Epik Whistler

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
magic carpet
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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Feb 16, 2013 11:32 am

[quote

I put my battery through two complete cycles almost every day. With the battery warranty for a full two years, I think I am sufficiently protected. The extra cost of the battery is still less than the cost of drinks to replenish my energy under pure muscle power.[/quote]
__________________________________

You might find your battery will last a lot longer if you give it a chance (and the charger) to cool down once in a while. If you're gonna use it to 'replace' your car, buy a second battery and charger. I think you'll find the design NOT to be proprietorial and available through several different manufacturers.

Mike

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Feb 16, 2013 11:45 am

miro13car wrote:it is not about how many you can buy for price of Optibike but
it is all about riding experience in my book.
Opti offers now "economical" version for 6000dollars, does Epik Wistler sell for 1000 dollars??/six of them/.
________________________________

My 'riding experience' on the Epik has been fantastic! It exceeds the legal speedlimit, rides very well, climbs like a 'Matchless', as the Beach Boys used to sing, and looks great! In my humble opinion, the Epik looks a world better than the Optibike, which is unlike any existing bike (other than a 1970 Honda CT 70, yech!).
The Epik is at least as stealthy as any ebike on the market, and without sacrificing capacity!
And the Epik battery detaches easily for security and convenience.
I don't know how Opti stays in business.

Mike
Last edited by magic carpet on Feb 16, 2013 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Feb 16, 2013 12:05 pm

WASYLBRYTAN wrote:Point well taken now that I know what you are talking about. The interesting thing about this battery technology is that it supposedly allows more cycles and more longevity which in turn reduces costs. But at the rate that I put on mileage, the battery may actually outlast the bike. I am averaging 81 kilometres per day x 365= 29,565 x2= 59,130 kilometres or 36,956 miles. I paid a total of $1737.12 after taxes and the dealer told me he would charge me $70. for an overhaul and total lube and tuneup every 10,000 kilometres which would be $470.40 after taxes. Total cost would be $2207.52. Add $224. for 2 new sets of tires and the total cost for two years and 36,000 miles or 59,000 kilometres would be $2431.52. That works out to 6.75 cents per mile or 4.12 cents per kilometre. If the bike and battery last beyond two years the costs will be even less. Almost forgot; 2 charges per day would add $102.20 in electricity costs. This would add .28 cents per mile or .17 cents per kilometre for a grand total of 7.03 cents per mile or 4.29 cents per kilometre. This would involve 1460 battery charges which is doable because this battery is still supposed to retain 80% capacity after 1000 cycles. That is 1000 cycles to complete depletion by the way.
__________________________

I have not been able to verify ANY claims regarding the battery chemistry of the Epik. I found a picture of a Brammo electric race bike that had Leyden power decals on it, but for all I know, they were photoshopped. Brammo makes no mention of using Leyden Power batteries currently, pun not intended.

Even if everything they say is true, I am sure your battery is not going to outlast your bike, as you blithely suggest. Let's keep it real.

Mike

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by miro13car » Feb 16, 2013 2:28 pm

magic carpet,
I would also love to try EpikWistler.
I own BB powered analog Merida which is for sure much less civilized than EWistler.
Since you responded to my posts I wiil tell you what I think.
By "riding experience" I mean noise, smoothness of kick on assist, among other thing.
with high quality riding experience of course come quality of materials no doubt = durability.

I will give you my spectrum of riding experience for non-hub systems.
On high end would be somthing like BOSH bottom bracket drive known for incredible , not noticable assist kick in.
On other low end of spectrum /again non-hub system/ would be be horrble Currie Izip.
You see all is about comparing, comparing.
I have to be careful here reading this.
there are riders out there enjoyng Ezip riding experience!!
give me some comparison , did you ride other non-hub drive ebikes?
Last edited by miro13car on Apr 23, 2013 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Feb 16, 2013 3:11 pm

Miro,
I am the OP on this thread (original poster).

Did you not read my EXTENSIVE comparison at the beginning of this thread? I have already answered your questions. I own a BionX bike which is a good standard of comparison.
Last edited by magic carpet on Mar 23, 2013 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by miro13car » Feb 16, 2013 7:23 pm

oh that's right , me bad , you own and ride Bionx.
so you compare Whistler to rather high standard of Bionx.
Shortly if you enjoy riding experience of Whistler after riding Bionx , so Whistler is not bad at all.
Shame if EpikWhistler were just China brand rebaged for NAmerican market.
If we could see really close up pictures of welds, rims, details of assembly
do not count me as "potential new ebike buyer" , I like quality stuff in terms of design and manufacture and will NOT lower my quality standards for lower price.
Thats why I asked about those close up pictures to examine more closely.
Especially close close pictures of drive.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Feb 21, 2013 1:50 pm

magic carpet wrote:
Even if everything they say is true, I am sure your battery is not going to outlast your bike, as you blithely suggest. Let's keep it real.

Mike
Several days ago, after 29 days of ownership and 2600km, my engine failed and was no longer supplying power to the wheel. I took it to the shop and they will install a new motor with a throttle on it. It seems I have worn out the bike since they tell me the chain and freewheel are worn out and are wear and tear not covered under warranty. The cost will be 85 dollars plus tax. The shop owner told me this bike was not designed to put on the kind of mileage that I do. So it seems I have worn out the bike in 29 days. Electric bikes cannot replace cars afterall. That kind of makes the entire electric bike industry a fraud, doesn't it? E-bikes make nice bicycle replacements but there is no way they can replace cars. I am thinking of scrapping the bike now that it has turned into a money pit and taking the loss before it gets any worse. By the way, THE BATTERY IS STILL FINE AND HAS LITERALLY OUTLASTED THE BIKE.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Feb 21, 2013 2:57 pm

In all fairness to the bike, I have decided to pay for the new drivetrain since the dealer tells me it is much better quality and will outlast the original. 40 kilometres per hour must put tremendous strain on a drivetrain which was not originally designed for it. I'll just add it to the costs of running and maintaining the bike. I am curious to see just how good this bike can be.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Feb 22, 2013 3:05 pm

The situation is getting funnier and funnier. Yesterday I received a phonecall from the shop saying my bike was fixed. That was phenomenal service; installing a new motor and throttle and drive train in less than two days. I happily paid for it and rode out the door, only to find that the computer no longer displayed speed or distance. It is probably only a simple loose connection, but ironically it is taking more time to fix than the previous major work.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Feb 22, 2013 7:02 pm

Sorry for all these consecutive posts but there are new things happening constantly and I want to keep everyone informed. Just got my bike with a new motor and drivetrain and they feel smoother and more powerful than before. Let's see how long they last. They took out the torque sensor which used to cause the lurch when I rested my foot on the pedals at a stop and replaced it with a speed sensor which I prefer. I now have to pedal nearly 2 revolutions before power assist kicks in but it is a very smooth full power assist not dependent on the degree of torque I apply. I prefer it this way because now I do not have to concentrate to apply steady torque at high speed to prevent the assist from cutting in and out. Also, they added a nice thumb throttle on the left hand side of the handlebars. Also, it may be my imagination, but it almost seems as though this motor is slightly more powerful. It makes slightly louder sound but it is more aesthetically pleasing. Also, I can feel noticeable assist from the very first level which I could not feel before. All in all, I am pleased.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Feb 25, 2013 6:09 pm

magic carpet wrote:Miro,


I have just found the Epik Whistler on-line under the name of 'Achiever Pedelec system'. :|

I am even more certain that there has been some serious 'mis-informing' going on here on the part of Epik.

Melody seemed like such a sweet young lady too. I guess 'all's fair' in the Ebike business.

I believe Epik puts their name on Suzhou Chengyou bikes and there is NOTHING Canadian about the design. I have seen them with the Mr. Battery, and Hugo or Fahrraday name painted on them as well as another name on the ChinaBikes site. The Kudos Ibex is probably the same thing too

That's right Epik, I am done believing the story of Melody's father's patent design.


I've been having some issues with my new motor and Melody came to my home to take a long test ride and help me figure it out. I confronted her with the Achiever/Epik question and she informed me that her father owns Achiever as well. Her father is the actual manufacturer.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by amberwolf » Mar 01, 2013 1:27 am

WASYLBRYTAN wrote:Electric bikes cannot replace cars afterall.
Sure they can--as long as they're not either poorly designed or poorly manufactured or both. ;) (the same problem applies to regular cars as well--I've seen some that die within days of driving off the lot new, and others that last forever with only normal regular maintenance).

There are plenty of electric bikes that have gone thousands of miles without problems--lots of them here on ES, some of them pre-built, some of them custom built by members.

My own bikes, once the bugs in my designs are worked out, tend to work just fine, especially considering the huge overloads I put on them hauling stuff. :) It's usually not the electric stuff that fails, either--rather mechanical issues I'd've had with them even if they were all pedal-power. I don't have a car, and don't need one. On rare occasions I get help from friends to mvoe very large/heavy things with pickup trucks, but I don't *have* to--I could build a trailer to do it; it's just so far not necessary, since I typically need their help lifting the things anyway.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Mar 01, 2013 1:31 pm

amberwolf wrote:
WASYLBRYTAN wrote:Electric bikes cannot replace cars afterall.
Sure they can--as long as they're not either poorly designed or poorly manufactured or both. ;) (the same problem applies to regular cars as well--I've seen some that die within days of driving off the lot new, and others that last forever with only normal regular maintenance).

There are plenty of electric bikes that have gone thousands of miles without problems quote]

I go thousands of miles each and every month but bicycle parts cannot take that kind of use without wearing out. My point is that bicycles are not designed to do my kind of mileage and they will wear out. There needs to be designed a totally different type of bicycle which is tough enough and durable enough to withstand the use. Even the most expensive motor scooters such as Vespa will not last more than 30,000 km or so because they are just not built for it. That is why scooters, unless they are cheap chinese imports, are not viable replacements for cars either. On my EPIK WHISTLER, the electric components are not the problem; the bicycle components wear out because they are low end in order to keep the cost of the bicycle down. High end bicycles probably can be made to have as good longevity as a car but then they would cost so much that very few people would buy them. As much as I hate cars and wish they did not exist, I can understand why people are so addicted to them, there do not exist a great many options.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by amberwolf » Mar 01, 2013 6:49 pm

Based on your previous posts, it appears it was a "chain and freewheel" that were worn out. I expect neither of them were very high quality--probably the cheapest ones they could source, as that's very common on these types of bikes.

It does not cost very much to get good quality parts to replace them with--but depending on the design of the drive, and the size of the chainrings used, they may wear faster than they should simply becuase they might not be sized correctly. Larger chainrings would mitigate the wear on them, and proper tension may help wear on the chain itself.

Additionally, if the gears are shiftable, and you are not shifting up and down to the proper gear ratios (or if they did not include the correct ratios for startup/etc), it will put extra strain and wear on the chain and chainrings, as well as the freewheel mechanism itself on the rear wheel.

Also, if there is grit or any other road debris or dust that gets on the chainrings and/or chain, it will wear them much faster, and so it may be better to run a waxed chain rather than oiled (see the various pages on that at the http://sheldonbrown.com website). Or if the chain has no lubrication, it will also wear faster.

With cheapest-level parts, those things will typically spell a quick doom to them, but not necessarily--I've used even crappy parts under heavy abuse way beyond their ratings and not worn them out--destroyed them in accidents or abused them to breaking point, yes.

With better parts, under proper use and maintenance conditions, they can last for thousands of miles. But these are all still parts intended to be replaced after a time, just like various parts in cars such as timing chains and whatnot--while they will still "work" after being worn down, they wont' work quite as well as when they were new, so replacing them at specific intervals is often recommended.

In cars, almost no one actually does this maintenance, until the car ceases to run or run reliably. The same is true with bicycles. The car parts are made larger and heavier to handle the strains of the power they use, and the bicycle parts are usually made lighter for ease of riding under only human power, so unless the proper heavier-duty parts are used for powertrain parts, then if higher power levels are used, or if they are used harder than under typical human power levels, they will wear faster than normal.


Again, the bicycles can do what you want, but you have to use parts intended for the purpose, and design the system to work within the limits of the parts. Unforutnatly the majority of premade ebike companies don't do that, becuase of cost--the same is true for most human-powered bicycle companies, too.

Go buy a $150 bicycle from Walmart and see if it lasts more than a few hundred miles without parts falling off ;) and then keep in mind most of the ebikes companies make these days are of the same quality, both in electric and mechanical components. :(

Go buy a *used* $300 bicycle from a good bike shop and ride it around for a few thousand miles, and see which parts you need to replace--probably not much besides tires and/or tubes and brake pads, whcih are all normal things to wear out.

Even some of the well-used medium-level bicycles I've found at thrift stores for $20 and used heavily over the years have not had any problems other than tires tubes and brake pads, despite the intense mileage.


As to whether these things could prevent them from replacing cars? That all depends on the end-user, really, and their needs and uses and conditions where they are.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Mar 01, 2013 7:54 pm

I tend to agree with your very intelligent and well thought-out responses. All in all, I am very happy with the quality and performance of my EPIK WHISTLER. It just took me by surprise when the engine failed after only 29 days. Upgrading components is worthwhile on this bike because of the excellent support system they have on the electrics. Melody told me to just phone her if I experience more engine problems and she will come to my home right away to install a new one. For those owners who live outside of the Vancouver area it is a good idea to check out their dealer network. EPIK seems to have picked some of the very best bike shops to deal with.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Mar 23, 2013 1:44 pm

Hi Waslybrytan,

I'm glad you're happy on your Epik again and I appreciate you keeping us informed about your experience. Thanks also for investigating the origins of the bike and confirming it to be Melody's Dad's original design. My apologies for suggesting otherwise.

I assume you were never a high mileage cyclist before discovering Ebikes or you would realize that all bikes, electrically assisted in particular, require constant maintenance, if used as you have been doing. You really are a "one-man torture tester"!

If you're going to continue to lead the mileage race and write about it, It would be very helpful, to all interested parties, if you could use correct names for Ebike components.

The Epik Whistler does not have a rear freewheel. Most rear hubmotor bikes use freewheels and they are the weak link in the drive line. The Epik, however uses a proper rear cassette instead. A much stronger and higher quality component. With a casette it's possible to upgrade to a very well made part, but freewheels are not found on quality bicycles, and therefore the selection available to us is limited and the ones I've seen are crude in construction. Structurally, a freewheel is inferior to a cassette because all the load is on one end of the axle, which can cause the axle or bearings to fail.
Properly maintained, your cassette should not give you any further problems.

The same goes for chains. Ever notice all the different contraptions, cleaners and lubes sold in bike shops for chain maintenance? There's a reason cars switched from chain drive to shaft drive. A chain is more efficient, pound for pound, that's why racing motorcycles still use them, but they require constant attention. Don't blame your Epik for it's chain failure unless you've been staying on top of the maintenance requirements. Buy the best chain you can afford and look after it.

One other component Ebikes don't have is an engine. They have a motor. It would be easier to follow your posts if you could try and use the correct terminology.

You contradicted my statement that your "bike will outlast your battery", but then you got her going again, so I believe my prediction is still true, is it not?

Your intensive, "test to fail" riding experience seems to have revealed another advantage of the Epik, that being that the owners daughter,who is not a mechanic, is able to replace the motor quickly and easily without even a shop visit. That couldn't be done with a hubmotor, since the spokes would need to be unlaced, reinstalled and the wheel trued before it could be re-installed. I already knew Epik had the advantage when fixing a flat or changing tires, but motor replacement is also simplified with this bottom bracket drive design.

Looking forward to hearing of your next adventure!

Be careful out there!

:mrgreen:

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Mar 25, 2013 9:43 pm

magic carpet wrote:Hi Waslybrytan,



I assume you were never a high mileage cyclist before discovering Ebikes or you would realize that all bikes, electrically assisted in particular, require constant maintenance, if used as you have been doing. You really are a "one-man torture tester"!





Looking forward to hearing of your next adventure!

Be careful out there!

:mrgreen:
Thank you for your kind and very informative reply. The information on the cassette was especially helpful. Five years ago I bought a recumbent bicycle for $1100. and I have 8000 kilometres on it without the need for even a simple service. It still shifts like a dream and the brakes work perfectly. It is a rather low end bike with Sram 3.0 components but it has served me very well and I consider it to be my standard by which I judge others. I had hernia surgery 3 weeks ago and so was completely unable to ride for 4 days. It is only in the last 4 days that I have put on more than 100 km. per day. I now have 4200 km. on the bike and it works flawlessly. The nice thing about this bike is being able to set my own assist speed. With the speed set to 20kph at assist level 5, I was able to get 120 km. before the battery was dead. The 20 kph is the manual average speed I always try for on my recumbent when I do over 100k per day so that is the reason for my setting. My IGO URBAN was finally fixed after 3 months but the power and speed cannot compare with my EPIK. Ironically, my EPIK was actually slightly cheaper because I received a showbike discount on it from a dealer. I am looking forward to warmer weather so I can start putting on some serious mileage without freezing myself.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by magic carpet » Mar 29, 2013 1:13 am

WASYLBRYTAN wrote:
:mrgreen:
I am looking forward to warmer weather so I can start putting on some serious mileage without freezing myself.[/quote]
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Me too! :P

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by zuumzuum » Apr 15, 2013 10:55 am

Has anybody ridden one of these in comparison with a Bosch 350w/ 45kmh model?

In general, what would you say the top speed pedaling a decent amount is?

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Apr 15, 2013 8:13 pm

I'm glad you asked, I never get tired of talking about the incredible performance of my EPIK. On level ground with no wind and fairly vigorous pedalling I have no trouble reaching 40 kph or 25mph. With throttle only and no pedalling I usually top out at about 36kph or 22.5 mph. All this at about half the cost of a Bosch; I don't mind 5kph less. At 40kph though, battery drain is tremendous and I only get 26 kilometres on a full charge.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Apr 22, 2013 7:05 pm

For those interested in following my posts, I have another interesting incident to report. Friday evening, as I was pedaling through an intersection, my bottom bracket spindle snapped and my left crank fell off. I managed to get home only 2.5 kilometres away by using the throttle since I was unable to pedal. I took the bike to the shop Saturday morning and received a phone call Monday morning that it was ready to pick up. Another example of INCREDIBLY FAST SERVICE for which EPIK is becoming famous. I now have another brand new motor even though the previous motor still worked fine. Apparently the company thought it would be cheaper and easier to replace the motor rather than spend time and labour on repairing the old one. Anyway, the new motor feels as powerful as ever but is a touch louder than the previous one. However it sounds more like a motor should sound rather than having a rubbing sound like the old one. It seems strange that I am on my third motor in less than four months. I wonder how many motors I will go through by the time the warranty is over. To EPIK's credit though, the motor seems to be improved each time which shows they are constantly trying to make it better. It may be that they are using my bike as a high-use test case in order to work out the bugs. In any case, EPIK appears to be a company with a lot of honesty and integrity and I am a happy customer.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » Apr 24, 2013 11:52 am

I just received an interesting phone call from Melody. She sent her father a picture of my bottom bracket and he asked her to apologize to me for him. He is initiating a recall of all motors with the same bottom bracket and having his design people working on a better one. He also wants me to test the new design when it is ready. I am very impressed with this man's integrity. The owner of Achiever Bikes actually personally apologizes when something goes wrong with one of his products.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by wsw » May 02, 2013 4:05 pm

Hello wasylbrytan.
Just wondering how the Whistler is performing with all the great weather we've been having for the last couple of weeks.
I am picking up a Yukon next week with a Nuvinci 360 hub.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » May 05, 2013 9:39 pm

wsw wrote:Hello wasylbrytan.
Just wondering how the Whistler is performing with all the great weather we've been having for the last couple of weeks.
I am picking up a Yukon next week with a Nuvinci 360 hub.
I just spent the last week in Ontario with very little sleep and have done no riding at all. Now that I am back I look forward to doing justice to your question. Please stand by for a few days.

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Re: Epik Whistler

Post by WASYLBRYTAN » May 07, 2013 2:24 am

wsw wrote:Hello wasylbrytan.
Just wondering how the Whistler is performing with all the great weather we've been having for the last couple of weeks.
I am picking up a Yukon next week with a Nuvinci 360 hub.
Don't you mean the LOGAN? The Logan is the only Epik bike I know of that has the nu vinci hub. I had a chance to preview it at the bike show in March but riding it 20 metres did not tell me much. I am looking forward to the one Epik gives me to test soon and I will be happy to report my impressions of it right here. Melody emailed me two weeks ago and asked me to be the test rider for the new Epik bikes and products because she does not know of anyone who puts on as much mileage as I do. I have owned my Whistler 90 days today and have 5900 kilometres on it. I have been gone for a week and just got back yesterday so I only put on 100 kilometres today. I am in the fortunate position of being able to test new Epik products in the future so I hope to provide lots of useful feedback. I will phone Melody later today to tell her I am back and available to test the Logan. But you will probably have yours first and I look forward to reading your impressions of it.

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