Hi-Powered Cycles

[richirich1113]

Yes, but if you are worried about warranty service for flat tires you buy from someone local and not across the world. If you dont buy something thats driving distance from you any warranty service from anybody is going to be a hassle. It would be most difficult for HPC to fix Hugues problems in Switzerland.
I live Washigton and HPC is So. Cal . So i should ship the bike to cali for a flat tire cuz i ran over some glass because its still under warranty?
You have such a hatred for HPC that it seems you could just be a competitor trying to sell bikes, just like im accused of working for them. It goes both ways .

P.S. ive unsuscribed from this tread, im tired of it filling my inbox

[BlackArrow]

I live Washigton and HPC is So. Cal . .

I know you write it so many times…

You have such a hatred for HPC .

I don't hate them you can build something better, faster, reliable, for less that's it and their specs are overated…

That it seems you could just be a competitor trying to sell bikes.

Yeah right, I don't have any website and nothing to sell and unlike you I don't recommend this expensive solution for a newbie…

Just like im accused of working for them.

May be, may be not time will tell ...

At the end, I'm not worried by flat issues , I'm worried about brake issues, motor issues, electronics issues (hall sensors, fets, controllers) and wires.

Black Arrow

[Hugues]

....

- broke presta valve, solved (HPC ebike)
- 4 or 5 flats, now ok with Schwalbe Marathon (HPC ebike original tyres, before replacement)
- crystalyte hub wire damages, 4 or 5 times, solved with DrBass torque arms and mods (HPC ebike with not torque arms)
- blown halls, repaired (Motor HPC ebike )
- struggling to make my new infineon controller work, solved (ebikes new controller from ebike.ca)
- problems with throttle, solved (HPC ebike)
- loose wires in battery harness, solved (HPC ebike)
- blown FET in controller, solved (Is the original controller or the Infinieon, i didn't know)
- problems with Magura e-brake switch, 2 times, found source of problem (HPC ebike)
- battling to bleed my brakes properly, that one was tough, finally solved by buying bleeding kit (HPC ebike, didn't bleed them correctly or verififed them before shipping)
- noisy brakes, long struggle, solved (HPC ebike once again, no check and nor verifications before shipping)
- lost 30% studs on first ride with winter tire, solved

For me it's allot of trouble for an expensive "turn key" solution even for a noob or an experiment user and it's really worse after only "6" month of using it, no matter what you think about it ... good day!
Black Arrow

I REALLY did not want to continue this thread but you oblige me because you quote me and add inaccurate comments of yours above. Here are the facts:
- broke presta valve, solved (HPC ebike) NOT REALLY it was the first time i inflated a tire with presta valve and used a hand pump. I would have broken any other presta valve for the first time.
- 4 or 5 flats, now ok with Schwalbe Marathon (HPC ebike original tyres, before replacement) TRUE, but if you check my other posts, you see that I lost 30% of studs on my Marathon winter. Do you want to bash Schwalbe also while we're at it ?
- crystalyte hub wire damages, 4 or 5 times, solved with DrBass torque arms and mods (HPC ebike with not torque arms) FALSE bike came with torque arms. It would have been ok if i did not change my controller (infineon from ebikes.ca) and added regen. Regen is tougher on torque arms.
- blown halls, repaired (Motor HPC ebike ) Common, how many people have blown halls ? they only bought their hub from HPC ?
- struggling to make my new infineon controller work, solved (ebikes new controller from ebike.ca)
- problems with throttle, solved (HPC ebike), FALSE, other throttle
- loose wires in battery harness, solved (HPC ebike) CORRECT
- blown FET in controller, solved (Is the original controller or the Infinieon, i didn't know) FALSE, it was infineon
- problems with Magura e-brake switch, 2 times, found source of problem (HPC ebike) FALSE, bought them from a german reseller
- battling to bleed my brakes properly, that one was tough, finally solved by buying bleeding kit (HPC ebike, didn't bleed them correctly or verififed them before shipping) FALSE, brakes were ok from day one, i had to bleed them after i installed my brake switch
- noisy brakes, long struggle, solved (HPC ebike once again, no check and nor verifications before shipping) only HPC produces noisy brakes, fine.
- lost 30% studs on first ride with winter tire, solved FALSE, not sold by HPC


You also said i never received support from HPC, that's not correct. They did guide me and sent me back a replacement battery pack. For the rest, i preferred to ask on the forum with pictures and everything, i learn a lot this way and i thank all those who help here.

WHen someone reads this thread, they can see that people who bought from HPC are satisfied, those who did not, claim their product/service is not good. As for their power claims, maybe they push their figures a bit, but the power and range of my bike is beyond my expectations, and that's worth the money i spent.

[BlackArrow]

Hi Hughes,

Thank you for the accurate facts, your right blowing fets is nothing unusal for anyone, bleeding brakes correctly is never an easy task; upgrading component on an ebike is generally a source of problems.

To make the facts straight, I never said anything about your stud tires… I never own Schwable Marathon tire and I have nothing to say about them.

I hope when someone read this post he realizes that he can make a better ebike, with better or similar range and performance for less and he can keep is money for other goodies. Because on both ebikes he need to fix the same issues as custom build and he need a forum like ES to fix all of them and that's the point!

Sorry if I have offended you.
Black Arrow

[nechaus]

DAMM RIGHT!!!

you can make a better ebike and even pay less...

Id hate for anyone to buy that crap


HPC bikes are more like second hand car dealership.. they dribble
Stealth bikes are more like a high end dealership, they don't need to dribble at all...
IF your product is good, it should almost be able to sell it self.

im going to copy and paste directly from HPC website

"High performance Electric Bikes! With our unique combination of state of the art Lithium batteries, high performance motors, and high quality components, these are the best performing electric bikes you will find on the market!"

State of the art!!! cough cough


"The FUTURE is here today! We offer the highest quality and best peforming bikes on the market! Browse our selection of the top of the line electric bikes and e-bike conversion kits as well as e-bike accessories"

The future is here today !!!! ?? Glass half empty or half full
Top of the line !!!! ?? I dont see anything that is top of the line ... just the dribble
Best Performing bikes on the market !!! ??? come on



See what i mean!!! they dribble... this is not good marketing.


Perhaps the director should wet his fingers and put them in a light bulb socket. Just kidding!!

[The Mighty Volt]

I always felt that HPC were too expensive and pushed the boundaries with their hyperbole and sales puffery.

[Rodney64]

Does anyone know What distance does the 2000 watt motor get with the 10 amp battery

[Hugues]

Does anyone know What distance does the 2000 watt motor get with the 10 amp battery

hi,

with my Crystalyte HT35 and their 10ah 21s pack i do 40 km BUT with 1'000m positive altitude change also.
Difficult to estimate for a flat ride only, but in my opinion i can get close to 60 km
bike is 30kgs

hope this helps

[Rodney64]

Re: Hugues Thanks are you still using hi power cycles batteries. I would rather buy a battery which is already set up.

[Hugues]

Re: Hugues Thanks are you still using hi power cycles batteries. I would rather buy a battery which is already set up.

definitely,
i have 2'500 km on the original batteries, using bike for my daily commute and the week-end fun ride !

[richirich1113]

Re: Hugues Thanks are you still using hi power cycles batteries. I would rather buy a battery which is already set up.

definitely,
i have 2'500 km on the original batteries, using bike for my daily commute and the week-end fun ride !

And my bike is still kicking butt too.

[USMC7578]

I bought a bike from HPC May of 2010. Nothing but trouble. I have gone through 3 controllers and 2 motors. They are pushing too much juice through the motors. You can't put 2400 watts through a 600 watt BMC motor. All you have to do is go onto the BMC website. It was my first E bike and it was a very expensive lesson. Between parts and postage and the initial cost of the bike I've sunk about 2700.00 into it for 900 miles of use. It is now upside down in my garage waiting for a new set up from Ebikekit. Never again!!!!!!!!!!!

[nechaus]

Sorry to hear.

they are a waste.

[hi-powercycles]

Hey USMC,
I would be happy to help you out with what you need. Shoot us an email!

Allow me to set the record straight. I read a lot of nonsense on this forum from uninformed individuals and it is time to address this once and for all. I am baffled as to the accusations of us being misleading. We are completely forthright and honest with everything we publish on the website. For example, speed runs are made with a 170 lb rider and are two way averages measured on BOTH GPS and Radar, there is absolutely NO error with this. Range estimates are 170 lb. riders, No pedaling, flat ground (we measure at the beach), no to little wind, 2 way average once again. Our 51v 10Ah Lifepo4 battery (51.2v nominal, 16s and tests at 10.5 Ah at 1-1.5C discharge) can go on average 27-30 miles @ at a light 18 mph cruise. This battery on our website is claimed to have a 25-27 mile maximum range no pedaling. There is nothing deceptive about this whatsoever. Finally our power ratings are based on controller output. For example, our 2000W system uses our 51v 10Ah lifepo4 battery system with a 40A controller which will output a continuous 2000W under acceleration or hill climbing. Instantaneous peak numbers of course are higher than this. Our 3500W systems use 78V (nominal) LiPo and are paired with a custom 45A controller. This provides 3510 Watts under acceleration and hill climbing. Once again Peak numbers are higher.

I do want to apologize personally to people who were put off by some of our offerings in the past. Namely the BMC V3 motor- as it was very prone to breaking under higher power levels. This was due to high inefficiency at higher power levels that caused the heat to build up very quickly. We have learned from this whole episode and have developed a very strict testing regime before we go into production of any of our new motor designs. On top of that, we no longer sell ANY off the shelf motor systems, and never will again. We only sell custom OEM'd motors for both our geared and gearless motors that allow for more efficiency and higher power output.

I want to say thank you to those of you who have purchased from us in the past and were pleased with our products and customer service. It is not easy to stick your neck out and be attacked by the Do-it-yourself crowd at every turn. That goes a long way with us, (and we know who you are) and would love to help you guys out whenever you give us the chance.

This year marks some huge changes for us as a company, and to those who have intelligently critiqued us in the past- Thank you! We have constantly striven to learn from our past mistakes, we have taken your advice and matured as a company. We have come a long way in our first 4 years. Some new things to look forward to this year- 1) Custom built frames hand assembled and welded here in Los Angeles, CA. 2) Continuously evolving custom OEM'd battery and motor systems that will offer the highest performance in the industry. And most importantly, 3) A firm commitment to providing the absolute best and most responsive customer service possible.

Although there are some people you will never please, it is our commitment that we will never stop trying. Here's to a fantastic 2012! Thank you and God Bless.

[nechaus]

Hey USMC,
I would be happy to help you out with what you need. Shoot us an email!

Allow me to set the record straight. I read a lot of nonsense on this forum from uninformed individuals and it is time to address this once and for all. I am baffled as to the accusations of us being misleading. We are completely forthright and honest with everything we publish on the website. For example, speed runs are made with a 170 lb rider and are two way averages measured on BOTH GPS and Radar, there is absolutely NO error with this. Range estimates are 170 lb. riders, No pedaling, flat ground (we measure at the beach), no to little wind, 2 way average once again. Our 51v 10Ah Lifepo4 battery (51.2v nominal, 16s and tests at 10.5 Ah at 1-1.5C discharge) can go on average 27-30 miles @ at a light 18 mph cruise. This battery on our website is claimed to have a 25-27 mile maximum range no pedaling. There is nothing deceptive about this whatsoever. Finally our power ratings are based on controller output. For example, our 2000W system uses our 51v 10Ah lifepo4 battery system with a 40A controller which will output a continuous 2000W under acceleration or hill climbing. Instantaneous peak numbers of course are higher than this. Our 3500W systems use 78V (nominal) LiPo and are paired with a custom 45A controller. This provides 3510 Watts under acceleration and hill climbing. Once again Peak numbers are higher.

I do want to apologize personally to people who were put off by some of our offerings in the past. Namely the BMC V3 motor- as it was very prone to breaking under higher power levels. This was due to high inefficiency at higher power levels that caused the heat to build up very quickly. We have learned from this whole episode and have developed a very strict testing regime before we go into production of any of our new motor designs. On top of that, we no longer sell ANY off the shelf motor systems, and never will again. We only sell custom OEM'd motors for both our geared and gearless motors that allow for more efficiency and higher power output.

I want to say thank you to those of you who have purchased from us in the past and were pleased with our products and customer service. It is not easy to stick your neck out and be attacked by the Do-it-yourself crowd at every turn. That goes a long way with us, (and we know who you are) and would love to help you guys out whenever you give us the chance.

This year marks some huge changes for us as a company, and to those who have intelligently critiqued us in the past- Thank you! We have constantly striven to learn from our past mistakes, we have taken your advice and matured as a company. We have come a long way in our first 4 years. Some new things to look forward to this year- 1) Custom built frames hand assembled and welded here in Los Angeles, CA. 2) Continuously evolving custom OEM'd battery and motor systems that will offer the highest performance in the industry. And most importantly, 3) A firm commitment to providing the absolute best and most responsive customer service possible.

Although there are some people you will never please, it is our commitment that we will never stop trying. Here's to a fantastic 2012! Thank you and God Bless.

Wow,

I just read nonsense

Most of the individuals on this forum are more informed than you with electric bikes.
You should do less forum posting and more thinking about how you can make your bikes less of a rip off.
Start with some proper instrumentation instead of using a radar gun.
How about some proper temp monitoring/recording while riding and setting your bikes to run in the most efficient way.
use your equipment more intelligently.
your selling bikes for $5000 Id expect to get $5000 worth of VALUE
Maybe your bike controllers are made out of gold

[neptronix]

Our 51v 10Ah Lifepo4 battery (51.2v nominal, 16s and tests at 10.5 Ah at 1-1.5C discharge) can go on average 27-30 miles @ at a light 18 mph cruise. This battery on our website is claimed to have a 25-27 mile maximum range no pedaling. There is nothing deceptive about this whatsoever.

Except the fact that you don't mention that your test speed is at 18mph on the website. At least i can't find any mention of it.

One example:
http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?productId=117&categoryId=28

I can select a "50mph" "4000w" motor here and a 10AH battery.. it says 44 miles. No mention of the 18mph figure.

http://www.hi-powercycles.com/product.sc?productId=12&categoryId=5

You say 27miles here with pedaling under 'optimum conditions' on a "1500w" motor, but do not mention the speed.
Nonetheless, that is totally unrealistic as well.

Wow, talk about non informative and non scientific. You leave out all sorts of information in your listings, so i can't even calculate how exaggerated your numbers are. How often do you get calls when a customer thinks their battery is defective because they're only getting 10 miles of range even though you promised 44 and he's holding the throttle down and not pedaling since you're not giving him a proper gear ratio to pedal at anyway? ( your bikes look like they're geared for maybe 20mph like most mountain bikes are. )

51v 10Ah lifepo4 battery system with a 40A controller which will output a continuous 2000W under acceleration or hill climbing.

You're seriously selling a lifepo4 battery & controller setup to run at 4C constant? But you're rating the capacity and cycle life at 1C? This makes sense if we're talking about A123 cells.. or you have some magic unobtainium lifepo4 we've never heard about. Because normal lifepo4 will take a dump in a very short time period under that kind of use.

I do want to apologize personally to people who were put off by some of our offerings in the past. Namely the BMC V3 motor- as it was very prone to breaking under higher power levels. This was due to high inefficiency at higher power levels that caused the heat to build up very quickly.

It's nice to hear an apology to the public, but i don't know why you sold them overpowered for so many years even though you knew they were burning up. You're now selling your crystalyte motors overpowered ( 50mph/4kW continuous on a motor that can't even begin to do that continuously ) at power levels that we know will blow the motors again... hm.. do we get an apology for the Crystalyte motors blowing up in another 4 years?

Although there are some people you will never please, it is our commitment that we will never stop trying. Here's to a fantastic 2012! Thank you and God Bless.

Trying is not good enough. Not when a group of amateur hobbyists know how to put an electric bike better than you do. How about you hire some people to test things before you sell them, for one?

[richirich1113]

Its funny, 4 people in this thread actually own a bike from HPC and only one has a complaint with what they have. If it wasnt for the fact that everyone has at some point had a problem with what they have gotten from somewhere more than half this forum would not exsist.

Its ridiculous that there are more people ready to bash them that dont have one of their bikes than there are people that own one and have a complaint.

Please post pics of what you got.....this is my HPC bike

[hi-powercycles]

Hello Neptronix.
1)Good point about the 18mph cruise speed. It is now listed under the FAQ section. http://hi-powercycles.com/contactus.sc
2)We have found that our customers average anywhere from 13-22 Amps over the course of a ride. So we find a 10Ah rating at ~1.5C of our Lifepo4 batteries to be very acceptable.
3)We are not selling overpowered motors to the public whatsoever. Keep in mind, these are not your standard HS series motors, they are specifically made for higher power applications. As of right now, our testing protocol is 25% higher than rated wattage for 3 months in an abusive, stressful environment (i.e. offroad, constant hill climbing, drag racing, basically replicating the worst a customer can dish out). If it passes the test, then we offer it. Since Crystalyte started custom making us our motors, there has not been one motor that burnt up, and really no problems at all to speak of.
4)We do appreciate your advice/criticism. Thanks.

[neptronix]

Damnit, it's so hard to get mad at you when you're so nice.

1) You need to mention this on your product descriptions, not just in the FAQs. People are going to skip over the FAQs.
Also, the selection of motors that run on different speeds confuse things further. Efficiency at part throttle is going to be different. a 51v battery versus a 71/87v battery are going to use vastly different power levels as well.



2) & 3) I find that hard to believe. There is a tendency to use all the power available to you. 13-22A is putzing along around 20mph on most of your setups. I know some people buy a Corvette and use it to get groceries, but GM doesn't build a Corvette with a tiny radiator and gas tank that will blow a headgasket and/or run out of fuel in under 100 miles, now do they? your motor/controller/battery setups run continuous on what is normally a safe peak value.

As for your motors being special - really? do they have 8 gauge silver wires like the BMCs you were trying to sell for ~$800 & that makes 'em different? you've always made claims about your motors being special but never had any proof.. What hub motor does 4000w continuous up a hill? I don't know of one - maybe the cromotor? your 2 most expensive bikes seem to feature a BMC motor on them and claim to have a 30 speed drivetrain. A hub motor that is powerful enough to do 4000w continuously outside of it's efficiency band is not going to have room for a 10 speed freewheel.

Again - not unless you have some unobtainium motor that produces more power that the Crystalyte 54xx ( will take a 3-4 speed freewheel, tops ), or Greyborg hubzilla ( accepts up to a 1 speed freewheel )

4) I'm shocked that you have not blown a Crystalyte motor yet. I seriously wonder if you are being honest.

p.s. why are your product pics photoshopped and not actual pictures of the product ...?

Hello Neptronix.
1)Good point about the 18mph cruise speed. It is now listed under the FAQ section. http://hi-powercycles.com/contactus.sc
2)We have found that our customers average anywhere from 13-22 Amps over the course of a ride. So we find a 10Ah rating at ~1.5C of our Lifepo4 batteries to be very acceptable.
3)We are not selling overpowered motors to the public whatsoever. Keep in mind, these are not your standard HS series motors, they are specifically made for higher power applications. As of right now, our testing protocol is 25% higher than rated wattage for 3 months in an abusive, stressful environment (i.e. offroad, constant hill climbing, drag racing, basically replicating the worst a customer can dish out). If it passes the test, then we offer it. Since Crystalyte started custom making us our motors, there has not been one motor that burnt up, and really no problems at all to speak of.
4)We do appreciate your advice/criticism. Thanks.

[neptronix]

BTW if you want to shut me up about your motor power ratings, show me the proof. Pike's peak hill climb is coming up very soon. I will be competing as well as zombiess who is selling the greyborg hubzilla. Optibike should be there as well.

Bring one of your top end (3500w-5000w ) single hub motored bikes tuned the same way you would sell it to a customer, plus a super huge battery, and come ride with us.

http://www.ridepikespeak.com/

If your motor does not melt down at 100% throttle continuous doing your rated wattage, I promise you ( and you can get this in writing ) that you will never hear a negative peep from me again.

To all others...
Check out the ebike.ca simulator and see how long 10AH / 72V lasts at speeds in the 30-50mph ranges. See what happens to even the larger motors when you dump 3000w continuous into them and point them up a long hill.

http://ebikes.ca/simulator/

[hi-powercycles]

Yes, we are being honest. Please refer to this thread and see some real world results for yourself: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36826&start=15

He used a custom wind on a 3rd gen. revision of a HS motor. We will receive 4th gen. shipment which have new shorter axles, and thicker phases. This is to go along with some tweaks of the controller as well. To spill our secret sauce is to invite our competition to copy us, so it makes no sense to do that! Line up one of our motors with a standard HS/HT same controller, same amps, etc. In a drag race, you will easily see the fruits of our labor!

We will at this point retire from this conversation, as we have said what needed to be said and feel there is nothing more to say. Goodnight to Neptronix and all on this forum. Time to sleep!

P.S.- The one drawback of the simulator on ebikes.ca is that the time a motor will last on a given power level is greatly underestimated. Once you put a motor in the real world, spinning (not static as in the simulator) and with airflow at 30+ MPH the amount of time you can operate a motor at a given power level is substantially increased.

[neptronix]

Are you referring to the bottom post where it mentions how fast your motor goes on 2000w continuous? faster because it is a slower wind that creates higher torque on less amps? what has that got to do with the continuous power handling?

That proves that... you've got a slower winding

Thicker phases don't increase the maximum power handling capability of your motor, so i'm not sure why you even mentioned it. They increase efficiency only if you are losing significant power on the way to the motor.

So what you said had nothing to do with continuous power handling.

And here you go ducking out of verifying your claims again This is the second, maybe third time you've done this when i held your feet to the fire over your wild claims. I'll reimburse your entry fee if you come! I'll even bring a bungee cord that you can hook onto my bike so i can tow you up the mountain when your motor melts down. It's a fantastic view up there anyway.

[USMC7578]

I will send you an email today.

[hi-powercycles]

Neptronix,
Without wasting anymore of your time or ours:
This is the bottom line: Every single one of our bikes on the website are tried and true, thoroughly tested and guaranteed 100% reliable at their rated power levels.

[neptronix]

Neptronix,
Without wasting anymore of your time or ours:
This is the bottom line: Every single one of our bikes on the website are tried and true, thoroughly tested and guaranteed 100% reliable at their rated power levels.

Might wanna stay off these forums and keep to places where people don't know any better, IMHO.
As long as i'm here, you will not get away with lying to the public, sorry!
Go sell some 20AH 77 mile batteries and 5000w continuous crystalyte HT/HS's to some other suckers.

This is the bottom line: stop posting here because you have a chronic case of foot in mouth syndrome, don't seem to understand your product, and are bad at lying as well.