Fusin 1000W peak Geared Hubmotor kit w/ Cassette Splines/FW

[amberwolf]

Newsflash: If you forget to put sunscreen on, and ride with a shortsleeve shirt for several hours at midday in Phoenix summer, you will get a heckuva sunburn. I realized that I had not put it on about an hour after posting the above, as it really started to hurt as I loaded the dogfood and groceries into the trailer. My arms are the only really bad part; I smeared aloe vera on them from the plants I keep in the yard for this purpose, and it helps tremendously.


Second newsflash: Always pay attention to your connectors when plugging them in. I almost destroyed the controller tongiht. I was so tired when I finally got home a couple of hours ago (almost midnight) that when I finally got done with feeding/caring for dogs and feeding myself, that I forgot to even plug in th ebike to charge it. So in the middle of typing this post I remembered that, and got up to do it.

Then the dogs let me know the charger stopped, so I got up to take it off and hook the controler bakc up (as I just unplug that to hook the charger in so I can use the CA to monitor charge as regen current so power usage should always return to near zero; if it doesn't I know immediately something went wrong with charging.)

However, I'm so wiped out that I kinda just did it by rote...and forgot that I don't have andersons on the controller's power connector yet, just the bullets, which don't have any keying to keep from plugging htem in backwards. Usually, I turn on a light and look. This time, because I'm stupid, I did it by feel just like I do with all my keyed andersons...and BLAM ZAP KAPOW there was lightning in the almost completely dark room lit only by the CA's reflected light off the walls) as it vaporized a little bit of connector tips:

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Thankfully, the cotnrolelr is tougher than I expected, and it still seems to work fine, although I didn't actually test ride the bike it does spin up the wheel as expected. I had the "ignition" key off, so therew as no power to the lowvotlage section or MCU, etc., just the FEts and main caps and stuff. Hopefully those are ok and not damaged wating to fail. Guess I'll find out eventually.


So...now for the rest of the day bfore that:

The grocery/dogfood run was successful; I didn't write down the stats, but I didn't have to pedal this trip, despite the 114lbs of dogfood, 30-ish of trailer, and the rest of the groceries (10-ish pounds).

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Only one REALLY stupid person on this trip; most people were at least reasonable drivers, if very impatient with each other (and sometimes me). Big white car, dunno what kind. I was approachihg the red light at Cheryl, southbound on the two-lane-each-way Metro Pkwy West, when the car a ways behind me in my lane *accelerated* (approaching a red light, mind you) and swerved around me mostly into the LEFT lane, and then swerved back around me to make a RIGHT turn onto Cheryl, without slowing or stopping for hte red light, just as I stopped behind the crosswalk lines.

At least they did swerve around me, and there wasnt' anybody in his path on the street he turned onto. Lots of other people ROARing past, even though they didnt' even have to go around me, as they were already in the other lane, and never went into my lane at all even after passing me. Several people runnng red lights, some like the other idiot above and not even stopping for htem at all, some stopping or at least slowing before they went thru (usually straight thru, a couple turning left or right). Dunno what the deal is, but it was a lot worse than usual.


After a much less eventful rest of the ride home, and I got all the food inside and put away, let teh dogs out to do their thing, I went back out to a friends house to work on a test method of putting the Nishk-E's bags onto the frame securely; more info in that thread, but pic here of the frame with the bags on it. I forgot to take a pic of the bike on the trailer, but it was done the same way as the bike in the previous post.

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One of his cats certainly liked it, mistaking it for a hammock.

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[amberwolf]

So far no problems with the controller despite the momentary accidental polarity reversal.

Today was the bike's first real dunking; it was pouring rain pretty hard on the ride home, starting with a hard sprinkle when I left work tonight and quickly turning into a "can't see to ride" torrent, where all I coudl see was lights of signage and other cars, for about a mile and a half, then it went back to the drizzle.

No problems with it so far; we'll see if it is still ok in the morning; I gotta be at work way early tomorrow.

Well, actually there is *one* problem I have to diagnose after a nap (cuz I'm too tired to competently work on a battery right now): The ammo can pack only charged up 5o 57.4V (instead of 58.3V) before the charger stopped with a green light. I don't know why it would stop, unless the charger doens't just detect end of charge by voltage, but also by current, and something caused the pack to stop drawing current at that point.

We'll see in a while; for now the pack is disconnected from charger and bike.

[amberwolf]

I have found that it's pretty consistent--pack stops charging at the same voltage each time, and if i unplug hte charger from AC and pack till it's light goes out, then plug back in, it charges another 200mAh or so, then stops again. Repeat for another 200mAh or so, and it's basically fully charged at that point.

I have watched the packs via balance leds on a batterymedic during charging, and it looks normal to me, nothing out of balance with the others within a couple of hundredths of a volt. I don't see a pack problem, so I'm guessing it's a charger issue. I'll have to see how the charger works on the pack on CB2, see if the same thing happens there.


In other news, the bike itself hasn't had any rain-based problems, though the CA's buttons stopped working again--it's probably the connector vibrated loose again. I ought to tape it down or stick some foam in there to keep it still.


I used the bike and trailer setup to haul a kennel/crate from our rescue partner at work; it has a broken door that needs more wire welded onto it. Probably spend a bit of time Thursday fixing it and hauiling it back up there; that's my next day off. I'm finding one issue with the trailer is that the "frame" of it isn't stiff enough side-to-side, and I should add some sort of removable triangulation brace (so I can still fold it up).

[amberwolf]

I have misplaced the camera, so no pic yet, but the rain on the ride home the other day seems to have damaged the CA buttons themselves; corroding some of teh traces in the silver/plastic button assembly on the front. I will probably go the route I have seen one other person go, and replace them with clicky buttons, though mine will likely be from a VCR I recently disassembled for salvage of various parts. I might be able to silicone them under the original button cover to waterproof them, at least sufficiently for the very infrequent rains we have here.

Rest of the bike hasnt had any problems from it, including even the Fusin display unit (or at least, no worse problems than it had before).

[amberwolf]

Foudn the camera, so here's a pic of the CA buttons.

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Will document the fix here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19540

[amberwolf]

Fusin has sent their new controller design, a 9FET; it's still on the way. Could arrive anytime now. Also sent me some spare spokes (hopefully spare nipples, too, since those are what has actually failed; we'll see when it gets here).

As I understand it, the reason for sending the new controller is that it does not use the Fusin analyst display at all (although it may be capable of doing so--if it is, I will hook it up after I have thoroughly tested the controller itself, to see if the communication problems are in the display or the controller).

Wish I coudl've convinced them to send me the tool to open the wheel motor up, but I guess they only want to sell that to their dealers when motors actually need service. Can't blame them I guess, but it won't stop me from opening it, just delay me as I make my own tool (eventually).

I have not been riding this bike the last week or so, but have been using CrazyBike2 since fixing it's frame (broken in a crash/skid). I'll be riding this one again once the new stuff arrives and is installed.

I have to go back over the data but I think I have nearly 250 miles on this one now--halfway thru what I'd consider a fair amount for a review. So far the actual motor and controller, the key parts of the kit, have been great, just like the older Fusin stuff I've used.

I'd definitely recommend them.

[amberwolf]

Fusin's new 9FET arrived today just before I had to leave for work, so I have only had time to open the box (at lunch) and take pics (just now, before I go feed the dogs and myself).

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The new one appears the same size (by my *completely infallible* memory ) as the old one,

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with the same type and array of connectors, which Fusin said are keyed and colored the same as the old one.

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It also should work with the Fusin analyst display, so I will use this as a chance to test if the old controller or the display was causing the communications issues between them that caused the "lockups" and whatnot.

It's specs are not any different than the original one other than the much higher LVC (40V vs 34V, so this one cannot be used with a common 36V pack),

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so I'm not really sure why they would go to 9FETs over 6FETs, but I'm all up for higher reliability and extra overhead for loaded-current-handling, which the paired-leg FETs in the 9FET ought to provide.

Pics of the insides later, after it's been tested.


The 4 spokes/nipples on top are the 220mm needed for the disc side, and the slightly shorter 4 on the bottom are for the chain/sprocket side. It's a comfort to have them, as I am sure I will eventually break some once I get to really abuse testing it after the primary review.

[amberwolf]

Hooked it up in place of the old one, one connector at a time so I couldn't mix them up.

Turned on fine, and runs the motor wheel off-ground fine.

Fusin analyst display hooks up and works; I temporarily undid the mod that bypasses it's ability to turn off the controller, so I could see how it behaves on this one.

Just before I started swapping controllers, a storm began brewing, and got to lightning and high gusty winds (but only light sprinkles), and stayed that way for all the time I had for testing this tonight, so there's no on-road testing yet. Grateful for the storm, as it brought outisde temperatures down to 85F, the same as it is in my AC-cooled room, although it's very humid out there. Hopefully stays like this all night so it cools off the house and ground and streets outside, to make it a bit cooler thru tomorrow. But it wasn't safe to go riding out in the winds, so I wil ahve to do that later.


Anyhow, there is indeed a difference with the Fusin analyst display on this one vs the old one: This new controller is not sending the speed data It *does* tell the display when the overspeed has occured (like if I run the wheel at WOT off-ground), because the display blanks the speed, and flashes its' usual error 24 (I think, had a little involuntary nap since then so can't recall exactly). However, it does not turn off the controller--the wheel still keeps going at whatever speed that is WOT off-ground. Can't tell ya since it's not displaying any speed, just 0 MPH.

I have not yet tried KPH instead, nor have I tried differnet wheel diameters, nor have I tried lowering the speed limit from the max. These shoudl not change anything in whether or not the display will do it's other functions, but I need to try them for completeness.


At a first guess, something is different in how this controller is programmed to send data out to the display.

The speed sensor in the motor is obviously working, and the controller is obviously responding to it as it knows when it has gone too fast and tells the display that this limit has been reached, but it is not telling the display what speed it is going, either before or after the overspeed.

It *does* tell it what the present watt usage is, and that appears to be working normally.

I re-connected the old controller and verified that the display does indeed still do what it is supposed to with that one--it does display the speed and it does cut off the controller when overspeed occurs, and it does blank the speed display (which I find very annying) and until I let off the throttle and it goes to coast mode and redisplays the speed, still with the error code instead of a wattage.

I re-connected the new controller, and again it does not display the speed or respond to an overspeed by shutting off power to the controller.

I forgot to do one more test: try the throttle without turning on the display first, which will tell me if the controller is even wired inside to let the display unit cut it's power off, as that is the only thing I can think of that would disable the ability of the display to do this--if the wire is already bypassed inside the controller, like I did temporarily externally on the display cable itself (and returned to original for testing the new controller).


I'll have to roadtest this to see whether the analyst works correctly (other than the above) with this controller, or if the same issues as before start cropping up randomly as previosuly happened iwth the old controller.

I also should check (at least with a meter) whether or not the controller's "ignition" power comes thru the display connector or if it is tapped directly from the keyswitch input. If the former, it will let me more fully test the display's interaction with this new controlller. If the latter, I'd have to move the wire to match the old one, to fully test the display with this controller.

[amberwolf]

I verified on a test ride that the speedo does not display any speed from the new controller. The old one does.

It does blank the speedo and flash the display when overspeed is reached, as expected.

It does not change the overspeed limit, when altered in setup, to any of the available speeds in the range. The old one does.

It does not disable the controller when overspeed is reached. The old one does. The new one simply keeps going faster and faster if you keep holding the throttle WOT; I dunno what the max speed is as I let go of the throttle once I was way faster than comfortable with on this bike, probably 26-27MPH? Dunno for sure.

It does disable the controller when the analyst is not powered up--utnil you hold the Mode button just like before, the controller does not respond to throttle.

It does change the PAS level; each of the 10 levels works as expected for PAS, except I forgot to test level 0 (which turns off the controller, basically). Level 1 is just a little assist, level 2 is more, etc., thru 9 which is full power PAS, whcih is like pedalling along and then suddenly a second or two later your throttle suddenly goes WOT without you doing it. Very disconcerting--the PAS needs to not have any delay, especially since it has the same delay in STOPPING the assist after you cease pedalling, whcih could cause a crash for inexperienced riders. But this is no different than the original controller, so it is working as expected, if not as desired.

It does display the wattage correctly, just like the old one, so I know for sure between that and the overspeed flashing that the new controller does indeed talk to the analyst correctly, it's just not sending some data (like speedo) or is sending it in a way the analyst doesnt' understand.


So something is different about this controller's programming or wiring or design, so that it does not properly work with the Fusin analyst display unit; I'll have to open it up later to find out if it is a wiring issue.


Oh, another tidbit: the odo data is kept in the analyst display, probably in flash. Dunno how to reset it, or if it can be. It was still the same reading that it had been when I last used it on the old controller (a while back).

[amberwolf]

Longer test of the new controller today; whcih worked just fine, as did the motor. I definitely like this setup, other than the display.


Display unit actually displayed a speed reading several times during the 8-mile ride, but it didnt' correspond to my actual speed at any of thsoe times. As little as 2MPH while going at least 15, as much as 40MPH while going only 17-18.

It also cut off power to the controller each time this happened, even if the displayed speed was very low. I verified the cutoff speed is still set to the max KPH it allows; once this had happened half a dozen times or so I stopped and redid the mod to the wire harness that lets power bypass the display's control line and go right to the controller's "keysiwtch" input; I was in traffic and this was becoming a serious safety problem, especially the two times it would not cut power back in until I power cycled the system.

It did not have these problems again after redoing that mod.


First four miles was to the light rail, then rode the light rail to almsot end of line, got off and rode to a friend's house another four or so miles. Total of only about 5Ah used, of the 8 or so safely usable in the ammocan pack.

Brought charger with me in case I had to recharge and ride back, but he took me home in his truck with teh bike in the bed. Good thing, since the charger connector malfunctioned; I didnt' crimp it properly and it pulled out--I was able to fix it and start the recharge process anyway, but it teaches me another lesson, to not bet my ride back on being able to recharge at the destination.


On the light rail I had two conversations about ebikes. First was with a student learning electrical stuff; corrected a few misconceptions about ebikes and ebike law and such, but he was fairly interested in the bike.

Second was an older gentleman that suggested I put an alternator on there to recharge it while I was riding. I attempted a few times to explain simply that it's physically impossible to get back enough energy from this to even break even, and get the same range you would have without it, and that in reality you would end up with a *shorter* range by doing this, due to inefficiencies causing losses in each stage of power conversion. I don't think I got thru to him on that. It's really hard to dissuade people from such impossible ideas! I suggested he come over to the forums here to read thru the discussions (including number crunching) that people have had about this subject. I dont' think he will visit; he didn't seem interested enough.

Eventually I mentioned that people have used pedal-generators to recharge the battery, but that even then it's more efficent ot run thru the chain directly. Then that people ahve put gas-powered generators on there for longer range than just the batteries, but it still takes fuel. We ended up joking about having Star Trek antimatter reactors on them or the Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future, as the only good compact solution that *might* someday be possible to power things without big heavy batteries.


On my second half of the ride after the light rail, going down Dobson, at one of the side streets there was a bike leaning on a pole and a few feet away a group of paramedics and police officers standing around a sheet-covered body on a gurney. There were no other people around, so I suspect the body was the cyclist. The bike appeared undamaged, so I don't know what actually happened.


Most poeple were actually fairly nice on the roads, considering their speed limits were 45MPH and the best I'm allowed to do is 20; most of the impatient people changed lanes and passed, rather than lane-splitting or roaring past me, on those stretches with no bike lane or with one only inches wide that could never really be called a bike lane (but is apparently intended to be).

OTOH, there were places where the bike lane suddenly and without announcement simply had it's left line go diagonally into the curb, ending it. Those were fun. Always in places you couldn't clearly see that this was coming, too, until you were within a few car lengths of it--hard to plan where to go like that. Not really anythign taht stupidly done up in Phoenix, and this is Tempe which is supposed to be bike friendly!


All in all was an interesting ride, but if I could I'd rather ride the whole distance on the bike rather than do the light rail. Air conditioning or not, it's not fun to sit there and be jerked back and forth at each start or stop, listening to the babble of people angry about this or that, or hearing them spout off about something they know nothing about as if they did, or having phone conversations that ought to be private out in public. Definitely would be better to ride in the heat. I just have to put airless "solid" tubes in the tires on CrazyBIke2, so not to have to worry about flats, and then carry enough battery for the whole trip there and back (in case I can't recharge for some reason).

[amberwolf]

Been riding this one around off and on for another 108 miles since the above, plus the 253 I had on it after the above trip (based on notes I ran across plus this thread), for a total now of 361 miles.

The new controller is working fine; I still need to open it up and get some pics.

I also still need to open the motor up and do that, too. Today I actually started to work on digging out the materials to make the tool, but was beign attacked by hundreds of tiny mosquitoes and had to give up and retreat to my A/C'd bedroom where they cant' get to me. The repellents I have (Bullfrog sunblock/repellent, aloe vera, etc) only worked a little bit; there were so many that they would fly in my nose and ears and eyes, when they coudlnt' get to my skin. Even the dogs didnt' want to be out there with them.

I dunno where the bugs came from; I made sure there arent' any buckets or containers of any kind that could be hodling stagnant water for them to breed in. Must be from somewhere else in the neighborhood. A few years ago the city was regularly spraying for them, but they seem to have discontinued doing that probably for cost reasons. they dont' even talk about it anymore, or try to get people to make sure they dont' leave breeding grounds for mosquitoes, but they used to have PSAs about that as well as mailers and flyers and such.



No more nipples have broken, and no spokes ahve failed, so hopefully those spare ones Fusin sent (4 for each side) will not see use soon.

I did find tonight when doing a routine check that the rightside axle nut was loose, but the leftside is still very tight. I don't know if it worked loose or if I simply didnt' tighten it properly last time I worked on the wheel, in one of the previous posts above.


Getting closer to the 500 mile mark, and still the only thing that's been a known problem is that "analyst" display. Doesnt' matter since they said they arent' including that in the kit anymroe anyway.

[amberwolf]

I am now at 484 miles on this motor, and still going fine, using the second controller sent for testing (the 9FET). The 6FET still works fine, but it got good testing for the first half of the review, so the newer one stays on there for the second half.


Another 16 miles will put me at the 500 miles I promised to do before doing anything evil to the kit, and so after that point I will test it on CrazyBike2, just to see how well it can work.

Hopefully I'll get the tool made to take the cover off, and show the guts of this thing, before abusing it on the big cargo bike. (I wish I could get Fusin to sell me the tool, but they won't).

[amberwolf]

Have now managed 511 miles without motor or controller issue.

[amberwolf]

This motor/wheel/etc has now been moved onto a trike:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 0&start=50
and works as well there as on the bike, so far (only a few miles, as the trike itself needs redesign for unrelated rideability issues).

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Nice build!

Where can I buy this nice motor, I have none info about this motor.

Thank you.

[amberwolf]

Contact Fusin Motors
http://www.fusinmotors.com/
or PM Louispower
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9957


So far it's gone another 401 miles without motor problems, though yesterday (or sometime recently) I managed to spin the axle 90 degrees in the torque washers, gouging a line in the axle:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22720&p=721954#p721954

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Thank you

[amberwolf]

Crossposted from Fusin's original thread about the motor:

It's been performing well for another 652 miles+, on top of the 511 previous to moving it to Delta Tripper. So nearly 1200 miles on it without breaking it (yet).

Only problem is the frame wasn't good enough to hold against the torque washers, unlike the bike frame, which was fine with it. It ripped out the inner dropout (left side of motor) and carved the flats of the axle on the other side where the torque washer was (which didn't move in the dropouts, but hte axle i s alot softer than the torque washers---that is a big failing; the axle should always be harder than whatever holds it, so that it doens't have to be replaced when such a failure occurs, only the holding item does).


There is another issue, but since Fusin won't sell me the tool to open the motor, and there's no dealer here who *could* get the tool and do it, I can't tell what's causing it for sure.

There is a new noise in the mtoro the last 3 weeks or so, which sounds like it's coming apart and tearing itself up--but it does nto happen all the time, and it is just a very disturbing noise for now. At first I thought it was something rattling in the rim, but now AFAICT it's soimething in the freehub/cassette mechanism; perhaps a pawl or bearing has come loose in it and is rattling around in that part of the mtoor.

I do not presently have it on a bike that I can check to see if this mechanism still works as it should; I don't even have a cassette on it, to save a bit of weight on the trike since it's a right wheel where no chain could reach that side anyway.

Whatever it is, it apparently cant' get into the rest of the motor, or it would have already gotten into the planetaries or the rotor/stator interface and really damaged something. But if it is indeed part of the freehub mechanism, it is strange that it would fail when it has almost never even been used for pedalling, and only a few hundred miles on it in freewheeling mode.


Anyway, until I can get the motor apart (have to make a tool for it I guess) then we won't know the actual noise source.

[amberwolf]

Crosspostedf rom the Delta Tripper thread, regarding the Fusin wheel:

How many SPERM (spokes per mile) does this thing get?

Actually, I have yet to break a spoke or wheel on this thing. [ed: regarding the Delta Tripper as a whole, not the Fusin wheel] Mostly I think it's because it's not yet constructed in a way that allows a load as heavy as I have put on CrazyBike2, and because it has two rear wheels to distribute what loads I have put on it.

There *is* more impact strain on the wheels because the frame doesnt' flex like CB2s' (being much shorter than CB2), and there is way wya more sideloading on the wheels, so I am surprised that nothing's broken yet.

I *have* broken off the *entire* wheel and part of the frame, but that wasnt' loading, but instead motor torque at the axle combined with insufficient nut tightness and too thin a dropout/frame, and only torque washers rather than arms. The fix of more than tripling (probably quadrupling) the original frame thickess where it ripped the axle thru the dropout has so far worked fine, along with wrenches for torque arms. It's survived 377 miles since then without issue (but it was about 461 miles to break off in the first place...).


Total mileage now is 838 miles, and after my work commute today will be 843 on the trike, and about 1350 miles on the Fusin motor wheel itself, which hasn't broken any more spokes since tensioning them all as properly as I could (which they weren't from the factory).


I think I mentioned the almost-small-orange-sized rock I hit with the Fusin wheel, which didn't apparently damage anything, though I expected the wheel to come apart from it.