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[richirich1113]

ya, it doesnt matter. No matter what someone has or what they paid for it their will always be the people that will have to brag that what they can build or spend will always be better.

Blackarrow, Please build me 2-3 of the same bike i got from them for the same price, it sounds like a great deal or maybe you should start a prebuilt bike business- it sounds like you could make a fortune and put HPC out of business. Why just talk about it?

[BlackArrow]

ya, it doesnt matter. No matter what someone has or what they paid for it their will always be the people that will have to brag that what they can build or spend will always be better.

Blackarrow, Please build me 2-3 of the same bike i got from them for the same price, it sounds like a great deal or maybe you should start a prebuilt bike business- it sounds like you could make a fortune and put HPC out of business. Why just talk about it?

Richrich, long ago you have said that you never came back on this post and your back, curious attitude indeed Well a shame it's shame even if it cames from HPC, I don't mind if they are in business or not. If they are honest and stop lying to people like they do here , i will be more incline to recommend them to a newbie. Neptronix as point out many fails declaration from them and you can read them or not at your choice.

Send me 5000 $ and i will builld those 2 ebikes for you without shipping and handling

Black Arrow

[richirich1113]

It was another thread on HPc i said i wasnt coming back to.

As i pointed out a few posts up, that Neptronix had to agree with, there are no vendors (unless you want to spend $10,000 or more for a stealth or optibike) of prebuilt bikes that arent a piece of crap or limited to 20mph.

Two of my bikes for $5000+ shipping Is not really saving me any money over what i spent.

[BlackArrow]

It was another thread on HPc i said i wasnt coming back to.

As i pointed out a few posts up, that Neptronix had to agree with, there are no vendors (unless you want to spend $10,000 or more for a stealth or optibike) of prebuilt bikes that arent a piece of crap or limited to 20mph..

Lol buy a Phasor cycle frame and you can build a similar or better ebike than a Stealth for less then 5000 $ with the top speed of your choice… with more range, more power and better handling.

No HPC cycle can reach 60 Mph, well may be on a good slope downhill probably...

Two of my bikes for $5000+ shipping Is not really saving me any money over what i spent.

I know that's exactly my point too much money even for a single ebike ...even if it came's from HPC.

P.S. How much did you pay for your HPC ebike ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

[richirich1113]

Yep, and riding a phasor looking bike( nice looking but looks to much like a motorcycle) on the streets around here will definatly get you hasseled by the police. And when do you think Phasor is going to sell them prebuilt for $5,000?

If i wanted to buy 2 of the same bikes like i got from them i probabably would have only paid $5000+shipping so how is your deal better?

[BlackArrow]

Yep, and riding a phasor looking bike( nice looking but looks to much like a motorcycle) on the streets around here will definatly get you hasseled by the police.

Hum.. and the police let you go with this ebike a bit hard to believe to me but you know it.

And when do you think Phasor is going to sell them prebuilt for $5,000? ?

Humm... I never say that they sell them prebuilt for 5000 $, i have said that you can "build" your own ebike for this price.

Again how much did you paid for your HPC ebike ?

Black Arrow

[Ypedal]

I dont have that much of an issue with the price tag.. put time into a build you have to charge for it.. if people are willing to buy it.. then so be it..

however.. the marketing techniques get on my nerves...

[neptronix]

I dont have that much of an issue with the price tag.. put time into a build you have to charge for it.. if people are willing to buy it.. then so be it..

however.. the marketing techniques get on my nerves...

That's just it, in my eyes. You can go sell a bike with a 300% profit margin all day long and i don't give a crap. But when your product is badly engineered, tuned beyond the point of reliability, you are wildly dishonest in marketing it, then you won't hear the end of it from me.

[richirich1113]

I dont see where in there advertisment that they claim their 2500-3500 watts is continous. Thats what keeps being brought up.
Where are they claiming that it is continious power?

The set-up i had was rated 2500w but i am seeing 2800w peaks, so i dont get it.

[Ypedal]

i am seeing 2800w peaks, so i dont get it.

no kidding..

[richirich1113]

Ypedal, i dont know if your joking or what.

HPC does not claim its continous power. I have since added another one of there batteries to make 21s. That would be their 3500w system and at full throttle take offs and pulling steep hills ive seen as high as 3800w.

They do not claim this as continous power so being able to hit 3500w i dont see as misleading. If the bike couldnt pull that many watts no matter what the circumstance, Then ya i would have to say BS, but it does pull that and more.

[neptronix]

That's the problem. They don't explain anything. That mileage range is apparently calculated on flat land at 18mph for one. They didn't mention that on the site until i said something a week ago .. even then, it's hidden in the FAQs now and not on the battery description, or bike description pages.

But still, that is totally unrealistic. Nobody is going to buy a multi-thousand watt bike and run it at 18mph in perfect conditions. At 100% throttle, you're going to get 1/2-1/5th of those rated figures, depending on the setup.

So that in itself is skeezy.

And your peak power will be drawn continuously if you are headed up a hill, fighting a headwind, or maybe even going through a non-paved surface at high speeds. By doing that you will exceed the power capability of the motor and fry it eventually.

2500w is fine enough but they will sell you a HS/HT motor that will do 3500-5500w motor with up to a top speed of 55mph. People have blown these motors doing just a bit above 40mph. To sell them at that power level is just the kind of hi-powered-lie as when they sold BMC motors at 3000-4000w power levels and had those break continuously.

And HPC has claimed that these motors are different or customized.... yeah, you got a slow wind and bigger phase wires.. that does not improve the power handling..!

Rich, you are lucky because you bought one of the low powered bikes that was actually rated at a sane power level. You probably won't have problems with your motor ever, unless you try to tackle a serious grade for multiple miles. And i guess you'll get the battery range promised if you run around 20mph but you still overpaid pretty massively versus building your own bike that could have been faster, with better range, and better build quality at a lower price.



But here i am, repeating myself. Why are we still arguing about this?

[neptronix]

They do not claim this as continous power so being able to hit 3500w i dont see as misleading. If the bike couldnt pull that many watts no matter what the circumstance, Then ya i would have to say BS, but it does pull that and more.

Where do they mention that that's not the continuous power and why do they not mention the continuous power, then?
All other production ebikes are rated on continuous power, NOT peak power.
Another case of HPC's deceptive marketing tactics.

Every eBike part ( motor, controller, battery ) i have ever purchased has had a continuous power rating on it. Peak power is never mentioned.

Otherwise my MAC would have been sold as a 4000w motor, my 20C lipos would have been sold as 50C, my 12FET would have been sold as a 80A controller.. Gosh, i'd have some pretty impressive equipment on my hands if only a professional liar had sold me them

[BlackArrow]

Otherwise my MAC would have been sold as a 4000w motor, my 20C lipos would have been sold as 50C, my 12FET would have been sold as a 80A controller.. Gosh, i'd have some pretty impressive equipment on my hands if only a professional liar had sold me them

Right on Neptronix, good one

Black Arrow

[hi-powercycles]

We actually do appreciate your guys' input. I see where some of you are coming from. We will make some changes accordingly. Thank you.
-Stock photos will be phased out for actual shots of the bikes
-Power levels will be more clear that they are NOT a continuous rating of the motor, it is just nominal battery voltage x current output of the controller (actual power output)
-Range will be indicated as a maximum range @ 18-20 MPH.
Contrary to what people may think, we do have our own motors, they are more efficient than any Crystalyte HS (less heat buildup at higher wattages), and in one full year of selling our gearless motors, there has NOT been one instance of a burnt motor. We know what we are doing and we keep things at a safe level, but at the same time push "accepted" boundaries. That's what HPC is all about.

[ohzee]

We actually do appreciate your guys' input. I see where some of you are coming from. We will make some changes accordingly. Thank you.
-Stock photos will be phased out for actual shots of the bikes
-Power levels will be more clear that they are NOT a continuous rating of the motor, it is just nominal battery voltage x current output of the controller (actual power output)
-Range will be indicated as a maximum range @ 18-20 MPH.
Contrary to what people may think, we do have our own motors, they are more efficient than any Crystalyte HS (less heat buildup at higher wattages), and in one full year of selling our gearless motors, there has NOT been one instance of a burnt motor. We know what we are doing and we keep things at a safe level, but at the same time push "accepted" boundaries. That's what HPC is all about.

Having followed this thread for a while and agreeing both sides have had valid points I am impressed with HPC sticking around and giving your point/view.

You seem to have some happy customers who like your products and I wish you much luck and hope you continue to stick around.

[neptronix]

HPC, that is a big improvement.

+ Real photos are definitely needed. I'm glad you'll be switching out the photoshopped ones.

+ Mention the peak power, then the total continuous power at 100% throttle at whatever given voltage you are supplying for a bike. Then users can know what they're going to draw during acceleration / during a hill, and what they're going to draw at the 80% unloaded speed that the bike will cruise at.

+ 20mph should be the absolute slowest speed you rate your bikes at. That's the federal limit. Mention the speed on all the product pages. They can figure out how much the motors guzzle at higher speeds to defeat aerodynamics on their own. If you are going over 20mph in most states anyway, you are doing something that is not legal anyway.

As for your motor handling.. even if you have a 40mm Crystalyte HS/HT motor, I'd say 4kW-5kW is stretching it still and you're going to have some blown motor complaints when someone buys one of those and thinks they can topple a multi-mile monster hill. Watch as people blow their shiny brand new Crystalyte 54xx's on that kind of power.

Prove me wrong at the pike's peak hill climb this year, and i'll shut my mouth and hand you props on delivering a great product.

[Philistine]

Watch as people blow their shiny brand new Crystalyte 54xx's on that kind of power.

Are you joking Neptronix? The 54s will be able to run 4-5 kw without skipping a beat. I used to run that on my X5303 stock, unvented, until my 20ah battery was drained, and it didn't even break a sweat.

[neptronix]

Watch as people blow their shiny brand new Crystalyte 54xx's on that kind of power.

Are you joking Neptronix? The 54s will be able to run 4-5 kw without skipping a beat. I used to run that on my X5303 stock, unvented, until my 20ah battery was drained, and it didn't even break a sweat.

On hills for long periods of time?
Were you doing it in a 26" wheel like hipower cycles sets their bikes up, or something smaller?

When i was speccing out motors for my hill climb, i noticed that when presented a 7% hill for an extended period of time, the 53xx motors were not much better than the crystalyte HT/HS.. 10 minutes 'till overheat on 3000w constant in a 26" wheel.

The story is different in a much smaller wheel.

Even zombiess of the greyborg fame advises running the hubzilla motor with 5-10mm wider magnets than the 54xx in a 26" wheel at beyond 4kW. He says a 20" wheel is critical.

So i maintain my statement, and i hope someone proves me wrong.

Even if hipower cycles is running the 40mm stator version of the HS/HT ( they'd have to be running nothing larger than that on these bikes, otherwise a 7-8 speed freewheel would just not fit ), they then have a motor that has less heat dissipation material than the 54xx..

This is all theoretical.

Bring all it all to pike's peak i say, if you want a real test of continuous power handling...

[nechaus]

HEY I want to buy a 90 watt solar panel from HPC for $1499.99


Maybe HPC would get more customers if they spent more time on a CAD program rather then using MS paint to edit and change the way their bikes look.

[neptronix]

[Philistine]

On hills for long periods of time?
Were you doing it in a 26" wheel like hipower cycles sets their bikes up, or something smaller?

In a 26inch wheel, with Maxxis Hookworms (so it was not only 26inch, but with very tall tyres), plus I weigh 95kg, and I refuse to pedal, and I ride WOT everywhere. But I concede not on steep hills by any means. Where I live is decidedly unhilly, with very few decent hills. But I don't think it is fair to test the honesty of HPC's claims by the standard "Can it do those claims on Pike's Peak". I don't even think it is fair to say that their claims have to withstand "multi-mile hills". For example there are no multi mile hills where I live. But I agree about the smaller H motors. I run my HS35 on 4kw constant, but after 15-20km it is getting smoking hot, and you can smell the varnish, and it is definately at its limits, even in the unhilly environment of my town. But the X5s are just a totally different kettle of fish, that is why people are happy to lug around the weight of a small house attached to the rear of their bike.

[richirich1113]

With all this BS in power claims- rated power to continous power. Dont car manufactuars do the same thing with their claims?
When you see a commercial for a new car and they claim the new (such and such) now has 260 horsepower, isnt that just an achieved maximum rating?]

Do you expect that your going to be able to just put the pedal to the floor and drive around at 260 horsepower all day, drive up mountains with the tach peged pushing the car at the full 260hp continously with out ever worrying that something is not going to overheat and blow?

Is it frudulent advertising then to say the car is 260hp if you cant drive it pulling the whole 260hp from start to stop on every drive? Does the owner manual say that because the car is 260hp that it is okay to drive it continuosly right at the rpm redline?

So whats the really fricken big deal on how they advertse their stuff. So they photoshop the pictures BFD. If you dont like their website dont look at it. Who are you that they should have to impress you? Arte you buying anything from them?

Does'nt it really come down to- Are their customers happy with what they got and how well they will handle their warranty service??? If there is any complaints, is'nt this is where it should be focused at!

And who cares if you can brag that you "can build it cheaper" Thats not the point. Were talking about having something pre-built for you. So what , you think they dont pay rent, utilities,have to buy in large quantities,have wages insurances, advertising and whatever misc. costs of doing business? Take a reality pill.

Putting them down without doing something better yourself does not make you look any smarter. jmho

[Ypedal]

the difference here is the car industry has established that guideline of posting up peak power..

ebike industry is and has not.. and i think should not.. HPC is not doing anyone but themselves favors here.

[BlackArrow]

Hey Richrich,

How much did you pay for your HPC ebike please ? And what kind of upgrades or repair have you done on it since them ? of course i mean something else the changing flates and chain.

Black Arrow