eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

[lesspedal]

Dman,
You will need to adjust your front derailer like this, http://bicycletutor.com/adjust-front-derailer/

You can always test a 200w hub bike here, don't mention you already have an e bike until after the test ride, make sure to try it on a decent hill.
http://www.electricbicycle.com.au/contact.html

[dman]

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Some other good tutorials on that website about using gears.

How have people gone with the battery? Is it easy to get a bigger battery using the same mounting or even add another battery in parellel to the system? When this battery dies is it as simple as replacing the cells inside, or do you need to buy a full battery again.

[lesspedal]

Best and easiest way to get another battery is from http://www.pingbattery.com, get 20 ah, could get you around 40 or 50 klms full throttle.
Another place to test 200w hub, http://www.evehicles.com.au/index.shtml?openmenu=5 knoxfield.
Try one out, I would love to hear how it compares to elation system.

[gibbo111]

I have just turned 3000km on my elation with about 120 recharges with the battery. So far so good , yesterday I did a 65km trip and the battery was close to empty but after a charge I measured it at 29.1v. No point getting a bigger battery unless you need the extra range and can justify carrying the extra weight . I could use a 15ah battery to give me some extra km. I wonder if you could instal a ping battery into our battery case otherwise it creates an issue on where to mount it- i like the set up now as its neat and out of the way. Anyone know where the batteries that come with the kit come from?

[lesspedal]

I doubt you could fit any more ah in the existing batt. case.

Alan at Elation would be the only one who knows what brand of batteries he uses,I know they are pouch type. They must be pretty good though to get 65klms from a charge, considering these 200w motors can pull close to 20 amps, 2c,continuous.

Batteries such as ping etc, have to be mounted on rear rack or back pack.

[naughtee]

i'm glad your experience with alan at elation worked out for you, however i should warn other users about dealing with elation bikes here is the link to the forum where others (and myself) have posted their issues with the hardware and the proprietor...

it's up on the aeva forum site, link below
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_pos ... 6686#26686

elation bikes wasted pretty much 4 months of my time with no result, thank goodness i didn't end up losing any money (only my precious time and patience), others don's seem to be as fortunate and forked out dosh for faulty equipment and tardy responses

there are many other very similar systems out there with excellent support

[hozozco]

i'm glad your experience with alan at elation worked out for you, however i should warn other users about dealing with elation bikes here is the link to the forum where others (and myself) have posted their issues with the hardware and the proprietor...

there are many other very similar systems out there with excellent support

Wow - that's a bugger!

I bought my kit a few months ago (paid in advance for a much reduced price) and recieved it without any problems. Had the LBS (also an agent for Elation) fit the kit as I'm not mechanically minded.

Had a few problems with the bike (should have paid more and got a better one), but no problems at all with the Elation side of things.

Just love it. I'm not saying there are no problems (how would I know), but thought I'd mention my positive experience. I phoned Alan when deciding to purchase and he seemed nice enough, if perhaps a bit arrogent. I've emailed Alan over minor support questions (the best way to operate etc) and received prompt efficient replies.

naughtee - just for future reference what 'very similar system with excellent support' would you recommend that someone can purchase from one source and have the LBS fit with no drama?

[naughtee]

a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)

[hozozco]

a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from http://www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with http://www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)

naughtee - Both the 500w hub motor and the systems from cyclone-usa.com are over the Australian 200W limit. This may not be an issue for lots of people, but some people like to stay within the law. Also you outlined your battery issues and said you had to do a bit of 'fiddling' - not all of us are up to 'fiddling'.

It's also a little unfair to compare the Elation system to the cyclone. As far as I can see the cyclone only has one gear at the front - that would be a massive step backwards for my usage. Probably not a problem with 350 or 500w, but it would be with only 200w.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to knock other solutions. I'm just interested if there is another 'kit' that can do what the Elation does (for me at least). I have no doubt there are plenty of custom solutions as good or better than the Elation (even at 200w), but I'm interested in a single kit that my LBS can install.

[dman]

I was planning to go for a decent ride but decided to look at how my cranks spin.

The new crank with sprocket doesn't spin straight on the bottom bracket spindle axle. It starts straight but seems to move left and then back straight - is this a problem? It seems to be put on the square bottom bracket spindle axle correctly, and securely tightened with a wrench. Either the bottom bracket spindle axle is worn or the new crankset with sprocket isn't straight. To my untrained eye they all look OK.

The bike is approx. 8 years old and the crank sets or bottom bracket had never been replaced (or taken off / looked at) until now.

The misalignment is really noticable if I hand spin the pedals backwards (on a wind trainer).

I want to see, based on experience, where the problem may be. I can always take the crankset to a bike shop if that is the problem. This problem is hard to articulate. Any advice?

[naughtee]

a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from http://www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with http://www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)

naughtee - Both the 500w hub motor and the systems from cyclone-usa.com are over the Australian 200W limit. This may not be an issue for lots of people, but some people like to stay within the law. Also you outlined your battery issues and said you had to do a bit of 'fiddling' - not all of us are up to 'fiddling'.

It's also a little unfair to compare the Elation system to the cyclone. As far as I can see the cyclone only has one gear at the front - that would be a massive step backwards for my usage. Probably not a problem with 350 or 500w, but it would be with only 200w.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to knock other solutions. I'm just interested if there is another 'kit' that can do what the Elation does (for me at least). I have no doubt there are plenty of custom solutions as good or better than the Elation (even at 200w), but I'm interested in a single kit that my LBS can install.

no problems, although the only fiddling was working out what was wrong with the battery that i purchased (i don't think we found that out in the end, it was simply worked around with a new controller and battery), i'd get out there with some more searches, as mentioned my "handy-man" skills are somewhat lacking, however with good support you should be able to put all sorts of devices on your bike

and no, as far as i can tell the cyclone uses all the gears available on the bike... i would contact them and ask (i didn't realise they were in australia, so give them a call)

good luck

[lesspedal]

If you do a search on here, lots of threads about cyclone.

Cyclone uses same motor as elation, cyclone has a single crank version with motor under frame, between rear wheel and bb.
The two crank version has motor on tube, same as elation, they have no three crank version.

From what I have read on here, the cyclone crank freewheel lasts about a month.

[zx6rj1]

I took the Elation to another long ride, this time up the mountain of Morzine-Avoriaz to see Tour de France.

The climb was 500m to 1700m in 45km. Again I try to conserve the battery by pedalling but it's just simply a big climb. Battery was ok up to Morzine (45km) but on the way down I was tempted to race a few bikes downhill and flatten the battery at km 60 . But from there it's all downhill, I did 50kph with no motor and no pedalling. So the total trip was 90km with battery available to 60km.

[lesspedal]

Looks great, must be great to be over there with the tour de france etc.

[dman]

Regarding the following volt meters, that are cheaper than the Cycle Analyst:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/stor ... tegory=237

Do they help at all? You really need proper predictive instrumentation.

How do they connect to the elation system if we are interested?

These guys also look to have a nice guage display on some of their bikes: http://www.electricbicycle.com.au/newsl ... 0_July.pdf

The other day for my test I managed to get the red light on the controller, then very soon after the system
shutdown. I would have travelled about 25km's with almost no pedalling (and a very frozen face ).

I assume I should just stay in a much lower gear - I was at the upper end of my gear range - but
didn't realise until it was too late. I wasn't far from home, so it was a good test.

Edit: Also, the guide that comes with the kit recommends keeping the throttle at 20-30% for most of the ride. I have found that the motor hardly moves up until the throttle is at 80 - 100%. If I'm not sitting on the bike and testing it, the motor starts to move at about 20-30% throttle.

[lesspedal]

Hi Dman
The cycle analyst gives you a lot of info, volts,amps drawn, ah[amp hrs] used, max volts, amps etc. It uses a shunt that you connect between battery and motor/controller with only a small gauge wire which goes to display on h'bars, if your not much at soldering you can use connectors such as anderson power poles. But require a special crimper to do the job properly. From what I have read on here ,Other types of meters such as 'watts up' use heavy wire to display and return to controller.

I have a CA fitted on my elation, its ok if you want to know all the above info but in my opinion the leds on the THROTTLE are all you need, the yellow led will illuminate at about 22.5 v, if you don't change down gears or pedal harder the red led will come on, followed by lvc [ low voltage cut off], so use the gears and pedalling to keep green led on as much as possible, naturely this will become more difficult as the battery reaches the end of its charge

You say instructions state use 20 to 30% throttle, I think it says 80% or 80% of max revs which is 2080 rpm [ max 2600] ebikes are at their most efficient at about 80% of max revs, too bad someone can't come up with a rev counter for ebikes.
BTW most ebike throttles are a little touchy, something like all at the end are all half way around.

One way is to raise rear wheel off ground run wot [wide open throttle] then back throttle off slightly to try to judge 80% revs, listen to motor sound then try to keep it the same when riding , using throttle , gears and pedalling, eg, I use middle crank and 5th gear with moderate pedalling to ascend 5% grade.

Imho, powering from a standing start is a waste of batt charge, pedal to about 10kph then slowly add power, remember these are a pedal assist not a motorbike.

Ninety percent of riding will be with front gears middle chain ring, the large one for high speed on flat or downhill, small one if you want to climb up the side of your house.
Always release throttle momentarily when gear changing, especially front derailler.
Cheers.

[dman]

Thanks, that is excellent advice. Advice and more details like that should be on the Elation website. Also some videos showing optimum usage etc.

I tried to put your advice into practice on my commute to work, approx. 14km's each way (along the Eastern FWY bike path from Doncaster to Abbotsford, with lots of up and down hills), over that past 2 days. It does take a bit to get used to. Going by noise you can clearly distinguish when the motor is making more noise than movement, but it isn't so obvious where the optimal spot is.

Sometimes it seems like you need to do the opposite to get the optimum speed. I move up gears when going up some hills because it doesn't feel like maximum pull/power. I might think I need to be in a lower/higher gear but the motor says otherwise.

I was going easy on the throttle. Most of my ride I should be able to have light power and still have enough power for the big hills to get home. Need a bit more trial and error.

I got home with a green led still and still battery power, according to the time taken to recharge. I think I pedal too much and too fast. Hopefully I'll find the sweet spot soon.

[lesspedal]

DMAN.
I know the path where you ride, have done it many times from city to eltham, that was before the elec assist, lol.

I'm not electronics expert but I believe the motor has most torque at lower revs but at the expense of efficiency and overheating.
Best way is to keep motor spinning happily by good use of throttle/gears and pedalling, you will soon get the hang of it.

Alan dow from elation has made some good posts regarding riding and efficiency on this thread a few pages back.

Cheers.

[hozozco]

I thought I'd post some pictures of my Elation install. I've included a few pictures that give more detail on how the battery mounts as I think this is quite clever and I've never seen any good pictures on the net.

The bike itself is too[b][/b]cheap! I'll get a better one next time. To be honest, I wasn't sure if I was really going to use the bike as much as I do so I didn't want to spend more money than I had to. Now I find I ride to work each day! There is a killer hill on the way home (and some nasty ones on the way to work) and I just wouldn't do it without the Elation.

I'm yet to get passed on the up hill bits - and there are some very fit (and now very surprised) cyclists on this route. I've seen a few petrol powered bikes around, but no e-bikes.

I've not added pictures before, so here goes:

IMGP1836.jpg

(225.2 KiB) Downloaded 3 times

Happy cycling!

[lesspedal]

Nothing wrong with those pics, very good.
The only hills I can remember in Adelaide were towards the adelaide hills.

Any way these units make easy work of just about any hill.

Cheers and thanks for the pics.

Edit: I did notice the Prius in background.

[hozozco]

Nothing wrong with those pics, very good.
The only hills I can remember in Adelaide were towards the adelaide hills.

I live down South in Hallett Cove and have the 'Southern Expressway' to climb. It's a nasty, nasty hill for a no-longer fit 40 year old.

The Elation makes it easier. I still pedal hard too (and wear Lycra)...just love passing people!

Prius - yes, 2 hybrids in one photo!

[dman]

LessPedal: I have been doing more testing and have tried to stay on middle chain ring with relaxed pedalling, but the resistance is too low on the flats or small down-hills. The motor is doing close to all the work. Also, I need to go to the 5-7th gear and get annoying rubbing noise.

I think because I'm riding a mtb (rather than a road/hybrid bike) that the middle chain ring isn't enough. I'll try the big chain ring in order to maintain my effort.

hozozco: Yours looks like it has an older crankset than my new kit. Also, your battery sits flush on its mount plug - mine isn't so straight but it isn't a problem.

[zilla]

hi i have had an elation kit for about a year its fitted to a kestral carbon fiber road bike with carbon tri spoke wheels
the elation kit is very well thought out and allan is a pleasure to deal with (my kit had a small issue when i brought it and allan whent way beyond what he had to do to fix it at no expence to me)

i have modifyed my kit in a few ways to increase its performance

it now runs a 500w motor and lipo batterys at 30v max output has been 51amps or about 1350w but it sits just below 900w when cruising at full throttle

2 zippy flightmax 5800mah 29.9 volt 8s long packs (11.6ah) easily fit into the original elation battery holder and give much better than i expected range and performance lipo batterys rock with the hi c rating they do not voltage sag at all they sit for the first 5km well above the 29.9v they are rated at they hold at 31v loading the motor up at low revs when freshly charged and weigh less the difference to performance is amazing when compared to the standard battery they also recharge at an amazing rate (charge time is about half the ride time eg ten min of ride usually takes 5min to fully recharge)

the bike weighs 15kg and easily goes 60kph and as an average of my last 5 trips to work used 11.6wh /km with light pedaling

[lesspedal]

HI zilla,
Good to see you and the carbon bike still going strong.

[lesspedal]

Dman.
If yur running out of steam on middle chain ring you need to go to a higher gear [ large chainring], you must be strong rider.

However, on any multi geared triple chainring bike, when on small ring you should only use 1,2 and 3 on rear, on middle ring you can use all on rear.
On large ring, use only 3 highest on rear eg, 6,7 and 8. So a 24 spd bike should only use 14 gears.

The rubbing noise is most likely chain scraping front derailler, maybe trimming [ front cable adjust ] on front shifter tweak barrel adjust about quarter turn either way to move derailler off chain, or it may be caused by using lower rear gears when on large front ring.

All v2 elations have same size crankrings 48t, 38t, 28t.

http://bicycletutor.com/gear-shifting/

http://forums.bicycletutor.com/thread-1995.html

Hope this helps
Cheers.