Picycle review and experience

[tony desnick]

Last week I started a blog cataloging my experience with Pi Mobility and their Picycle. I noticed that the bike gets a few mentions on this forum for its interesting and innovative design. So I though some might be interested.

The blog can be found here and will be updated every day or couple of day until the the review is complete.
[url]
http://picyclereview.blogspot.com/[/url]

Please get in touch with me if you have specific questions.

[dogman]

Well, that doesn't sound like a great start. Mighty hard to review if you never get it.

[GrayKard]

Not really a blog since you will be talking about stuff that happened a year ago right? Not really a review of the Pi as they only sent you a demo bike. Guessing it's just going to be a rant.

Gary

[miro13car]

Since you finally got Stromer
I speak for others here I think
We will be interested in your review of Stromer
Not very often such high quality bike appears in any reviews so please tell us how you like your Stromer

[Hillhater]

WTF ?
why pretend to start a "Blog", or pretend to "review", a bike that you have not got and know you are not going to get !
What is your objective with this thread ?
If you a "fishing" for support in a possible action against Pi,..just come out and say so.
This way, you just make people question your motives !

[amberwolf]

My guess is he's hoping to get adsense revenue thru the blog, maybe hoping it will make up for the lost money on the bike or something.

I think he should be reposting his stuff here if he wants people here to read it. Perhaps someone should just copy/paste the whole thing here.

[Green Machine]

I visited he pi factory and took a bunch of pictures and interviewed Marcus.

I got to ride the bike.

I posted my impressions here with photos of the factory:

http://www.electricbike.com/picycle/

They had a big impressive facility but I noticed there was only one operating bicycle.

I am suprised they would let that blog stand and not just refund the customer the money....the company obviously had millions of dollars behind it i dont know why PI would let this tarnish their name.

just give the guy his money back if he really didnt get delivery of the bike yet.

By the way i rode a stromer the other day and posted review here: http://www.electricbike.com/stromer/ I did not like it much other than its great purpose built frame.

[tony desnick]

"Not really a blog since you will be talking about stuff that happened a year ago right?"
Really? Will someone please tell me what a blog is? I always thought it was web log describing opinions, experiences, facts or anything else under the sun. If I've offended some of you by publishing my opinions together with some facts about my experiences, I apologize.

I did review the Pi to some extent. The blog title didn't say comprehensive review. Green Machine does great reviews. I don't pretend to keep up with him.

Am I looking for adrevenue? NO! I'm hoping that enough people will read this to be wary of ordering a Pi and paying the full amount up front. I still like the design of the bike. I'm frustrated about their inability to manufacture them on time.....or maybe at all.

And lastly, no I'm not fishing for support for litigation. I said pretty clearly in the blog that I'm unwilling to send good money (travel to SFO) after bad and that a judgement would be meaningless if Pi Mobility couldn't pay it. Another Pi customer in a similar position asked me if I wanted to join him in litigation. I said no.

Some of you seemed very concerned about all of this. I hope I have put your concerns to rest.

[Hillhater]

a Blog is generally considered to be a web log,..a diary with regular entries of events etc to record in chronological order an ongoing situation as it happens .
A Review generally assumes the author has "hands on " experience of the product .
Your effort is more of a retrospective collection of events that happened some months ago.

I guess some of us feel the title is miss leading , and were expecting an owners technical review of the Pi.

[tony desnick]

If there is any interest, I added a post today.

[HAROX]

Tony thanks for giving your opinions on this unusual machine.

[Green Machine]

It certainly sounds like they are close to filing bankrupt.

Sorry to hear this.

How much are you out for? You said in your posts you got the yellow bike. Is that the $9000 kenny roberts bike?

[tony desnick]

I'm out $2,495, the original cost of the lower end bike. The reference to the "yellow bike" was that I had ordered it to be painted a special yellow color to match a rare 1995 Volvo.

I fear you may be correct - that they are close to bankruptcy.

[Lemlux]

The web site previously announced that no new orders would be accepted until all backlog was shipped. Shipment completion was expected on or about October 15. That announcement is gone today but the pricing page for all 2012 models says "coming soon."

I wonder if the 2011 orders have been shipped.

[pdf]

Cue the music:
"Bmmmm, bmmmm, bmmm.... Another one bites the dust"
I know it was nearly universally loathed here, but I liked the Pi for its unique design. I like out-of-the-box thinkers. It's harder to do than most people realize. I never rode a Pi and it could have been a dog.
Anyway, looks like it has gone the way of the dinosaur. The road to the future is littered with the carcasses of failed companies. I'm still of the opinion that this is a golden age for the ebike. For people who want to push the envelop (at least in the US), they gain so little attention you can get away with just about anything. I have a $600 battery strapped to my bike with a bungee cord. 30 sec with a utility knife and someone could sell that puppy for several meth hits (I think. I don't actually know what meth costs, but I do watch Breaking Bad religiously.) I can "pedal" my bike at 30 mph past a parking lot full of cops nomming on doughnuts and smile and wave with not so much as a raised eyebrow.

As we say in the research business, "The leading edge is the bleeding edge". Cool design though.

[gcholman]

This week they added the black bike to their "deliveries" and a Mr. Rice to the team page. Maybe they still have a pulse... I agree with PDF. While never riding the bike, like the aesthetics and the notion of a local/green transportation company. Still holding out hope for a nice slice of Pi!

[Lemlux]

Today the website is not available per the hosting company.

As this has happened on multiple occasions over the past year I'm not sure how much to read into this. In the past, major changes appeared when the site came back up.

[Lemlux]

Pi's Website is back up today.

I see a new announcement that Pi will be part of a telecast on Discovery Channel todeay, Nov 2, 2012.

[gcholman]

Sorry, having trouble embedding link. This was the preview for the Discovery show "Tech Toys 360." The show was delayed due to a hurricane Sandy fundraiser.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn7yW5IT ... ata_player

[neptronix]

Why is it that these prebuilt bikes always come with a slice of flakiness/ripoffyness/drama from the company selling them?

Another fine argument for building your own i suppose.

[gcholman]

Here is a strange posting on SF Craigslist:


This ad is offering 5 extremely rare PiCycle electric bicycle hand-made frames used in the as yet unreleased sci-fi film "Ender's Game" starring Harrison Ford.

There are 5 in total ~ batteries are NOT included and the assembled bike image is for representational purposes only ~

Batteries are supposed to go inside frame tube or can be mounted under the tube for easy access.

Search on youtube for picycle and lots of cool videos.

According to the inventor and owner of picycle they spent $15,000 on each one of these prototypes.

These frames are "electric ready"all you have to do is add parts, motor (s) and ride!

The picycle frame has the shape of the math symbol pi = 3.14. I've shown this bike at sustainability events and people love it. The coolest aluminum tubular frame ever!

Great advertising tool. Nice way to commute or build your dream bike with the parts of your choice.

$4000 ea






it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests

[amberwolf]

Here is a link to the ad:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bid/3377690463.html

This ad is offering 5 extremely rare PiCycle electric bicycle hand-made frames used in the as yet unreleased sci-fi film "Ender's Game" starring Harrison Ford.
If they can provide a paper trail / provenance for this, they might end up being worth that much to fans of the film, or collectors of such things.

Whether they're worth that much as bike frames depends on the buyer, I guess.

The picycle frame has the shape of the math symbol pi = 3.14.

Uh, really? It doesn't look anything like the symbol for pi, to me.

pi.jpg (19.23 KiB) Viewed 537 times

PiCycle.jpg (31.27 KiB) Viewed 537 times

And this is an image found in the same search but isnt' an actual PiCycle.

Picycle-800x566-2.jpg (29.25 KiB) Viewed 537 times

[tony desnick]

I've posted the prototype bike for sale today.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140894093181?ss ... 1555.l2649

Be happy to answer any questions here.

[Lemlux]

Please further describe the cogging you experience when starting up or when pedaling. For example, my Lyen controller causes my Crystalyte HT3520 to cog when I pedal so I assumed that was normal. Please also discuss the following factoids which seem somewhat inconsistent.

1. Marcus Hayes in 2011 responded to a question of mine that Picycle used a single sensorless motor that can easily take either 36V or 48V. I don't know what current it can handle beyond the 2C limit with 3 second 2.5C cutoff delay that the Allcell BMS provides. As Pi offered batteries of up to 48V and 15Ah I presume that 30A at 48V is not a problem. I question whether Pi has changed the motor since the version used on your bike. It appears that the diameter of your motor is less than the 210mm diameter of the front disc while the motors' diameters shown on both vaporware models on the Pi website seem to be greater than the front rotors concealed behind the hubs.

2. I have a Lyen 130V 18FET 4115 Infineon type Controller with a default current limit of 45A and Regen. What I didn't realize was that the controller required Halls which may possibly be the case with all Infineon based controllers. Is it possible that you are using a sensored Lyen controller with an unsensored Pi OEM hub?

3. What is the width of the flat portion of the hub axle? I suspect that Pi specced a heavy axle with flats in the neighborhood of 12mm and a front axle internal width of 135mm. Please confirm what will fit. Marcus once talked about (but didn't follow through on) marketing "Developers Kits" that would include dropout adapters that would accomodate more typical axle flat sizes. The following is from a 4/22/11 email from Marcus:

"The rear has interchangeable tabs to accommodate axle diameters ranging from 9mm to 12mm. And there’s sufficient surface area to go larger still (14mm) although this would be a permanent alteration. As you’ve surmised the front works differently. There are clamps located on a pivot point that secure the front axle. The clamping method nonetheless can accommodate axles in diameters ranging from 10mm to 12mm without needing permanent alteration. The front and rear axle spacing are identical at 135mm ID.

"I have attached some images for added clarity."

Interchangeable front dropouts.zip

(687.12 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

Did your demo bike come with any of the pictured adapters?

[tony desnick]

There are no dropouts on the bike as it's a protype and pre-dated any of that technology. When I visited the workshop, I saw the newer dropout adapters and thought them pretty cool.

I'm in no way an expert in this field - making it all the harder to rebuild the bike - but I'll attempt to explain.

The cogging took place under only throttled power such that the wheel would "jump" a bit several times and then come to a stop and not move again.

Ed Lyen helped us configure the controller parameters by uploading them into the controller. We tried virtually every combo before arriving at one that offers significantly less cogging in the pedal assist mode. Right now it rides almost ok in that mode.

I rode the bike as delivered - used - for about three months. After that use the wires to the motor frayed where they traversed the front fork and shorted the controller and motor. When I removed Pi's controller it was a mess of wires and changes and taped off bits (prototype remember) and I opted to just replace it. Ed's was the only one I found that could fit into the tube.

I can take the measurement you requested but it will be several days or more since the bike is living at a friends about 20 miles away.