DD 9C 2810 - Cntrl Lyen 18Fet 4115 - Battery 38120HP & CADP

[Tommy L]

Not much use in throwing more than 2-3kw into a 9C2810. It holds a fairly steep incline at 60kph with near 4kw at the high voltage.

Your video is encouraging to me that my 2810 will be able to climb the 1,600ft I climb for my commute. I'm only going to be sustaining 2kw-ish through it. We'll see. Just waiting impatiently for my Doc torque arms to arrive. I'm not daring enough to ride without them on my soft aluminum dropouts. I've crashed enough to want to avoid it. Thanks for sharing the video.

I really think the 9C 2810 shines at 95v and 30amp. It pulls pretty good

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[Sacman]

Dooood!!!
Yes it's time to go LiPo!

[Sacman]

Definitely get those torque arms installed as soon as you can. Accelerating up to those speeds then hitting the regen puts a lot of reversing torque to wiggle your axle and loosen up the nuts holding your axle to your frame. I'd look into getting those Nordlock washers too if I were you.

How fast are you trying to go with your bike Tommy? ...and why did you chose the slower rpm 9C2810 motor then have to go with higher volt controller/battery combo to get speed? A month ago I got my 9C2810 motor from Methods too but I got it for my off-road DH bike which I intend to be riding at slower speeds and climbing up moderately steep hills. You can be sure I put 2 torque plates right away (one on each end of the axle).

I noticed on your video that your throttle response was twitchy. Did it get more twitchy when you upped the voltage? I'm planning to up my 18s LiPo (66.6v nominal, 75.1v hot off charger) to 24s LiPo (88.8v nominal, 100.2v hot off charger). Throttle response is nice wide and smooth now but wondering if it will get slightly twitchy as well. Maybe in your case the change to the new Lyen controller was what caused the different throttle response.

[Tommy L]

Definitely get those torque arms installed as soon as you can. Accelerating up to those speeds then hitting the regen puts a lot of reversing torque to wiggle your axle and loosen up the nuts holding your axle to your frame. I'd look into getting those Nordlock washers too if I were you.

How fast are you trying to go with your bike Tommy? ...and why did you chose the slower rpm 9C2810 motor then have to go with higher volt controller/battery combo to get speed? A month ago I got my 9C2810 motor from Methods too but I got it for my off-road DH bike which I intend to be riding at slower speeds and climbing up moderately steep hills. You can be sure I put 2 torque plates right away (one on each end of the axle).

I noticed on your video that your throttle response was twitchy. Did it get more twitchy when you upped the voltage? I'm planning to up my 18s LiPo (66.6v nominal, 75.1v hot off charger) to 24s LiPo (88.8v nominal, 100.2v hot off charger). Throttle response is nice wide and smooth now but wondering if it will get slightly twitchy as well.

Thanks DUDE for the response! lmao!

Yes I have the Doctor Bass Torque arms, but not installed. Yes, Nordlocks! I would like to try them for sure!
My drops outs are around 0.25" and the axle was real snug But I should still do the Locks/Torque arms.

Yes, I was very easy on the throttle (very slowly turning) . Lyen said that the HV might make it touchy.... and yes it is. I found that at
95v and 30amps on the CA the Methods Throttle was fine. It's nice to have Regen to haul you down from 70kph to 30kph then it's about over.
I also put those Juicy 3 Hydraulics on. This is a good move!

Why the 9C 2810...... First Price was right , 2 experimenting, 3 was planning on HV set up and wanted to keep watts to a minmum and just
go for the RPM and inefficiency

26lbs of LiFePO4 on your back is Awesome! lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[hjns]

Are you running 128v with a 9C 2810 or your HT3525?




Tommy L sends... \\m//

I did on both.... Now I am only running the HT at 30S, but within the next month it will be 9C in front and HT on the rear. Both on 30S lipo (126V HOC).

[hjns]

...and why did you chose the slower rpm 9C2810 motor then have to go with higher volt controller/battery combo to get speed? A month ago I got my 9C2810 motor from Methods too but I got it for my off-road DH bike which I intend to be riding at slower speeds and climbing up moderately steep hills.

Thanks DUDE for the response! lmao!

Why the 9C 2810...... First Price was right , 2 experimenting, 3 was planning on HV set up and wanted to keep watts to a minmum and just
go for the RPM and inefficiency

26lbs of LiFePO4 on your back is Awesome! lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

Similar kind of story for me. I choose the high torque versions with a high voltage setup in mind and limited current. And because the high torque versions should overheat less than the high speed versions when hill climbing.

[Tommy L]

Are you running 128v with a 9C 2810 or your HT3525?:) Tommy L sends... \\m//

I did on both.... Now I am only running the HT at 30S, but within the next month it will be 9C in front and HT on the rear. Both on 30S lipo (126V HOC).

I've read some posts here that say the two wheel set up is not worth the extra weight of an extra motor and controller.
I've also heard that running an extra motor and controller brings up efficiency over just the one motor.

I can't wait to hear back your results!

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[hjns]

I've read some posts here that say the two wheel set up is not worth the extra weight of an extra motor and controller.
I've also heard that running an extra motor and controller brings up efficiency over just the one motor.

I can't wait to hear back your results!

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

Well, it depends. I managed to get it running in March, and I was not happy with 2WD. However, now my commute has changed with more advantages for a 2WD setup, so I will try the 2WD again. No trails at this moment for me so a heavy bike is no issue. Hill climbing at >60km/h is an issue with only one motor. We will see if 2WD is indeed an improvement.

[Tommy L]

Well, it depends. I managed to get it running in March, and I was not happy with 2WD. However, now my commute has changed with more advantages for a 2WD setup, so I will try the 2WD again. No trails at this moment for me so a heavy bike is no issue. Hill climbing at >60km/h is an issue with only one motor. We will see if 2WD is indeed an improvement.

Absolutely! I was only thinking from an Efficiency point of view. I totally forgot the advantage of DIVIDED WATTS per wheel that would
be beneficial in a long hill climb. Gary from Golden Motor Canada had a 3 wheel drive set up! A third motor on his BOB Trailer.
I believe this is where he kept his battery packs too.

Looking forward to your findings!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

I'm about to take 36 of these to build and test a powerful bleed resistor 36S network.
This board will not let one of my 38120HP cells charge beyond 3.65v...... is the theory.

If anyone has been reading anything I post, my motto is: "Experiment - Observe - Take Notes".
I will build it, experiment, observe and take notes

Tommy L sends...... \\m// Rocking Onward \\m//

[Sacman]

Before I got into LiPo, three years ago I was running 24s of LiFePO4 cells that had BMS boards that had bleed resistors that balanced the pack and prevented the cells from overcharging. I remember one of the things I most disliked about that setup was how hot the resistors on the BMS boards got as the battery packs came up to full charge. The resistors on the BMS board got soo hot if I touched it with my hand I could not leave my hand on it for more than 10 seconds.

Yet that was normal operation for those "bleed type" BMS boards. I was afraid those "hot" boards were not good up against the cells that I eventually mounted them with a 1/4-inch gap from the rest of the battery pack. I had 2 of those battery packs (each sat at the bottom of separate saddle bags on the rear of the bike). Everytime I charged I had to remember to remove all other items from the saddle bags (except the batteries) to give better cooling to those BMS boards.

I'm about to take 36 of these to build and test a powerful bleed resistor 36S network.
This board will not let one of my 38120HP cells charge beyond 3.65v...... is the theory.

[Tommy L]

Yet that was normal operation for those "bleed type" BMS boards. I was afraid those "hot" boards were not good up against the cells that I eventually mounted them with a 1/4-inch gap from the rest of the battery pack. I had 2 of those battery packs (each sat at the bottom of separate saddle bags on the rear of the bike). Everytime I charged I had to remember to remove all other items from the saddle bags (except the batteries) to give better cooling to those BMS boards.

My plan is not to install them on the pack, but to clip them onto my bus bars during charge while pack is outside of my backpack. I've tested these
on my motorcycle (2003 Honda VTX1800C). I built a start battery in a 4S2P without this resistor circuit. Worked fine for almost a year. I kept a
close eye on the charge absorption every time I used the motorcycle. Then on one check I noticed that a parallel group was climbing, so I put this
resistor setup on, and it works great!

I figure the resistors would get very hot, hence the clip on and keep at a distance method I have Battery Medics, but for this size cell/5amp charger @40+ volts, the battery medics are not bleeding enough

I'm looking forward to putting this pack thru 20+ cycles. I've read here in the forums that they cells become more stable with more cycles. We'll see! lol
I see that you've mentioned that you've gone to Lipoly. Ypedal has got a pack now too! I just started a business called "Raw Velocity" selling LiFePO4 Motorcycle Start batteries! After testing LiFePO4 for a couple of years now, I'm a believer. Not sure is Lipoly is ready to stay on a motorcycle while constant voltage from the electrical system, but I'm positive that Lipoly will start anything, given the correct configuration.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Sacman]

My plan is not to install them on the pack, but to clip them onto my bus bars during charge while pack is outside of my backpack.
... I figure the resistors would get very hot, hence the clip on and keep at a distance method

Okay good if you only have one location where you will be doing your charging ...then keeping your bleed resistors with your charger is fine.
In my case, I had 2 charging stations (1 at home, and one at the office) and 35 miles of commute in between. So my BMS boards had to stay attached to my battery packs.

I see that you've mentioned that you've gone to Lipoly. Ypedal has got a pack now too!

Ypedal (Gaston) and I go back a few years now. He helped me and really saved my ass on my 1st ebike build. I went LiPo sometime in the middle of 2010 (on my 5th ebike build) and Ypedal was already running LiPo a few months ahead of me. But this latest LiPo pack Ypedal is building for his trike is the 1st time he's using the higher quality (and higher charge/discharge) NanoTech LiPo. Like most guys who've gone LiPo out here... once you go LiPo... you'll never want to go back to the other chemistry batts. We're trying to convert you too. Come to the DARK SIDE and join us Tommy... LOL

I just started a business called "Raw Velocity" selling LiFePO4 Motorcycle Start batteries! After testing LiFePO4 for a couple of years now, I'm a believer. Not sure is Lipoly is ready to stay on a motorcycle while constant voltage from the electrical system, but I'm positive that Lipoly will start anything, given the correct configuration.

Good luck with your business. I'm not sure what you mean by LiPo "not being ready to stay on a M/C while constant voltage from the electrical". I have no experience with M/C. Have you checked out the awesome e-motorcycles made by one of our forum members Jozzer in the UK?

[Tommy L]

Come to the DARK SIDE and join us Tommy... LOL

Good luck with your business. I'm not sure what you mean by LiPo "not being ready to stay on a M/C while constant voltage from the electrical". I have no experience with M/C. Have you checked out the awesome e-motorcycles made by one of our forum members Jozzer in the UK?

Yes! I will eventually come over to the Dark Side! lol

As for the motorcycle, it has a combustion engine. I use a 4S2P to start the engine and the electrical system of the motorcycle has an Alternator.
Lipo has been know to catch fire, so I'm not putting one in my VTX1800 for now....

Do you have a favorite Lipoly you use?

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

ouch! I went for a ride this morning and was trying the new Block Time of 0.1 from 1.0.
Not sure if it helped my top speed, but I wanted to run my 128v pack DOD to 80%.
All was well was almost home just one or two more Regens.

Pushed the button, hmmmmm not much, then thought to myself, if pack voltage is down now from an
extended ride, then I'm getting just outside the Regen Voltage. I pull up the drive way and stop.
Check the motor.... HOT... decide to drive around a bit at some medium speeds to cool the motor.
NO THROTTLE Pedaled up the street and back, and I didn't like that too much! lol

Now it's fault finding time.

Temp laser says motor: 198F
Controller: 89F
Battery Pack: 97F (not bad for inside a backpack)

First thought is .....Motor Fried! or Halls wires melted.
I pushed 3kw through the 9C 2810 for nearly 30minutes. A couple of times I pushed the switch to level 2 and brought her down to 1200watts, but didn't
last long. You get hooked on the 60-70km range easily. The Hoolagan is doing extremely well.

I just looked at the controller program settings. Low Voltage is set to 55/110v I possible hit that (I'm hoping).

Is there a special way to Reset the LYEN 18fet 4115?
Yes, trying to be wishful that I didn't fry the motor. lol

Tommy L sends...... \\m// The Adventure continues! \\m//
Is there a "I FRIED MY MOTOR" hall of shame list here in the ES Forum? lol

[Tommy L]

I built a 12s Resistor Bleed Network yesterday. I was using Battery Medics, but they cannot keep up to
bleed off enough to keep up with the charger once the charger hits the CV phase of charging. I was using
my precharge resistor to help bleed run away cells. Yes, a 100 watt light bulb with wires coming off the fixture! lol

Tommy L sends.... \\m// Rocking Onward every single day! \\m//

[Tommy L]

Hi Sam Texas!

I see the pic. Are the boxes bleed points?
Could I ask how you use it?

Thank you kindly!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[SamTexas]

Each of those small bolt is a direct connection to a balance wire (via the ATX connector). So 1 and 2 are the terminals for the 1st cell, 2 and 3 for the 2nd cell, etc... To bleed or charge any individual cells I use alligator clips to connect to the corresponding bolts. I can also bleed or charge multiple consecutive cells. If I want to bleed or charge cell 3, 4 and 5 simultaneously I use bolt #3 and #6.

The open square boxes are there to minimize accidental short between cells and for easier identification.

[Tommy L]

19s breakout board.JPG

Each of those small bolt is a direct connection to a balance wire (via the ATX connector). So 1 and 2 are the terminals for the 1st cell, 2 and 3 for the 2nd cell, etc... To bleed or charge any individual cells I use alligator clips to connect to the corresponding bolts. I can also bleed or charge multiple consecutive cells. If I want to bleed or charge cell 3, 4 and 5 simultaneously I use bolt #3 and #6.

The open square boxes are there to minimize accidental short between cells and for easier identification.

Nice Board Sam Texas!

Labeled too! I'm an old, if you call 49 old, retired Comms/Electronics from Canadian Military. Any electronics guy uses labels! Nice work!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

I'm a big believer that if you've got "WIRES" then you should have labels or color codes.

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[Tommy L]

Proper sized washers on free wheel side.......

Well, I'm thinking that my w/h will go down. Most here on ES talk about how DD Hubs do not free wheel very well.
They SURE DON'T if your Drive Sprocket is dragging against your drop out!

When I first installed this 9C 2810, it was dragging. Didn't think anything of this because of all the posts I've read here.

If you take a good look at the Wheel that you remove (original bicycle wheel), you'll see around 1/2" space between the free wheel and the threaded
part of the axle. This ensures that the free wheel doesn't rub against the drop out.

When I was testing this motor again today, I'm like thinking, this is not right and started removing the nuts from the rear swing arm.
And low and behold.....magic! So I found another spacer that was small enough to fit inside the free wheel diameter.
THAT'S BETTER!

Just how many w/h do you save when your not rubbing the free wheel against your rear drop out? lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[Sacman]

Tommy you're still not running your 9-speed freewheel are you? The 9-speed freewheel will most likely scrub on your frame's dropout unless you put the right spacer in between. And when you use those spacers you have to lightly pull the dropouts apart in order for the rear axle to drop into pace. Justin sells those spacers on ebikes.ca. Look in the motors section.

If the freewheel is rubbing against the frame you not only use up more watt-hours but you also put stress on the freewheel's bearings which heat up and eventually fail prematurely.

You're not pedaling so you don't really need 9-speeds. Most ebikers only use about 4 or 5 anyway. I changed my freewheel and shifters to 7-speed which allows plenty of room on the axle to fit in between the dropouts and not need any spacers.

Proper sized washers on free wheel side.......

Well, I'm thinking that my w/h will go down. Most here on ES talk about how DD Hubs do not free wheel very well.
They SURE DON'T if your Drive Sprocket is dragging against your drop out!

When I first installed this 9C 2810, it was dragging. Didn't think anything of this because of all the posts I've read here.

If you take a good look at the Wheel that you remove (original bicycle wheel), you'll see around 1/2" space between the free wheel and the threaded
part of the axle. This ensures that the free wheel doesn't rub against the drop out.

When I was testing this motor again today, I'm like thinking, this is not right and started removing the nuts from the rear swing arm.
And low and behold.....magic! So I found another spacer that was small enough to fit inside the free wheel diameter.
THAT'S BETTER!

Just how many w/h do you save when your not rubbing the free wheel against your rear drop out? lol

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[Sacman]

Tommy can you send me the hi-res pics of your openned 9C 2810 (the ones showing how the wires exit the axle from the inside as well as the the pic showing the wires fanning out at the PC board holding the hall sensors)? I'd like to see where's a good place to mount the temp sensor and run the wires out thru the axle. Thanks.

[Tommy L]

Tommy you're still not running your 9-speed freewheel are you? The 9-speed freewheel will most likely scrub on your frame's dropout unless you put the right spacer in between. And when you use those spacers you have to lightly pull the dropouts apart in order for the rear axle to drop into pace. Justin sells those spacers on ebikes.ca. Look in the motors section.

If the freewheel is rubbing against the frame you not only use up more watt-hours but you also put stress on the freewheel's bearings which heat up and eventually fail prematurely.

You're not pedaling so you don't really need 9-speeds. Most ebikers only use about 4 or 5 anyway. I changed my freewheel and shifters to 7-speed which allows plenty of room on the axle to fit in between the dropouts and not need any spacers.

I used the Freewheel I purchased from Methods

Tommy L sends.... \\m// Rocking Onward Every Single Day! \\m//

[Tommy L]

Tommy can you send me the hi-res pics of your openned 9C 2810 (the ones showing how the wires exit the axle from the inside as well as the the pic showing the wires fanning out at the PC board holding the hall sensors)? I'd like to see where's a good place to mount the temp sensor and run the wires out thru the axle. Thanks.

Were these pic high enough Res?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/raw-energy/

Tommy L sends..... \\m//