10 kW
Just submitted a review of the Stokemonkey setup I installed last month to Cycle9, where I bought the hardware. I wanted to wait until I had more miles on it; I only have 50 so far. But the weather is not great and I am not going to be racking up big miles; I am only using it to commute to work right now due to the rather extreme cold. When it is warmer, I will be using it for short errands more.
Anyway, several people here (Russell, Dogman, and swbluto, to name a few) have been very helpful. So as partial payback/payforward, I offer the following slightly edited version of my posted review on the retailer's web site for the curious-minded. I got the Xtracycle conversion kit, the Stokemonkey conversion kit, and battery all from Cycle9 (cycle9.com).
-------review follows-----------------------------
I spent $400 first converting my hybrid bike to an Xtracycle just so I could install the StokeMonkey kit. WHen I first realized the SM kit required an Xtracycle conversion first, I was put-off. I did not like the thought of the Xtracycle conversion before I installed mine because a) it looks weird, and b) I was afraid it would alter the way the bike rode for the worse. Both, in my opinion, turned out to be partially true. I have seen several posts in other places about how people liked the way their bike handled better after the conversion. I was happy with mine before the conversion and do not see any reason to try to improve it. However, there are two negative impacts that are slight but which I experience; 1) the extra long chainline has made my bike finicky about shifting into 3rd on the rear sprocket. It is not a big deal but it is true. I can fiddle it the indexing all day but it seems to be determined to be difficult about one gear or the other, and so I settled on 3rd. 2) While there appears to be little or no up-down flex due to the conversion, I frequently get a slight weird side flex or sway feeling when I go over a bump with any significant load in the sidebags. Neither problem is a show-stopper or even close. On the balance, I really like having the extra space. I definitely use my bike more because of the extra space, so I think the conversion was worth it. It still looks odd though and you either have to convert to an Xtracycle or buy a Big Dummy; those are the only two frame options that the Stokemonkey supports.
All told, I have over $2400 in the Xtracycle conversion, SM kit, and 15 A-hr battery; a lot of money, no doubt. However, this kit simply works like I wanted and expected. If you have to climb serious hills, a motor that works through the crank like the SM can be kept in its highly efficient range, meaning much less battery power and longer range. I go up >20% grade hills every day and go up them drawing less than 10 amps. The ability to pick the right gear makes all the difference. There are three other e-bike kits that I know of that work through the crank. However, the SM has one advantage they do not; it is very nearly absolutely silent in operation, due to the low speed motor. Other systems use high speed motors with planetary gears that emit a high pitched whine. This may not be objectionable, but I was not able to test one prior to purchase so I went with the system I was able to test. I was very interested in the Ecospeed and might have bought one, but I could not find anywhere to try one out. Part of my ride is on a greenway and stealth is an absolute requirement for using the motor on the greenway; motors are prohibited. I don't think anyone minds as long as the bike is quiet and you don't drive dangerously fast around pedestrian traffic.
I did a lot of background reading before I bought the Monkey; it was a lot of money to let go of. However, every time I go up a hill with my feet simply going round with the pedals, I realize it was the right choice for me. I get to work with as much or as little peddling effort as I want.
The advantage of the SM system is not that it will go up a hill ultra-fast; to go up a hill at a given speed takes a certain amount of energy as you all know. The laws of physics still apply here. The advantage is that it can go up at a MODERATE speed at HIGH efficiency due to the use of ALL the bike's gears. Efficiency means it needs much less power so less current is required. A system designed for high efficiency at a relatively high single speed will require large guage wires in the windings to handle the current at low speed/high load conditions and a massive battery to produce that current. When you compare prices of single speed systems designed to go up a hill, then you get close to the SM system in price. I'm thinking here of a 20 A-hr batt, 35 amp or larger controller, and 5 series Clyte
To be sure, there are conditions under which a single speed system is as good as or better than the SM and is much less expensive. Going fast on flat ground is a good example of where single speed systems excel; the SM is limited by the manufacturer to 20 MPH. WHile it is probably not that difficult to hack the CA to get that limite lifted, 20 MPH is plenty fast for a guy with 2 kids to put through college yet. However, as soon as I tested the SM on a hill, I knew it was the only system that performed exactly the way I wanted one to perform. I don't use the SM on flats; the effort required to travel at a moderate speed on a flat road is nearly trivial for the average person in reasonablly good shape and my commute is only 7 miles so high speed is not required. However, I don't hesitate to gear down and hit the throttle on the hills. It simply never fails to perform as expected.
I keep the CA current limited to 15 amps; I can do any hill I need to at that current draw just fine. If I wanted to do a true motor-only test, I would take off the current limit. However, since the system is designed to work with the pedals going round, my feet are there anyway and since my feet are on the pedals, I tend to pedal. However, when I have the battery "burned in" at 15 amps max., I'll turn off the limit and to a few hills of known grade for the masses. Who knows, I might even hit 20 amps!!!
Hope someone finds this useful. I don't think everyone needs to spring for an SM to satisfy their requirements but I think if you want good performance on steep hills, you need to be realistic. I also recommend to anyone looking to buy a system to try to find a place like Cycle9 with several systems to try so you will know what to expect. Also, if the bikes have a CA, all the better, so you can get an idea of the battery you will need. I use well under 5 amp hours on my typical ride home. Can't remember exactly what it is; somewhere between 2 and 3 A-hr I think. Well, I'm off on my sub-freezng point ride home. Maybe I NEED to work a little harder just to stay warm!
Anyway, several people here (Russell, Dogman, and swbluto, to name a few) have been very helpful. So as partial payback/payforward, I offer the following slightly edited version of my posted review on the retailer's web site for the curious-minded. I got the Xtracycle conversion kit, the Stokemonkey conversion kit, and battery all from Cycle9 (cycle9.com).
-------review follows-----------------------------
I spent $400 first converting my hybrid bike to an Xtracycle just so I could install the StokeMonkey kit. WHen I first realized the SM kit required an Xtracycle conversion first, I was put-off. I did not like the thought of the Xtracycle conversion before I installed mine because a) it looks weird, and b) I was afraid it would alter the way the bike rode for the worse. Both, in my opinion, turned out to be partially true. I have seen several posts in other places about how people liked the way their bike handled better after the conversion. I was happy with mine before the conversion and do not see any reason to try to improve it. However, there are two negative impacts that are slight but which I experience; 1) the extra long chainline has made my bike finicky about shifting into 3rd on the rear sprocket. It is not a big deal but it is true. I can fiddle it the indexing all day but it seems to be determined to be difficult about one gear or the other, and so I settled on 3rd. 2) While there appears to be little or no up-down flex due to the conversion, I frequently get a slight weird side flex or sway feeling when I go over a bump with any significant load in the sidebags. Neither problem is a show-stopper or even close. On the balance, I really like having the extra space. I definitely use my bike more because of the extra space, so I think the conversion was worth it. It still looks odd though and you either have to convert to an Xtracycle or buy a Big Dummy; those are the only two frame options that the Stokemonkey supports.
All told, I have over $2400 in the Xtracycle conversion, SM kit, and 15 A-hr battery; a lot of money, no doubt. However, this kit simply works like I wanted and expected. If you have to climb serious hills, a motor that works through the crank like the SM can be kept in its highly efficient range, meaning much less battery power and longer range. I go up >20% grade hills every day and go up them drawing less than 10 amps. The ability to pick the right gear makes all the difference. There are three other e-bike kits that I know of that work through the crank. However, the SM has one advantage they do not; it is very nearly absolutely silent in operation, due to the low speed motor. Other systems use high speed motors with planetary gears that emit a high pitched whine. This may not be objectionable, but I was not able to test one prior to purchase so I went with the system I was able to test. I was very interested in the Ecospeed and might have bought one, but I could not find anywhere to try one out. Part of my ride is on a greenway and stealth is an absolute requirement for using the motor on the greenway; motors are prohibited. I don't think anyone minds as long as the bike is quiet and you don't drive dangerously fast around pedestrian traffic.
I did a lot of background reading before I bought the Monkey; it was a lot of money to let go of. However, every time I go up a hill with my feet simply going round with the pedals, I realize it was the right choice for me. I get to work with as much or as little peddling effort as I want.
The advantage of the SM system is not that it will go up a hill ultra-fast; to go up a hill at a given speed takes a certain amount of energy as you all know. The laws of physics still apply here. The advantage is that it can go up at a MODERATE speed at HIGH efficiency due to the use of ALL the bike's gears. Efficiency means it needs much less power so less current is required. A system designed for high efficiency at a relatively high single speed will require large guage wires in the windings to handle the current at low speed/high load conditions and a massive battery to produce that current. When you compare prices of single speed systems designed to go up a hill, then you get close to the SM system in price. I'm thinking here of a 20 A-hr batt, 35 amp or larger controller, and 5 series Clyte
To be sure, there are conditions under which a single speed system is as good as or better than the SM and is much less expensive. Going fast on flat ground is a good example of where single speed systems excel; the SM is limited by the manufacturer to 20 MPH. WHile it is probably not that difficult to hack the CA to get that limite lifted, 20 MPH is plenty fast for a guy with 2 kids to put through college yet. However, as soon as I tested the SM on a hill, I knew it was the only system that performed exactly the way I wanted one to perform. I don't use the SM on flats; the effort required to travel at a moderate speed on a flat road is nearly trivial for the average person in reasonablly good shape and my commute is only 7 miles so high speed is not required. However, I don't hesitate to gear down and hit the throttle on the hills. It simply never fails to perform as expected.
I keep the CA current limited to 15 amps; I can do any hill I need to at that current draw just fine. If I wanted to do a true motor-only test, I would take off the current limit. However, since the system is designed to work with the pedals going round, my feet are there anyway and since my feet are on the pedals, I tend to pedal. However, when I have the battery "burned in" at 15 amps max., I'll turn off the limit and to a few hills of known grade for the masses. Who knows, I might even hit 20 amps!!!
Hope someone finds this useful. I don't think everyone needs to spring for an SM to satisfy their requirements but I think if you want good performance on steep hills, you need to be realistic. I also recommend to anyone looking to buy a system to try to find a place like Cycle9 with several systems to try so you will know what to expect. Also, if the bikes have a CA, all the better, so you can get an idea of the battery you will need. I use well under 5 amp hours on my typical ride home. Can't remember exactly what it is; somewhere between 2 and 3 A-hr I think. Well, I'm off on my sub-freezng point ride home. Maybe I NEED to work a little harder just to stay warm!
