anyone test drive a Busettii's in LA yet?

[Paul_G]

My sister lives in LA and wants 2 electric bikes and I was wondering if any here own a Busettii's.

Stats look great and the price is OK....they say: New VORTEX 38 volt 19 ah soft pack super lithium battery runs 65 miles per charge No Pedaling & 86 miles in pedal mode


http://www.busettii.com/

[torker]

I have never seen one mentioned. But we like to live vicariously through others adventures here. hint hint

Seriously, It looks good and has a stellar warranty. IF the wormdrive motor is more efficient than a hub it may be worth the cost to some. I hope someone here has tried it so we can see though. If it truly has 19 ah on board then the cost isn't bad. I think it is $1900 for the 2 battery version. The miles per charge claim seems way out there though.

[jimw1960]

No way you will get 65 miles off a 19 Ah pack with no pedaling unless you are going 5 mph or downhill the whole time. So, take that number with a grain of salt. Makes me wonder what else are they exaggerating about.

[torker]

The biggest improvement I see is if that drives through the crank it would be a great hillclimber going through the gears. I can't see it being more efficient once at speed though.

[Paul_G]

who lives in LA that can test drive one and report on mileage, speed and the bike in general?

[mvly]

Yeah i doubt you will get 65miles out of that battery. Even assuming 20mph, that battery needs to last for 3.25 hours which comes to about 200Watts power consumption. I think if you pedal with it pretty hard, probably you will get that range. With my ebike, I only get like 10mph or less with 200W power consumption w/o pedal assist. I think realistically that bike can get you around 40miles at best without pedal assist at low cruising speed.

[tenrozz1952]

I own a bussettii big 50 electric bike and it flys up hills with no problem. It has one of the best torques for going up steep hills. I think your sister would be super happy owning a busettii bike. Mine will average 22mph on the flats and about 17 to 19mph going up steep hills. Hope this helps.

Tenrozz1952

[torker]

I own a bussettii big 50 electric bike and it flys up hills with no problem. It has one of the best torques for going up steep hills. I think your sister would be super happy owning a busettii bike. Mine will average 22mph on the flats and about 17 to 19mph going up steep hills. Hope this helps.

Tenrozz1952

Any idea on range? Welcome to ES

[blissisebike]

Okay, I am new to this excellent looking forum and am considering purchase of the Busettii Vortex. I am not an engineer, electrician, or even a bike mechanic. Just an average joe who has owned three ebikes over the years and love what they have enabled me to do. I am intrigued by this bike, but was a bit confused by the differences in motor power for the Vortex as described in current Ebay listing and in the official Busettii website. The Ebay listing states that it has a 250 watt motor, but that it has the torque of a 500 watt hub motor. But yet that it consumes only the watts of a 250 watt motor. By contrast, the website says that the Vortex employs a 500 watt motor.

I wrote the website for a clarification and here is the response I received yesterday:

Oh, well you do understand what im saying but ill split it like this. You are right though, but we just found a way to better make use of the battery so that the motor does not always have to waste so much power. If you do notice, the amp rating is extremely high for this reason, and not the voltage.

1000 is peak
500 is its motor
250 is what it consumes from battery

This is why it attains such a high range of mileage. Its new technology is the servo worm drive internal transmission center motor.




- greypz

So what am I missing? My understanding is that electric motors can be run at a lower load and thus use less of the batterypack capacity we have available on our ebikes. Many ebikes have economy modes where they draw less from our batteries, but in the process necessarily deliver less power. But both what the website communicates and what was written back to me are stating that 500 watts is delivered while consuming only 250 watts equivalent from the battery. Is that even possible (this coming from my posture as a non-engineer/electrician)? If the motor is drawing reserves from the battery at only a 250 watt rate, isn't the real result that a 500 watt motor has been reduced to a 250 watt motor for the period it is drawing at this rate?

To attain the 30 plus mph the Vortex claims, I would think 500 watts delivered from the motor plus a reasonable amount of input from the rider would be necessary. Unless I have misunderstood everything I have tried to learn about this subject over the years, it is not possible to have a 500 watt motor somehow deliver 500 continuous watts while drawing from the batterypack energy at the rate a 250 watt motor would draw.

I get it that the bottom bracket drive has great efficiencies by using the advantage of driving the motor through each gear. But that is not the point! What am I missing about this marvelous motor that delivers 500 watts while drawing at the rate of a 250 watt motor?

[mvly]

My guess is they are doing some comparison to other ebikes... Unless they created a energy generating machine! lol. Here is my thoughts. I think they are comparing their drive system to other ebike drive system. Other ebike might need 500W to sustain the same speed this bike can do while only using 250W. I am not sure I am wording it correctly.

Think of it this way:
Ebike A can sustain X mph using 500W
Busetti eBike can sustain X mph using just 250W

Now that is all theoretical. In the real world, I doubt you will be able to always use 250W to match the 500W ebike. Maybe when climbing a slight 1-3% grade hill, the busetti ebike will now use 350W, while Ebike A will still use 500W to climb the same hill at matching speeds. In a sense, the 500W ebike does not increase power output to climb the hill, but the busetti will need to increase its power to do so.

Similarly, on a downhill, maybe the busetti only require 175W and Ebike A will require 450W.

So you never know. But realistically, I doubt they can get 65Miles on that 19Ah batttery. It just does not have enough energy in it to do so. You will definitely need to pedal quite a bit to get it to that range which really means that the busetti is not much better than other ebikes.

[blissisebike]

Thanks for the input. Yes, I went through that theoretical exercise in my own mind, too. The fact is that ebikes can vary widely in efficiencies at the same speed and on the same terrain. That is why I wrote to the website. Their literature seems quite clear in that they are delivering 500 watts of power, but only at a real cost to the batterypack of same Busettii of what a 250 watt motor would draw. The reply from them seems to indicate that it is some mix of technology of worm-drive motor, transmission, and battery technology that allows a 500 watt result at a cost of only what a normal 250 watt motor would draw. I am not an engineer, but I can read graphs of such data. Should not they be producing documented evidence of such a remarkable mix of components that can produce a result other ebike manufacturers seem incapable of approaching? The jargon, to me, seems a lot of hype and twisting of hyperbole. Show the data! The pretty words and outlandish claims mean nothing if they can't be backed up by verifiable data that can be repeated by outside testers of the product.

[nicobie]

they are saying that 250w can do the work of 500w?

Hahahahahahahaaa...

Another fine example of marketing.

[ConsumerPI]

Man I want one if the claims are correct but to me, it's more than what i want to pay for a max 6 month riding season here in Canada.

My sister lives in LA and wants 2 electric bikes and I was wondering if any here own a Busettii's.

Stats look great and the price is OK....they say: New VORTEX 38 volt 19 ah soft pack super lithium battery runs 65 miles per charge No Pedaling & 86 miles in pedal mode


http://www.busettii.com/

[TheFlyingHandlebar]

Hey guys. I recently started a bike rental company in San Diego. http://bikefleets.com/. I attempted to create an electric bike fleet using Busettii. Busetti offered me a 3 year warranty and wholesaled me 12 bikes. It's been less than a year and my whole fleet has failed.

1. The rear wheels will fall apart. They come with wrong sized spokes and wrong lace pattern. The rims and spokes are Garbage as well.
2. The axles might spin in the dropouts. When the axles spin they will rip out the harness and split the aluminum dropouts. These bikes don't have proper torque arms.
3. The hub motors will fail. The spragg clutches will start clattering away within a few months.
4. Motor controls and battery chargers will randomly quit.
5. The batteries will go 50-350 cycles.
6. The battery is not a true 48 volt. The batteries were shorted a cell. The Chinese used 13 cells rather than 14. And the battery manufacture (SYL) closed their doors and changed their name.
6. The alloys of the components such as brake levers, brake calipers, stems, handlebars, racks and forks are the worst of the worst. I had a brake lever snap off in my hand and I also had a customer shear a stem. It snapped right at the neck.
7. The Bottom bracket bearings are misaligned.
8. The head sets are missing ball bearings.( A few of the ball bearing rings were even installed upside down)
9. Every bolt was cross threaded. Including the bolts for the motor control boxes, the racks, and clamps.


I replaced and reinforced every failed component until the motor and the batteries started to go, then I gave up. Busetti didn't warranty a single item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeBZT0f2_w

[miro13car]

Horror story indeed.
ANOTHER reseller of Chinese brand ebike, they changed name, made cosmetic changes.
But THREE YEARS WARRANTY? Some completely no technical person with no ebike experience must be selling those ebikes if they cannot figure that is China componenets crap..
BUT
Why Busseti name???

[Ykick]

Didn't you hear? "THIS is what we've all been waiting for???"

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30194

[gogo]

Hey guys. I recently started a bike rental company in San Diego. http://bikefleets.com/. I attempted to create an electric bike fleet using Busettii. Busetti offered me a 3 year warranty and wholesaled me 12 bikes. It's been less than a year and my whole fleet has failed.

1. The rear wheels will fall apart. They come with wrong sized spokes and wrong lace pattern. The rims and spokes are Garbage as well.
2. The axles might spin in the dropouts. When the axles spin they will rip out the harness and split the aluminum dropouts. These bikes don't have proper torque arms.
3. The hub motors will fail. The spragg clutches will start clattering away within a few months.
4. Motor controls and battery chargers will randomly quit.
5. The batteries will go 50-350 cycles.
6. The battery is not a true 48 volt. The batteries were shorted a cell. The Chinese used 13 cells rather than 14. And the battery manufacture (SYL) closed their doors and changed their name.
6. The alloys of the components such as brake levers, brake calipers, stems, handlebars, racks and forks are the worst of the worst. I had a brake lever snap off in my hand and I also had a customer shear a stem. It snapped right at the neck.
7. The Bottom bracket bearings are misaligned.
8. The head sets are missing ball bearings.( A few of the ball bearing rings were even installed upside down)
9. Every bolt was cross threaded. Including the bolts for the motor control boxes, the racks, and clamps.


I replaced and reinforced every failed component until the motor and the batteries started to go, then I gave up. Busetti didn't warranty a single item.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeBZT0f2_w

Hmm, the Bafang freewheel mechanisms are giving out according to the video.

[opimax]

My 1st post here, hi everyone!
I am going to be buying pre-made ebike by next summer, don't want to do a kit although I am hoping what I end up with can be modded w/o OEM parts(that takes care of BIonx:( ). On paper this was my 1st choice. On the net nothing good about Busettii so as of now they are no longer in the running. Who then on the east coast? only manufacture I have found local is E+, 1/2 hour form home. So far they were suppose to call back when a certain bike came in, no follow up. Also not open on weekends w/o appt, kind of inconvenient and possibly over priced.


at this point my question to the forum is what quality bikes come from the factory ready to roll but can be modded by non oem parts? and I would ask anyone in the DC area willing to help , demo, show me there ride, clubs, or any other info please contact me

Thanks

Mark

[ambroseliao]

Hi Mark,

There are a few of us (ebikers) in the DC area. GCinDC, dBaker, myself, ambroseliao, and number1cruncher. We all have bikes that are fitted with kits that we've souped up to meet our performance needs.

If you're looking for a quality bike that is not a kit bike, you won't find them much better than the E+ bikes. They are very well made and if you're only 1/2 hour from them, they are worth a serious look. The other two options are Optibike, but they are based in Colorado, and Stealth which is based in Australia, but opening up distribution here in the USA. Both Opti and Stealth are in the high end so expect to pay $$$ for them. The E+ is a relative bargain in comparison.

If you're looking for something that can be modded with OEM parts, then I would suggest going with a kit. You will definitely find it more affordable initially since you can start with the basics and improve them as you see fit. I've done this with my Tidalforce S-750 frame and e-bikekit motor. You can see from my signature and my blog that the bike has been great fun to work on and is a great hobby. You won't find better technical knowledge than here on Endless-sphere.

All the best,
Ambrose

[opimax]

I sent a PM to Ambrose, think it went through???

Mark

[ambroseliao]

I didn't get it!

Did you click the PM button below my picture?

Ambrose

[amberwolf]

But both what the website communicates and what was written back to me are stating that 500 watts is delivered while consuming only 250 watts equivalent from the battery. Is that even possible (this coming from my posture as a non-engineer/electrician)?

No.

It is more likely that only 250 watts is delivered by the motor to the wheel, while consuming 500 watts from the battery.

If the motor is drawing reserves from the battery at only a 250 watt rate, isn't the real result that a 500 watt motor has been reduced to a 250 watt motor for the period it is drawing at this rate?

Yes.

Although it is more likley really only a 200W motor (or less) at that point, as it is not 100% efficient (probably not even 80%).

Unless I have misunderstood everything I have tried to learn about this subject over the years, it is not possible to have a 500 watt motor somehow deliver 500 continuous watts while drawing from the batterypack energy at the rate a 250 watt motor would draw.

Correct.

What am I missing about this marvelous motor that delivers 500 watts while drawing at the rate of a 250 watt motor?

That it doesn't exist.

It's all marketing-speak, and they probably have no idea what they are talking about. Probably no idea what they're selling, either.

And based on some posts and reviews around the web, they're not even selling the same thing all the time; rebranding at least two totally different systems as the same model of their own system, based on what at least one post claims--what he received looked nothing like the bikes they claim to be selling.

[Green Machine]

Wow a lot of first time posters to this thread...

it seems like consumers are really waiting for ready to consume off the shelf electric bike.

I woulnt know where to start recommending a descent one...maybe pi-cycle?

[opimax]

the pm is in my out box or maybe it went???trying to contract you , we live less than 2 miles apart it looks like. I will be in Beach dr and Conn headed up to Rockville tonight as almost always when I ride during the week. love to see your bike and learn MORE!

Mark

I would enjoy ebikes as hobby but have no time to ride and fix/upgrade. it is time I need to ride which I dont do enough so no kit. I need to level some hills, go a little further, not depend on hills to decide which way to go, etc. I am not happy enough w/my current trek 7300 to want to upgrade it so again a new bike. probably not a Busettii. Reminds me of Bose , more spent on marketing than the products.

1 concern w/e+ is the battery tech seems old, nickle. They have newer but not in the wheel and must buy their battery, pretty expensive. also told by the salesman that when riding their bike must have at least set on 1 or it will cog, no free wheel. I hope to be riding electric starting next season.

[Ykick]

I would enjoy ebikes as hobby but have no time to ride and fix/upgrade.

Thought your OP says you wanted to mod?

Anyway, have you looked at A2B or perhaps Stromer?

NiMH? I used it for many years and found minor weight/size savings over SLA. But low C rate plus fast self-discharge didn't leave me with a good impression.

IMO - your best bet may be find a local expert/builder and comission a build. Ambrose and his contacts should be good folks to get to know.