A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

[solarx]

The A2B seems like a real bargain compared to this http://optibike.com Looks like a nice ride but not at $16000.00 for a EBIKE.
Dan

The optibike seems to be targeted at the very rich with nothing better to spend money on. If you watch some of the vids on the site, you can tell it's designed really well. Another ebike probably out of reach of the masses will be the http://gizmodo.com/5525484/m55-evo+001-is-the-ferrari-of-electric-bikes

[oatnet]

Great Review Ypedal, a great looking bike too.

As I understand it, after Tidalforce went Belly-Up, some engineers went on to start E+, and engineers went to start Ultramotor.

E+ licensed the great tidalforce technology from Matra, which puts the battery mass in the front wheel, balancing the mass of the rear hub motor perfectly, while establishing a very low COG by putting the mass around the axles. BTW, I'd recommend adding the E+ 1000w bikes on your list of commercial bikes worth tring, the balance and production quality are great even though the price is not. I picked one up earlier this year at a major discount, it is also waterproof, and with pedalling you can break 30mph.

However, Ultramotor was not constrained by the existing technology and started with a fresh design, and IMHO did it right. They maintained the tidalforce commitment to front/rear balance and low COG with the small wheels and in-frame battery. The smaller wheels helped boost torque without increasing watts. However, they added full suspension, disk brakes, and lithium chemistry. They also hit a better price point better than E+'s $3,500, although IMO it will take a bike of this quality coming in at @$1,800 for the ebike market to explode, and the company doing it will become the 'kleenex' of ebikes.

When I was negotiating with E+ to buy a few hundred motor/battery kits to retrofit to my TF frames, I tried to counsel them on their price point, not to mention brakes and chemistry. They didn't get the message, which is too bad, when gas was high and the economy hadn't tanked they had a chance to establish their brand as the definition of ebike, at least to the ready-built market.

Oh, until your review, I didn't clue in that A2B uses the Alex DX-32's - I used them in 26" on my BMC build and they are my new standard, they totally rock Hookworms.

I also noticed that the kickstand is identical to the "Durable Double Kickstands" I've been selling for frames with 26" wheels. The proportions look the same, I wonder if is the same stand but the mounting point is higher on the A2B allowing for 20" wheels:

-JD

[solarx]

After doing a bit of research there might be a clean upgrade solution for us A2B users. This spring UltaMotor is due to release it's A2B-Excel which uses 2 batteries. A 48V in frame with a 36V on the rear rack. The back battery charges the front battery (IDEP), and it's all pumped into a rear mounted 800W@48V motor. The Excel ebike is based on the metro but dumps the pedals and calls it a scooter. Range is 28 miles @ 28mph.
I plan to contact my local dealer and see what he can get the parts for.
http://www.gizmag.com/ultr-motor-a2b-excel-pedal-less-electric-scooter/13129/
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/7623-ultra-motors-2010-a2b-and-a2b-excel
http://plugbike.com/2009/09/23/ultra-motor-a2b-excel-scoote/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyNTc9IIjTM

[Ypedal]

That IDEP thing sounds fishy to me.... pumping energy from battery B into battery A means that battery B will not be fully charged anymore .. only way to get max possible energy capacity is to charge both batteries fully, independantly.

edit : unless you plug the B into the bike to fill up the on board pack, then re-charge the B pack again to fill it up also... ??

[solarx]

That IDEP thing sounds fishy to me....

Maybe. But you know you want it anyway. No really I think it's the motor we might be after.

Just got off the tele with the local A2B dealer. Sadly he can't get the parts for this yet.

I added the extra rear bat pack. Local dealer hooked me up. It required an upgrade to the rear shock to prevent it from bottoming out.
Price was 50 bucks cheaper then anything I could find online. He did the work on the rear shock (50 in parts) and threw in an extra charger for free.

[solarx]

I also noticed that the kickstand is identical to the "Durable Double Kickstands" I've been selling for frames with 26" wheels."

The A2B kickstand has dual springs on the left hand side. It's branded "YING CHENG Twiwan" (same maker?). Black and silver philips nut set.

[BLUESTREAK]

HEY YPEDAL go to ebay and look up (ITEM # 250612321528) I know how much you love your a2b. you might like this.

[solarx]

Here is another little interesting snippit I found online while doing more research. Seems some Metro's have an OffRoad-Boost button right next to the throttle.
Anybody know if that is a feature of the EU/pedal assist bikes? Or if controler just dumps more unregulated amps into the motor?

Source http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49302308,00.htm

[solarx]

Here is another little interesting snippit I found online while doing more research. Seems some Metro's have an OffRoad-Boost button right next to the throttle.
Anybody know if that is a feature of the EU/pedal assist bikes? Or if controler just dumps more unregulated amps into the motor?

Found out it's useless in the US. It turns out it's for the EU models that are limited to 15mph and the button just brings it up to the 20mph range.

[The Stig]

Here is another little interesting snippit I found online while doing more research. Seems some Metro's have an OffRoad-Boost button right next to the throttle.
Anybody know if that is a feature of the EU/pedal assist bikes? Or if controler just dumps more unregulated amps into the motor?

Source http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49302308,00.htm

In england and probably the rest of the EU the A2B Metro is limited to 250W unless you press that "off road button" then it becomes a normal 500W A2B Metro.

[Mark_A_W]

In england and probably the rest of the EU the A2B Metro is limited to 250W unless you press that "off road button" then it becomes a normal 500W A2B Metro.

No one would ever dream of pressing that button while on the road.

[The Stig]

Can I have any info about the A2B batteries? Any specs at all on the internal and extended range battery would be really helpful.

I'm thinking of buying one of these babys for modification. I just don't think the motor/controller will be adequate for really steep long hills, the type of hills you have to stay in first gear in a car. I really like everything else on the a2b especially the battery position/mounting.

I contacted a dealer and he said hes gonna get back to me with wiring diagram and specs. I believe in ES more than dealers though

[solarx]

Can I have any info about the A2B batteries? Any specs at all on the internal and extended range battery would be really helpful.

It's a ~11.1AH 36V Lithium-ion battery. The internal one should be about the same.

Buy it! It's a well designed ebike with attention paid to so many of the little details that make it worth every penny.

[Ypedal]

The packs are made from Sanyo 18650 cells.

I wrote a reply earlier from work, but the damn firewall blocked it and i lost everything i wrote.. grrrrr....

Looked at the bike last night and considered my options.

- The throttle LED can easily be disabled to prevent it from burning out.. i have a CA on the handlebars so i don't need the led's.. if / when i ever sell the bike at 36v i can re-wire the led later. Or just let it burn out..

- The B connector near the back rack, is a 5 pin molded connector ( a very nice one too !!.. i wonder if they make a 7 pin model, would be ideal for lipo 6S packs ). I suspect Ultra Motor not only builds A2B bikes, they must have cable production going on as they have their wires labeled with their brand.. I don't know if only 2 of the 5 pins are used, or if there are other functions involved but i can't just cut this connector.. so i have to open up the bottom again.

- I could wire up 48v directly to the CA going into the motor and bypass the entire relay/key side,

***stopped typing... and walked over to the bike ...

Findings, If you bypass the key/relay etc and hook up the pack directly to the power wires that exit the hub, the controller and throttle works !!! with the throttle LED off..

going for a ride.. brb.

[Ypedal]

Ok.. so with a 48v headway pack on my back, some good and some bad news.

Good news first, top speed is much improved ! at 36v, 7th gear allows for a nice pedal cadence match, on 48v you pedal fairly faster ( faster than i like to pedal, when i do ).

The Bade news however, is that the controller has a 30 amp limit and only after you reach 15~20 km/h..... from zero rpm you don't get alot of help, the controller limits even more.....

Only way to do it right would be to open up the motor and remove the stock controller.. then you could push 45 amps and get to the good stuff....

[The Stig]

I wrote a reply earlier from work, but the damn firewall blocked it and i lost everything i wrote.. grrrrr....

Dam thats annoying

Looked at the bike last night and considered my options.

- The throttle LED can easily be disabled to prevent it from burning out.. i have a CA on the handlebars so i don't need the led's.. if / when i ever sell the bike at 36v i can re-wire the led later. Or just let it burn out..

- The B connector near the back rack, is a 5 pin molded connector ( a very nice one too !!.. i wonder if they make a 7 pin model, would be ideal for lipo 6S packs ). I suspect Ultra Motor not only builds A2B bikes, they must have cable production going on as they have their wires labeled with their brand.. I don't know if only 2 of the 5 pins are used, or if there are other functions involved but i can't just cut this connector.. so i have to open up the bottom again.

- I could wire up 48v directly to the CA going into the motor and bypass the entire relay/key side,

***stopped typing... and walked over to the bike ...

Findings, If you bypass the key/relay etc and hook up the pack directly to the power wires that exit the hub, the controller and throttle works !!! with the throttle LED off..

going for a ride.. brb.

?... what modding are you planning?

Questions that dont have answers yet:
Does the charger charge both internal and external batteries?
Whats is the biggest controller I could expect each of these batteries to power in terms of AMPS?

Again I'm just thinking of wiring one controller to each battery but still would like to have the key work and charger charge both bats.

Ok.. so with a 48v headway pack on my back, some good and some bad news.

Good news first, top speed is much improved ! at 36v, 7th gear allows for a nice pedal cadence match, on 48v you pedal fairly faster ( faster than i like to pedal, when i do ).

The Bade news however, is that the controller has a 30 amp limit and only after you reach 15~20 km/h..... from zero rpm you don't get alot of help, the controller limits even more.....

Only way to do it right would be to open up the motor and remove the stock controller.. then you could push 45 amps and get to the good stuff....

Yeah I see the controller/motor as the limiting factor. I want TORQUE! The bats are real nice. And I guess that answers my question: 30A is the max current these batts are each comfy with.

You could wire them in series for some serious speed.

[AussieJester]

Only way to do it right would be to open up the motor and remove the stock controller..

So whenz this happening YPedal MaN? While your at it throw the wheel
away and slot in the running gear from the Norco and man that A2B up some

KiM

[Ypedal]

All options are open right now.. i'm even considering gutting out the frame battery and fill it with lipo like you mentioned earlier lol.. *( and a change of motor to go with it )

[AussieJester]

All options are open right now.. i'm even considering gutting out the frame battery and fill it with lipo like you mentioned earlier lol.. *( and a change of motor to go with it )

WoooHoooooo!!! has a heap of room for upgrading, i wonder how many 22v packs would jam insode the frame...

KiM

[ET4041]

Hi guys, great thread for someone looking at getting the A2B.

One thing I am thinking of, something that was said by the lady from Ultra Motor in the video with Jay Leno, is you need to go "pedal pedal throttle throttle" when going uphill. What's that all about? Why would you need to do that? If it's a steep enough hill, I imagine it would be pretty hard to just pedal without any electric assist, even for just a while.

Also I am wondering what kind of realistic range you can expect with pedaling? The 20 mile range is with no pedaling. I know it depends on a number of things, but some idea would be useful. I have a 36 km commute round trip and can't charge the battery at work so this might be borderline, no? The big hills are at the end which is when the battery would start to drop off. I could just get the secondary battery, but would rather not if I don't need to.

[John in CR]

ET4041,

If you're in the US, then your employer can get a $20/month tax credit for providing a place for parking and charging your ebike. Then you both can come out ahead. An employer simply can't turn down something good for employees that also makes the company more money. We should make that one of the goals of the forum, to force change so no one can say "I can't charge my bike at work." anymore.

[Ypedal]

unless you happen to be a lumberjack

And ET, no worries about pedal/throttle .. just peg the throttle on full and pedal if and how much you need to in order to keep your speed up !

For a 36km trip, get 2 packs, one pack would do it with alot of pedaling but 2 packs will do it with ease and make them last a long time with shallower cycles.. !

[CraigT]

The A2B seems like a real bargain compared to this http://optibike.com Looks like a nice ride but not at $16000.00 for a EBIKE.
Dan

Hello Gents! My name is Craig, I work for Optibike (and have since the beginning..)

I like lurking on this forum to see what you guys are up to.... and I felt now is as good of time as any to join in the fun.

I wanted to comment about Dan's post quoted above by saying that Optibike has a model starting at $5995, and our most expensive bike is $11995. While I am not ruling out the posibility of a $16000 E-bike in the future, we do not have one now.

I also wanted to invite you to take a look at a blog posting I made a few weeks ago that compared the componentry of the $9995 Optibike 850xli and a similarly spec'd Trek at $6819.99. Its an interesting conversation point nonetheless, and I am interested to hear your feedback.

http://blog2.optibike.com/2010/04/29/what-does-a-non-electric-bike-with-optibike-similar-specs-cost/

Cheers my friends,

Craig Taber

[Ypedal]

Hello Craig !

Nice to see you on the forum, it would be an honor to own an optibike !! unfortunately it's way over my budget (only way i could afford this A2B was to get a used one and promise a full review for a break on the sticker price lol ).. Heck, i'd give you a flashing banner on the Ypedal projects page !! heh heh..

I checked your blog.. i like the idea of a 20ah pack in frame. might want to edit something tho..

Quote "The 22ah 36v battery used in the Optibike is the largest battery offered in an electric bicycle today. ... "

But the nice graph comparing it to nimh " http://optibike.com/images/stories/batt ... arison.jpg " shows a 19ah capacity, 20ah if you absolutely drain it flat.



I have to salute the use of a very high quality bike tho, ain't nothing like the ride of a high end bicycle, i ride my Norco Chaos for a few days and when i get on the lesser Mountaineer it's night and day, brakes, shifters, suspension, makes pedaling alot more enjoyable.

[solarx]

Questions that dont have answers yet:
Does the charger charge both internal and external batteries?

The same charger can charge both batteries, however you must charge them independently of each other (or at the same time with 2 chargers).
The rear pack has it's own socket and power button which turns blue when on.


(sorry for the low res)