Specialized Turbo

B

Bike_on

100 W
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
164
I stopped by my local bike shop, Princeton Sports, in Columbia, MD. They carry Specialized bikes and had the new Turbo on display. I played dumb for a few minutes looking it over and finally asked for a test ride. After scurrying for 5 min to find a guy who knew how to ride it... I had it figured out already.


About the bike:
Well integrated. Felt like a 48lb bike. I have not been riding in the winter cold, so it felt heavy at first.

The components are solid. Magura disk brakes, maybe carbon handles, I think. Grippy, wide pedals. Integrated front and rear lights, operated by the console.

Rear hub motor is wide, silent, strong on take off. This bike is made to jump on and go - all pedelec. It will get up to speed and maintain 25mph. Not a power hog, but fast enough.

Battery part of long tube. Removable. Chargeable on bike or off.

4 setting: regen, off, low, high - easily toggled with right thumb. NO throttle.

Tires were balloon slicks, maybe 2.25 in or so. I like a little tread.

This is a clean, polished OEM bike. It has a feel of quality in the ride. It will last, but it is pricey at $6.9k or so.

The store has sold 3 so far.

Good rides,
Bike On




It was a medium frame and fit my 5.6 frame well.
 
I encountered one of these on the road and challenged the rider to a race from a stoplight. Totally blew past it with my MAC motor build at only 1600w... wasn't even pedaling very hard.

The guy was surprised that i beat his $6000 bike with a $1300 60lb bike and me being easily 50lbs heavier than him.

I'm like; really? you never heard of DIY, have you? :twisted:


...still want one? :lol:
 
sad part: i didn't even have the MAC tuned for full power.
 
neptronix said:
I encountered one of these on the road and challenged the rider to a race from a stoplight. Totally blew past it with my MAC motor build at only 1600w... wasn't even pedaling very hard.

The guy was surprised that i beat his $6000 bike with a $1300 60lb bike and me being easily 50lbs heavier than him.

I'm like; really? you never heard of DIY, have you? :twisted:


...still want one? :lol:
Click to expand...

Nep-

You sound like a 300lb lineman bragging how he can out bench press a fit 180lb Marine. Their motor is rated at 250W, and I estimate peaks at 800-1000W from the feel of it.

No, I'm not buying one, but I would rent one for a day just for fun.
 
Maybe i am... just wondering why a 140lb lineman should be hired at about 4.5 times the cost as a 300lb. one.
Bad business choice :mrgreen:

The bike i'm talking about is pretty moderate by endless sphere standards..
 
neptronix said:
Maybe i am... just wondering why a 140lb lineman should be hired at about 4.5 times the cost as a 300lb. one.
Bad business choice :mrgreen:

The bike i'm talking about is pretty moderate by endless sphere standards..
Click to expand...


I think I said a MArine. A 300 lb lineman can't do some of the things a Marine can do.

Outside the analogy, the 300 lb NFL linemen DOES make about 4.5x what the normal Marine does. :cry:

Also, I think the DIY community tends to low-ball their costs. They are quick to quote bat, mot, controller and the free bike they got in college. But they don't factor in the wire cutters, special tires, upgraded components, pedals, etc., special battery bags, solder irons, crimpers and all the TIME to assemble and then fix the mistakes.

The OEMs have to pay their employees, the supplies, etc. Still, some are too high for the average person.

To compare, the high end ebike companies will point out that a top of the line mountain bike is $5-6k to justify their 47-10k product. Can the average Joe make a better DIY non-powered mnt bike for $1.8k by buying a kit and assembling it? The point is componentry matters.
 
Okay, maybe i spent $1,400 building a bike that was twice as fast as the specialized turbo.. including tools?
A used aluminum trek mountain bike with a busted rear wheel was figured into my original price.

Let's roll some numbers for someone who is not doing DIY at all ( prebuilt battery pack, completely pre-wired kit )

Trek 820, brand new: $370
em3ev 8T MAC motor kit and 13.8ah 36v battery shipped to my door: $969.91
Charger: ~$100 shipped ( highball price )

Total cost: $1,439.91

( yes you can do a build a lot cheaper than this, btw. )

Functional advantage over the specialized bike: you have a suspension fork and twice the power.
Functional disadvantage over the specialized bike: it weighs more and doesn't look as cool.

Is lower weight and slightly better aesthetics worth an additional $4,500 over this theoretical build?

Just because components are more expensive doesn't make them inherently better in any way other than weight and looks.

Hell, i rode a Trek 820 for 10 years, 18 miles a day, back and forth to work. The only part failure i had as a broken derailleur, which was the result of loading it into a car improperly a few dozen times with the rear wheel off. The bike cost me $150 used in 1998.

Cheap, non-proprietary, simple, and reliable at the expense of ~10lbs of weight is awesome. With 1600W on tap, you're so far beyond thinking about spending an extra $4,500 for something lighter.

If you want to see the ebike revolution to take off, value is important. Most people see these price tags with insane profit margins attached and walk away.
I want more people on ebikes, thus i think about value. This specialized bike is more like an overpriced, slow toy for the middle-upper class.
 
neptronix said:
Okay, maybe i spent $1,400 building a bike that was twice as fast as the specialized turbo.. including tools?
A used aluminum trek mountain bike with a busted rear wheel was figured into my original price.

Let's roll some numbers for someone who is not doing DIY at all ( prebuilt battery pack, completely pre-wired kit )

Trek 820, brand new: $370
em3ev 8T MAC motor kit and 13.8ah 36v battery shipped to my door: $969.91
Charger: ~$100 shipped ( highball price )

Total cost: $1,439.91

( yes you can do a build a lot cheaper than this, btw. )

Functional advantage over the specialized bike: you have a suspension fork and twice the power.
Functional disadvantage over the specialized bike: it weighs more and doesn't look as cool.

Is lower weight and slightly better aesthetics worth an additional $4,500 over this theoretical build?

Just because components are more expensive doesn't make them inherently better in any way other than weight and looks.

Hell, i rode a Trek 820 for 10 years, 18 miles a day, back and forth to work. The only part failure i had as a broken derailleur, which was the result of loading it into a car improperly a few dozen times with the rear wheel off. The bike cost me $150 used in 1998.

Cheap, non-proprietary, simple, and reliable at the expense of ~10lbs of weight is awesome. With 1600W on tap, you're so far beyond thinking about spending an extra $4,500 for something lighter.

If you want to see the ebike revolution to take off, value is important. Most people see these price tags with insane profit margins attached and walk away.
I want more people on ebikes, thus i think about value. This specialized bike is more like an overpriced, slow toy for the middle-upper class.
Click to expand...

You have good points, with the main one being it is overpriced.

However, how is the quality of the Trek 820 brakes compare to the Specialized AMgura hydraulic disc brakes and gear cluster? Add $250 to upgrade.

For the $1420 in costs, what about your time to tinker, build, replace, re-wire at $50 an hour? How many days to wire, tweek, adjust, etc to get it right? Say 40 hours (1 week) = $2000

You also forgot quality accessories and upgrades you add to the Trek 820. Good tires, lights, new pedals, - call it $300

now you are up to:
$1420
+250
+2000
+300
=$3970.

So you are still cheaper and more power. Just not a slick. You win!
 
Bike_on said:
You have good points, with the main one being it is overpriced.

However, how is the quality of the Trek 820 brakes compare to the Specialized AMgura hydraulic disc brakes and gear cluster? Add $250 to upgrade.

For the $1420 in costs, what about your time to tinker, build, replace, re-wire at $50 an hour? How many days to wire, tweek, adjust, etc to get it right? Say 40 hours (1 week) = $2000

You also forgot quality accessories and upgrades you add to the Trek 820. Good tires, lights, new pedals, - call it $300

now you are up to:
$1420
+250
+2000
+300
=$3970.
Click to expand...

Kool stop salmon pads: $30 ( i have used these for confident braking up to 35mph when i weighed 270lbs, so you cannot say they are inadequate )
No rewiring or tinkering needed, so $0.
The specialized bike has bad tires ( completely smooth - horribly awful grip in the wet or sandy! ), so that tires argument applies to that bike too. Add $80 to the cost of *both* bikes for a nice pair of schwalbe puncture proof tires.
The pedals on the cheapo trek are fine.
Lights? $50 or less, but not necessary. A magic shine rig that is better than what comes on the specialized can be in the $100 range, including battery.

So, $110 on top of the trek to upgrade it.
$80 on top of the specialized to upgrade it to tires that can tolerate anything other than a perfect surface.

If your time is worth $50 an hour, you are a member of the middle-upper class i'm talking about - you make around $100,000 a year ( 15% of the population ), so you will not be on this board talking about ebikes, you'll be buying a Tesla or something else - kind of a moot point.

You can install a pre-ebike kit in about an hour; three if you are mechanically retarded.. :)

I'm speaking on the behalf of the other 85% of the population here, not 15%.
 
By the way, i started this hobby pretty electrically and mechanically retarded 4 years ago. My first build cost me $700 on top of an $50 used bike with a 250w geared motor and i had to buy a $10 soldering iron.. and $5 for a pack of zip ties. build time was just a few hours, tops.

firstebike.jpg


Was it goofy? yes. Not elegant? no, not at all. But everyone who asked me about the price and heard the response gawked at it, because they didn't understand the value of an electric bike.

I think there is a massive delta between what you think an electric bicycle is worth & what the general public thinks it's worth.
 
Thanks for the candid review Bike_on.

It's always good to get a non-biased review.
The Turbo represents a benchmark for Endless Spherians to decimate.

Which most do.
 
One last comment. The bike is a very "cool" bike-like looking, and ready to ride option, where you can jump on and ride without thinking about it too much. I like it's feel and moderate acceleration is ok, not awesome. I didn't like those 2" slicks. Wouldn't feel secure and picks up a lot of dirt.
 
How rigid does the frame feel when hill-climbing? Does it climb as nicely as a modern high-end carbon roadbike?

When descending at high speeds, does the motor noticeably slow you?
 
Luke, I was very entertained at some of the first stories you posted on ES about taking a light (Honda?) car and using a turbo to embarrass expensive cars. And yet...the old guys with money continue to buy expensive cars.

The Specialized Turbo ($6,000?), is like a gold Rolex watch, It is worn to show the world how successful you are, not to tell time (which is its secondary function).

I have heard only good things about the performance of the Specialized Turbo, but the price means it will continue to be a low-production status symbol.

The full-suspension Haibike with the Bosch mid-drive is "supposed" to start at $4,000 once they become available in North America.
 
currie 2014 izip peak & dash will have comparable performance to the turbo at less than 1/3 the price.. almost 1/2 of haibike price as well.. full suspension versions next year??? giant is coming as well& trek will follow..
8)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53425#p805717

spinningmagnets said:
Luke, I was very entertained at some of the first stories you posted on ES about taking a light (Honda?) car and using a turbo to embarrass expensive cars. And yet...the old guys with money continue to buy expensive cars.

The Specialized Turbo ($6,000?), is like a gold Rolex watch, It is worn to show the world how successful you are, not to tell time (which is its secondary function).

I have heard only good things about the performance of the Specialized Turbo, but the price means it will continue to be a low-production status symbol.

The full-suspension Haibike with the Bosch mid-drive is "supposed" to start at $4,000 once they become available in North America.
Click to expand...
 
spinningmagnets said:
The Specialized Turbo ($6,000?),
Click to expand...


My friend, in my little hippie-engineer town next to Santa Cruz, $6,000 would be below the average price of the average roadbike I overtake climbing on my steel roadbike with an unpowered front-hub on my daily lunch-ride. My town has the engineering for Fox, Gyro, Bell, Easton's carbon division, and that's just in the 1/4mile area I've come to know. People regularly drive down from San Francisco just to ride the Santa Cruz mountains roads we have.

I went to a roadbike race, and was the single person who didn't have carbon wheels for as far as I could see, and this was the "beginner-novice" group. Our local bike shop actually moves volume of Di2 full component sets, and I think they charge over MSRP.

I personally would not spend $6k for it. I might spend $3k on one used on craiglist or something if it has an excellent motor though. I might also try to source a motor as a replacement part, and stick it on a frame like this if it indeed has an exceptional design.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sample-Carbon-Road-Bike-full-carbon-road-Bicycle-700C-carbon-wheelsets-groupsets-included-full-bike/1570665572.html?af=ppc&isdl=y&src=Google&albch=Google&albcp=Search_Search-ALL-PLA&albkw=None_US-Shopping-Search-Product-AliExpress_none_none&albag=home_none_Search-ALL-PLA_1013999999870&albmt=broad&albst=search-text&albom=OTHERS_None_20130807_Aliexpress&creative=31447451305&ptsid=1013999999870&gclid=CJjP9uuFtL0CFUNhfgodJZwA5g
 
liveforphysics said:
How rigid does the frame feel when hill-climbing? Does it climb as nicely as a modern high-end carbon roadbike?

When descending at high speeds, does the motor noticeably slow you?
Click to expand...

LFP,

It was a 5-10 min ride in a paring lot, so I didn't get to crank on it. It has a stiff fork. Frame is think. It rides like a hybrid bike with 2" tires, not a road bike.

Yes, motor is felt in regen mode at higher speed. I did a test ~ 20+mph.
 
spinningmagnets said:
The Specialized Turbo ($6,000?), is like a gold Rolex watch, It is worn to show the world how successful you are, not to tell time (which is its secondary function).

I have heard only good things about the performance of the Specialized Turbo, but the price means it will continue to be a low-production status symbol.

The full-suspension Haibike with the Bosch mid-drive is "supposed" to start at $4,000 once they become available in North America.
Click to expand...

IMO, it is worth $4k. The quality of th ebuild and componentry and integration. A friend of mine bough a cheap SLA IZIP bike a few years ago and it fell apart. I hope their quality has imporved. The DIY and cheap offerings may work well at first, but the wear from the torque, weight bounce, brakes, and robustness of the electronics will reveal itself under regular, active use. The Specialized looks like a keeper that can do the job. Time will tell.

Yes, DIY guys know how to get it right, but that takes some thoughtful designpackaging, extra bucks and upgrades. Even then there are usually tradeoffs between performance, safety, costs.

A lot of these OEM bikes will work fine in the 15-20mph, smooth road, bike path riding. Go 20-30mph and mixed road surface and you need a different bike.
 
EBR Turbo review.

http://electricbikereview.com/specialized/turbo/

This guys does a lot of reviews. He has his preferrences, I am sure, but reviews are unbiased for profit.

His review covers the bike very well, as I experienced it.
 
I could appreciate the Turbo to be the proverbial whipping boy but please notice that the new e bike models coming out are beating the pants off Turbo in MSRP :D

The first three Haibikes in this link are well over $7000 http://www.motostrano.com/Haibike-Electric-Bikes-s/5497.htm

Felt $6500 and up http://www.motostrano.com/Felt-Electric-Bikes-s/6719.htm

Grace ONE $7000 http://longislandelectricbikes.com/grace-en/grace-one-city-electric-bike.html

Grace PRO $11000 http://longislandelectricbikes.com/grace-en/grace-one-city-electric-bike-617297952.html

There are a few more with higher price tags and comparable features
 
neptronix said:
If your time is worth $50 an hour, you are a member of the middle-upper class i'm talking about.
Click to expand...



I think $50 an hour is very acceptable for equivalent labor, it is your opportunity cost of NOT paying a company to work on a bike. I pay a worker $8 bucks an hour to assemble a bike. Guess what I have to charge so we can cover overhead and insurance? $50 an hour leaves almost nothing left. It's really easy to pick out the shade tree mechanics that don't add in opportunity costs and generally don't have insurance, they only charge hourly for themselves.
 
profit margins in the (pedal) bike business are extremely low..
bikes shops could not stay in business (for long) without service & accessory sales..
im guessing its not much if any easier/ better in the ebike business..
once more bike companies are making high quality ebikes then prices will come down on some..


johnrobholmes said:
neptronix said:
If your time is worth $50 an hour, you are a member of the middle-upper class i'm talking about.
Click to expand...

I think $50 an hour is very acceptable for equivalent labor, it is your opportunity cost of NOT paying a company to work on a bike. I pay a worker $8 bucks an hour to assemble a bike. Guess what I have to charge so we can cover overhead and insurance? $50 an hour leaves almost nothing left. It's really easy to pick out the shade tree mechanics that don't add in opportunity costs and generally don't have insurance, they only charge hourly for themselves.
Click to expand...
 
CNET Review:

http://www.cnet.com/products/specialized-turbo-electric-assisted-bicycle/
 
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