Busettii Vortex ebike

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Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:32 am

I wonder if somebody here has a Busettii ebike so I can learn how well it performs compared to mine. Mine is a Vortex with a 36V battery. It performs well on flat road and small incline. However for bigger hills around my home it went up very slowly. It seems that the bike was also trying to gear shift to a lower gear by itself. Every time that it did it, there was a loud clicking noise that is a bit embarassing if there are other people around. I noticed that the rear wheel has a Shimano Nexus 3-speed gear hub. Since I never have a 3-speed gear bike before, I don't know if the noise and auto gear change is a normal thing or not? I don't know if by replacing the rear wheel gear hub the noise will go away?

Previous to the Busettii Vortex, I had also built a 500W ebike from a rear wheel kit sold on eBay. Comparing the Busettii to the DIY ebike, I must say that the DIY bike is a lot easier to use. It makes it especially easy for the wife. It only has one throttle to push and no fancy computer with different power levels. It also went up the hill a lot faster. For the DIY I have a 48V battery. I don't know if this is the reason for the extra power that I felt or not?

Pictures of my Busettii bike: Image

Image

Picture of the Shimano 3-speed hub on the Busettii: Image

Picture of my DIY 500W bike: Image

I am very much interested in getting rid of the gear changing noise on the Busettii. If you have any idea please let me know.

Thank you.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby Ypedal » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:35 am

lmao.. 60 mile.. and they PRINT IT ON THE FRAME !!!... :lol: ....

how far to you " really " get on a charge?

regarding the noise, does it auto-shift? or do you have a 3 speed lever on the handlebars?

.. yes.. 48v will certinaly be more powerfull, Volts x Amps = Watts ... that " 500w " kit is likely pulling 1000w under load.. vs the busetti being hard limitted to 500w or less..
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby neptronix » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:43 am

I'm glad you already discovered that DIY is better in a very short period of time ;)

If you want to know what your power consumption is, you need a watt/amp/volt meter.

https://www.google.com/search?sugexp=chrome,mod=5&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=gt+power+meter#q=gt+power+meter&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=shop&ei=CATWT8w9hOzYBeKEzZoP&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=6&ved=0CHAQ_AUoBQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=957a84ff551f46da&biw=1270&bih=701

My guess is that with a 48v battery, you've got double or triple the power of the busettii bike on your DD hub setup.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby 1000w » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:03 am

luvxu wrote:It seems that the bike was also trying to gear shift to a lower gear by itself. Every time that it did it, there was a loud clicking noise that is a bit embarassing if there are other people around. I noticed that the rear wheel has a Shimano Nexus 3-speed gear hub. Since I never have a 3-speed gear bike before, I don't know if the noise and auto gear change is a normal thing or not? I don't know if by replacing the rear wheel gear hub the noise will go away?

This is probably the hub skipping between two gears because the adjustment between the handle bar shifter and the hub itself is not right. The shifter cable will have a screw adjustment at one or both ends.
Have a play with the adjusters so that you can clearly feel the three different gears when you move the shifter into the three different positions.
Good luck.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:05 am

There is a lever for gear shift on the right handle. I can gear shift using this lever. I am not so sure about this automatic gear shift or that there is something wrong with the gear that caused it to slip and making all this noise. This is why I like to hear from others who might have similar bikes.

I am very impressed with the DIY bike indeed. It took a bit of time at the beginning to gather all the necessary tools for the job but once I got all that, it was very easy. I was able to get it done in an afternoon. I ride my daughter everyday and the hills and head winds used to be a problem. Now with the new bike I have no more problem and we can go out more often.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Hi guys,

Thank you for all your help.

neptronix: I understand your reason that 48V battery might have more power than a 36V. Since I have a few spare 48V batteries, do you think I can use it on the Busettii to get that extra boost of power? Or I am going to burn the bike's motor? I wish there are more information on the Busettii website (busettii.com) about their bikes, replacement parts and manuals but there isn't seem to be very much yet.

1000w: I have tried to google for information about shimano 3 speed SG-3S40 adjustment but I have not found any. I tried to adjust the push rod screw (blindly) hoping that it would get better but I didn't see any effect yet. I might try again a few more times to see if I can get lucky somehow. I found a website talking about this type of gear hub but it is all in Chinese (http://www.flickr.com/photos/number5/519969881/). It doesn't look like that this type of part is popular here in the US. I watched a few youtube tutorial on 3speed gear hub adjustment but they don't seems to apply to mine. I am hoping very much that I don't have to replace the hub as it could cost a bit of time and money.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby Ypedal » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:54 pm

have you tried to email them and ask for more info ? ( doubt they can tell their ass form their kneecaps.. but you might get lucky :lol: )
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby Ykick » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:42 pm

All you can do with those internal 3 speed hubs is to adjust the cable throw so it doesn't go over/under. My Panasonic bike had a mark on the pushrod end to adjust with selector in one extreme or the other? Hell, I can't even remember its been so long...

But, they can slip and if it's under high torque loads there may not be anything you can do about it short of replacing with some other gear setup? The motor driving through the bottom bracket doesn't help things if it's not fully locking into desired gear.

You should get a power meter and begin by gathering connectors and wire to help install something in between battery/controller. You seem to have quite a few battery packs laying around so it's probably a logical next step to get some power measurement happening. It will really help you down the road.

In too many cases, prebuilt stuff simply isn't ready for prime time. As you learned you can do better assembling from components and then you know how to work on it. Until there's competent and affordable eBike service centers in most neighborhoods, you might as well know how to do your own repairs and modifications.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:53 pm

Yes, I did email to the company to ask for help. I got the following feedback from the owner, Allan who is quite helpful. I am reposting it here with the hope that it may be help someone else with the same problem. I have not got a chance to try it yet. I'll report back if it works after I have tried it.

"well the clicking noise can come from 2 things. They could have made your chain too long or too short [I recently replaced the bicycle chain, I am just not sure how would this effect the gear hub?]. If you have the old chain it should be exactly as long and have the same number of links. But if your chain is ok then try applying some very light chain oil over all the moving parts and the chain. The final thing you can do is adjust the chain tension screw located at the middle bottom of the chain gaurd.
You will see a hex head screw there ---- Turn it all the way clock wise until it gets a little tight. then go counter---clockwise back 1.5 full turns or 360 degrees plus another 180 degrees turning back counter clockwise. This is the standard setting ! If it still clicks then change the setting a quarter turn at a time and try the bike until it stops clicking. Usually the 1.5 turns counter clockwise is the perfect setting for a new chain !
Also, oil the chain and all sprockets once a week ! Use a very light chain oil that does get goooey and don't forget about not getting oil on your disc brakes. Thanks, Alan at Busettii "

From their website, I got this description. It said that the bike has 9 speeds total. 3 on the rear hub and 3 auto. So now I am not sure if the noisy slipping sound is from the rear hub or the auto gear in the motor itself. If the motor gear is having problem then I am just not sure how to fix it and the replacement cost for the motor is more than $800. Also I am confused about the claim of 1000W on a 500W motor. May be someone here can figure it out.

from http://busettii.com/vortex-2012-blue-38 ... 23810.html
"Product Description
Now comes in Blue OR Red & 1 or 2 batteries ! Super heavy duty Busettii mountain bike center mounted motor, real transmission (auto 3 speed) chain pedal integrated drive train for smooth pedal assist at very high speeds, Comes with both pedal assist and throttle mode,(also see http://www.biyadii.com) 500 watt motor plus real transmission = 1000 watts of equivalent torque but just using 500 watts(compared to hub motors) Comes with 2 x 38 volt 10ah batteries (= 20 amp hours) with the high efficiency motor and trany can go 86 miles in pedal assis. mode or 60 miles with no Pedaling at all. Unlike most other e-bikes, Vortex Rider can pedal with motor even at 30 mph because of integrated drive pedal train system. Most other E bikes don't have high enough pedal gearing to stay up with motors at high speeds but Vortex solves this problem. Your pedaling always has a big contribution at any speed. Top speed 32 mph. ----Avid Disc brakes front and back ----Great Shock absorbers ----Dual 3 speed internal gears for 9 speeds total. ----Comes with on baord computer panel that shows Battery level, Pedal assist level, kill switch, on/off mode, auto shut down, energy efficiency level and Head light on/off button. Threadless front end by Huer with full angle and height adjustments. Built in cruise control and brake integrated kill switches. ----------Shows the new BLUE model with one battery but you can either color and 1 or 2 battery models. Now using BYI DEEP cycle Lithium batteries made in the USA for much longer range and better power levels. -----Free to choose Tires and frame sizes : 17" fits 5'--7" to 5'--11" and 19" fits 5'--11" to 6'--3" tall riders."
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:40 pm

I followed the instruction from Alan at busettii.com and it made no difference - the noise is still there. I have made a video to show you what I meant by the noise. You can see it here . I think it may have come from the built in 3 speed transmission of the motor but I am not so sure if that is correct or not.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby Ypedal » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:12 am

ouch.. that sounds rough.

i imagine the bike has brake lever cutoff switches making a bench test difficult ( if you can disable the e-brake switch you could use the brakes to load the motor and cause the clicking while standing next to the bike ( a 2 person job) . so isolate if the noise is comming from the rear hub or the pedal/crank area..

almost sounds like the chain was skipping.. ??
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:46 am

It seems to come from the motor and not the rear hub. My latest theory is that one of the motor brush may be too worn. So when the bike is going up hill, the worn brush didn't supply the electricity needed to turn motor in a continuous fashion which may caused the motor to run in choppy mode which gave rise to the noise. This also explain why the bike seems to run a lot weaker than my other bike. Unfortunately I don't have the right tool to take the motor off to take a look inside. Hopefully I can take it to some small engine repair shop so that they can take a look at it for me.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby Ypedal » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:52 am

i highly doubt it has anything to do with the motor brushes ( if it's actually a brushed motor in there ) .. this is a mechanical issue with the gearing imo.

when under heavy load, something is flexing and causing a skip,
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby dogman » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:43 pm

Definitely not a rough running motor.

But something is jumping a link, could be chain, but likely you'd see that. Broken gear in the motor? I don't know if there is any gears in there, where the motor connects to the chain.

Hopefully, we'll get more busetti owners on the forum in time, and have better expertise to offer.
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Re: Busettii Vortex ebike

Postby luvxu » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:59 pm

A miracle had happened! I took my bike to the small engine repair shop and the mechanic there said he only work on gas engines, not anything electrical. But he was kind enough to help loosen the three screws that hold the motor to the frame. So I took the bike home and started to take out the motor and open it up for examination. The motor looked perfect. I can't tell if anything wrong with it at all. And it is a brushless motor as well. Feeling that I am beat, I greased the gears and reassembled the motor to put it back onto the bike. I then took the bike out for a test ride and the noise is GONE. I couldn't believe it. The embarassing noise, which had haunted me for so long, had disappeared. I took the bike out for longer and longer rides to see if it would come back but it didn't. Man I cannot be happier. Whatever happened I have not a clue!

I took some pictures of the motor along the way to document the process. Hopefully someone can find them useful.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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