Kelly KLS 300A controller review

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cwah
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Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 14, 2016 7:54 pm

Hello all,

I've finally purchased a higher power controller in order to make sure I have enough acceleration. My current set up is this:
Image

Dahon jetstream with a leafbike 1000W motor, 48V40AH battery with a kelly 300A 36-72V controller:
Image
http://kellycontroller.com/kls7230s24v- ... -1343.html


I reckon the motor is a bit too small for this power... but I don't plan to use full power all the time, only few peak there and there. I'm hoping it would be ok... or it'll be time for me to get a Mxus V2 or bigger.


Wiring diagram of the controller is page 14 which seems quite clear... except for the micro switch (15):
http://kellycontroller.com/mot/download ... alV1.6.pdf


Few questions are arising:
- And I don't have any "Main contactor" or pre-charge resistor, and on the manual it says "All contactors or circuit breakers in the B+ line must have precharge resistors across their contacts. Lack of even one of these precharge resistors may severely damage the controller at switch-on". So what should I do to prevent that without main contactor? Can I just solder pin (7) with battery +?

Thanks
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 15, 2016 2:39 pm

cwah,

I have 2 different Kelly controllers up and working. It seems what Kelly wants is for low voltage part of the controller circuit to be energized first so as there are no high power at start surprises that can happen. In other words they have a tighter control loop than a lot of controllers. The main contactor they suggest as a solenoid could still be a manual power switch but they want it connected parallel to the precharge resistor [Digikey sells this size resistor for about $5] to burn/dampen strartup [inrush currents] transient interference which can pit relay contacts etc. Also if your switches have coils they want a properly connected diode in parallel with the coil. This diode stops wild reverse currents when the field collapses upon turning off the coil switch.

You can either design [with relays or SSR's] a failsafe way to get the low voltage on first or simply have 2 switches and [you must] always remember which switch to turn on first to get power to the low voltage control circuit first.

Both Kelly controllers I have came with both a precharge resistor and several diodes with the positive end labeled with red.
Last edited by DingusMcGee on Jan 17, 2016 9:50 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 15, 2016 2:47 pm

cwah,

from your photo I see you have the precharge resistor and the diodes.
Last edited by DingusMcGee on Jan 17, 2016 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 15, 2016 2:51 pm

cwah,

you ask:
Can I just solder pin (7) with battery
Yes, you could, but then low voltage circuit would be on all the time. How about using an on/off switch?
Last edited by DingusMcGee on Jan 15, 2016 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 15, 2016 2:57 pm

And the customer Service for Kelly USA far exceeds what you'll get from some of our local controller makers and modifiers. So ask for Fany.

cwah
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 16, 2016 4:00 am

Thanks i asked danny and she said it's ok to solder pin 7 with ppsitive lead of battery.

Anythibg wrong with low voltage on all the time?

How should i do the switch?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 16, 2016 6:24 am

You can have low voltage on all the time. Well, until the battery is too low--but a long time. BID the people with lots of stereo equip would keep their sound system ready to go and claimed switching on and off shortened the components life.

How should i do the switch? --- A SPST will work and conceal it? Do you want it conveniently located?

You will probably have to make some choices on these matters.

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 16, 2016 1:40 pm

Yeah ideally conveniently located of course. But what should I buy for that?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 16, 2016 2:59 pm

One you hold your thumb on to keep it on.

cwah
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 18, 2016 9:00 pm

I have a new problem with my kelly controller today.

It was working fine yesterday, but today when I connect my android phone to the controller i have the message "open device failed" then "open flash failed"

Any idea what that means? I rebooted and it still has the same problem. Wiring seems ok.
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 19, 2016 10:59 am

see this for a simple precharge switch:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=75048

cwah
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 19, 2016 4:52 pm

Yes thanks I'll try to get something like this.

Any idea what's my pb with my connector? I'm really annoyed it doesn't work anymore :/
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

cwah
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 20, 2016 6:07 pm

Good news, for some reason I don't understand the connector works again.

I have been able to configure the controller with my phone. Maybe it was some water inside because the controller isn't waterproof? I hope it will keep working.

I have set battery current to 100% and phase current to 100%.

But now when I accelerate from stop the motor stops and I have 2 red blinks + 3 red blinks.

Any idea what I should do to avoid that? Is there any way I can use controller current at 100%?

Thank you
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by izeman » Jan 21, 2016 2:10 am

why not simply check the manual for 2+3 red blinks? if you don't understand what the error message means, then post the error message here.

cwah
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 21, 2016 2:53 am

I checked the manual and can read the problem. However I don't understand how it can happem because O just accelerated for 0.3s before it cut off.

I thought that maybe 100% current is not good for kelly controller? Anyone has experience on it? Any recommendations?
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by izeman » Jan 21, 2016 6:18 am

cwah wrote:I checked the manual and can read the problem. However I don't understand how it can happem because O just accelerated for 0.3s before it cut off. I thought that maybe 100% current is not good for kelly controller? Anyone has experience on it? Any recommendations?
as you didn't post the error message so everyone not having the manual dl'd can contribute as well, i'll do it:

Code: Select all

2+3 blinks means: over temperature: The controller temperature has exceeded 100°C. The controller will be stopped but will restart when temperature falls below 80°C.
if this REALLY is the error code then something is broken. no way the controller reach this temperature within seconds. so i suppose your error code may be 3+2 blinks.

Code: Select all

3+2 blinks means: Internal reset: May be caused by some transient fault condition like a temporary over-current, momentarily high or low battery voltage. This can happen during normal operation.
this makes more sense. and i can be caused by many different things. it could be that your battery is almost empty and voltage sag pulls it down too much. some problem with the motor, so the controller trips it's safety feature to not burn the FETs or the windings.
i would set max current to a reasonable value. but to give an advise we would need to know your wishes. how many watts do you want your ride to have?

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 21, 2016 9:39 pm

I don't have wattmeter... and only neptune lite to make sure all cells are not overdischarged:
http://www.speedict.com/

I found it way more useful as it gives indication at the cell level and made me aware of insufficient robustness of wiring on some cells that I repaired after.


So I know it's not battery overdischarge because I can see from it that it's ok.


It might be the motor because I only use a 1000W leafmotor with very thin phase wires.... but how can a controller know it may damage motor windings or fet??


My wish is to have a max current as possible for start. Ideally strong enough for wheelie and I'm not close to that yet. However, it starts decently fast.

So as high as the system can do without failure is my wish... :mrgreen:
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by izeman » Jan 22, 2016 3:42 am

well, this is still some vague statement. :)
i can't tell you how much the 1000w leaf motor can take continously. but let's say you want 2000w max. and your battery is 50v. than that's 40a sustained. so this is what you want battery current to be set.
you have two settings: current percent, and battery limit.
your controller is rated 300a phase current. i would try a phase current of about 80a. so this is 80/300 = 25%. and then set battery limit to 50% (of 80a = 40a). this is how it is SUPPOSED to work.
but as your controller is so heavily OVERRATED, i can't guarantee that it will work (fany once made a comment on settings set too low can cause problems).
another idea is to set those values to eg. 70% and 50% and let the CA-v3 do the actual limiting. that may be the better plan.
good luck!

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 23, 2016 7:27 am

I know, ideally I'd like to limit to the absolutely maximum the controller and motor can take :mrgreen:

I'd be very unhappy to put 25% current rating... having such a big box on my bike!
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by izeman » Jan 23, 2016 10:34 am

ok. this is something different, so not only 1000w. but still the controller is 2 sizes bigger than what the motor can take.
i don't know the limits for the leaf motor. find out, search the forum, post your findings and we will find a setting that perfectly fits.

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 24, 2016 9:11 am

I'm just annoyed not being able to use the controller at 100% power for burst.

So what's the 100% current for? Are you ever using 100%?
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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by izeman » Jan 24, 2016 10:16 am

cwah wrote:I'm just annoyed not being able to use the controller at 100% power for burst.
So what's the 100% current for? Are you ever using 100%?
i guess you're demanding something impossible. just because you bought a controller capable of doing 300A phase, doesn't mean your motor can do. it's like connecting a 12V lamp to the wall outlet. it WILL light brigher, but only for a fraction of a second, and then it will be dead. same goes for your motor. it has a limit.
i don't know that limit. but the forum for sure gives you an idea. maybe it can do 3000w. for a 50v battery this would mean 60a sustained, and maybe 100a phase. but never ever 300a. :(

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 24, 2016 2:10 pm

So i need to upgrade my motor? Would the mxus v2 good enough for max power?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by cwah » Jan 24, 2016 2:15 pm

I'm thinking of this motor
http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32278350534.html

Would that solve my pb?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: Kelly KLS 300A controller review

Post by eee291 » Jan 25, 2016 8:05 am

cwah wrote:I'm thinking of this motor
http://m.aliexpress.com/item-desc/32278350534.html

Would that solve my pb?

You can use 100% for boost with that motor but it is pretty dangerous, yesterday I set the controller for 100% phase and 20% battery current and by tapping the throttle I pulled a wheelie and the bike flipped and I landed on my back, so I'm pretty sure you can use 100% if you slow the throttle response a little bit like 1.5 sec or more.


Your motor will take a few second bursts at full power no problem

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