and either disconnecting a battery without you knowing (potenially leading to having a 4.5 or 9ah in series with a 13.5) or yanking them so hard they damage the batteries? or crashing...

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Thanks for your concern. Yes I know about the possibility. But I am not worried about the bush or tree thing since I only ride on road with this. As for the connector dislodging, I doubt that since there is no pressure on them. I also use XT-60 connectors, which is a bitch removing. That includes the main battery lead to the controller too. This is why I will be moving to andersons just for the battery to controller leads to make it easier to remove. As for the crash, well, I think if I have any lipo setup, I will be Shit Out Of Luck. : )

sn0wchyld said:

I know newer lipo is apparently a bit safer puncture wise but I'd be getting em put into a protective case asap.

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keep in mind is this not a finished build. I just don't have time now because of school. But I will eventually put these somewhere else. The wiring looks too complicated on the rear and people might thing it is a bomb. : ) As for the hardcase, as long as you don't put pressure or subject them to shocks, you should be OK. Since this on my Full suspension bike, I don't worry too much.

sn0wchyld said:

And the balance leads, I'd go down to the local hardware/electronics shop and buy some 6 or 11 core wire (11 core is a pita to find, but 6 is common) and solder that up instead of using all those extension leads. it'd only take an hour or two and would be far safer, more reliable and look a bit better too.

Click to expand...

Also thanks for the concerns there. Those balance leads are only for the celllogs. Yes... if they short I am screwed, but then I would know when they dislodge. As for them shorting each other, I think it's hard to do. Yes, I have thought about wiring them to the front using 24 gauge wires, but I was too lazy to do it, so I just got a bunch of 5s connectors and daisy-chain them. : ) Eventually I will do this and probably enclose them in some rubber housing, but as of now, it's good.

sn0wchyld said:

The speed issue would be harder to solve, though moving the batts into the frame/beside the frame will help with the weight distribution. If you have the $$ get yourself some taller forks, or lower your rear suspension if you can, that will increase your rake angle and give you better stability at speed. Moving the batts will make a huge difference though - I can notice a big difference, and all I did was move them from my upper tube to the lower tube.

Click to expand...

Yeah I planning to move 4 of those stick semi-permantly to the frame and the other 4 to a new rear rack or somewhere. I definitely don't want them in my crotch area. : ) All in all the 17lbs of Lipo on the rack in nothing compared to my other 35lbs LiFePo4 battery on my other bike. I think the weight distribution will help with the stability, but to make it stable, I really need more weight on this bike. It is too light and the wind knocks me around too easily at 40mph+. As or the fork option, I am too poor after the nanotech to afford those. Maybe in a couple of years when I have more money, then I will build on with a a downhill fork to begin with.

sn0wchyld said:

how are the nanos performing though? ive beein eyeing em off for a while but the price is keeping me away....

Click to expand...

So far the nanos are pretty good. I charge them to 4.1V and never discharged them below 3.6V so far. I always balance charge. It takes longer, but I think in the end it's well worth it. No puffying or bad cells so far. They also stay very balance (all 20s) after each ride. I do have an expensive charge setup. I am using Progressive RC 500W power supply and 2 icharger 1010B+. It keeps my charging simple and charges fairly quickly. All I need to do is break up the 74V to 2 36V packs and then charge each on each of the icharger. Just be careful of the the balance leads and know which is which when you plug in the balance leads. The icharger does do some sensing and indication of errors if you do it wrong, but I would be careful myself. That way you are not killing anything if the icharger safety check fails.

Thanks for all the comments.

A quick update.

1) Upgraded to 74V20Ah Nanotech Lipo battery.
2) Migrated to the Lyen controller because I did not like the stuttering of the Crystalyte sensorless controller.
3) Removed the Lipo pack and now currently reside on in my backpack. I will eventually move it to the triangle section of my bike once I get some more parts and time.
4) Installed Doc's Torque Arm. Now I can full throttle from dead start without worrying the dropout cracking or breaking.

Testing:
Hardcore tested the new setup and it rides much better now since the battery is not in the rear section anymore. I took it offroad and ran over some serious bumps and rocks and still the motor is still fine. There were sections on the trails I was positive that the motor was damage, but it still worked and no sign of damage.

Temperature wise, I kept most of my hill climb short and always assisted. General rule for me was to keep it under 1KW if possible. Just assist it an everything is fine. In terms of top speed, I was able to get 42mph going against wind. So I am confident that I can hit close to 50mph if I up the current limit at bit to 35A vs 30A and ride when there is less head wind.

The only thing I don't like is the motor heating up if I use it continuous on flats. I don't see riding this bike continous until the battery runs out at 35A or even 30A because base on how fast it heats up on flats, I would probably not recommend it. Even the ebike simulator states it will burn up after 21minutes.

I will post more picture after this.

what kind of watt/hours and watt/miles are you getting. me and my 66 volt lyen sensorless ,the best is 26.6 and the worst so far 49 w/m the 26 is goin like 5 mph for 4 miles and the 49 slowed by 4 inches of wet snow and i have my setting the lowest 18 and 45 phase also i have a ton of winter gear and studds and like 25 psi.its nice to with the 3 6s in 18s. cant wait till summer.i def dont have all my wiring exposedme pics when i get home from a ride. my three lipos balanced always within.008 volts. plus i weght bout 250 without the cloths. the bike looks good oh its bout 10F right now

botz244 said:

what kind of watt/hours and watt/miles are you getting. me and my 66 volt lyen sensorless ,the best is 26.6 and the worst so far 49 w/m the 26 is goin like 5 mph for 4 miles and the 49 slowed by 4 inches of wet snow and i have my setting the lowest 18 and 45 phase also i have a ton of winter gear and studds and like 25 psi.its nice to with the 3 6s in 18s. cant wait till summer.i def dont have all my wiring exposedme pics when i get home from a ride. my three lipos balanced always within.008 volts. plus i weght bout 250 without the cloths. the bike looks good oh its bout 10F right now

Click to expand...

Not be offensive, but I had a hard time reading your reply. : )

botz244 said:

what kind of watt/hours and watt/miles are you getting

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-At 74V, I usually get around 50-60Watts/mile but that is full speed all the time at 30A limit. My other Hybrid bike gets around 40-45W/m and that is on 51.8V Lipo again full speed all the time. I think your setup is either more efficient, or you are not using it at max power all the time.

Hope you have a better time next spring/summer.

yep no offense taken . i cant go full throttle its winter time up here and 10f degrees ruts like no tomarrow . 5 to 10 max speed . theres no studdering with the lyen controller i can go 1 mph up hill and still nothin

Some more updates:

First off, this is not complete yet. I am still building some battery mount.

Added some fenders so I don't get wet riding over wet terrain

See pictures for full glory details.

Things still need to do:

1) Place nanotech battery on the center of the frame
2) Possibly mod the front fenders to make it fit better
3) Since the hub motor does not rotate true (the wheel rotates true), I might have to deform the rear disc to make it fit perfectly
4) Upgrade the Phase wires to be 10 gauge or 12 gauge