2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

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Did you Vote?

Poll ended at Nov 09, 2010 3:15 pm

Yes.
14
74%
No.
2
11%
N/A
0
No votes
Don’t Care!
3
16%
 
Total votes: 19

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 04, 2010 9:51 pm

liveforphysics wrote:If the government paid you a fine living wage to dig holes in your back yard for example, it doesn't matter that you're employed and working, you're just dragging down the producer companies that are paying your salary.
Well said!!

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by julesa » Nov 04, 2010 10:38 pm

liveforphysics wrote:Remember, we've got LOADs of government jobs that do nothing but hurt our economy.
Here's the web site where you can report all the unneeded government backyard hole-diggers that you know about personally. It's your patriotic duty, isn't it?
http://www.obamasuggestionbox.com/
Last edited by julesa on Nov 04, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 04, 2010 11:01 pm

You've GOT to be kidding right? They may as well call that obamashitcan.com, because that's exactly where any suggestion of trimming the fat in gov't is going to go as long as he's prez!

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by julesa » Nov 04, 2010 11:05 pm

StudEbiker wrote:You've GOT to be kidding right? They may as well call that obamashitcan.com, because that's exactly where any suggestion of trimming the fat in gov't is going to go as long as he's prez!
Give me a holler when you can show me a fact or two that helped you form that opinion.
Ah, screw it, we're just wasting each others' time.
Last edited by julesa on Nov 04, 2010 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 04, 2010 11:14 pm

Why don't you show me how he HAS reduced the size of gov't. Me trying to show you that he hasn't trimmed fat is ridiculous on the face of it. Anyone that's been paying attention AT ALL knows that reducing the size of gov't is not one of Obummer's goals. Health care mandate anyone??

I see you edited your post a couple of times. In response to one of your last edits.....health care mandate.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by julesa » Nov 05, 2010 12:19 am

Our health care system was broken before the reform. I don't know that it will get better now, but it was seriously broken before. Time will tell whether the reform bill will help control costs. I'm skeptical. On the other hand, I don't think it will be an overwhelming burden either.

US tax money spent on health care (medicare, medicaid, etc.) was more than is spent by many other countries where that tax money is ALL they spend on health care, for ALL their citizens. It was incredibly wasteful back in 2007. It's not gonna get significantly worse. It might even get better. Look at th countries below between the US and the OECD average. Almost all of these countries have what you would call socialized health care. Can your philosophy explain how many of them can afford to have higher health standards and better health outcomes than we do, while ALL of them are spending far, far less of their precious money?

(edited to host image locally):
oecd_2007_health.gif
oecd_2007_health.gif (36.43 KiB) Viewed 2985 times
The stimulus has been working. Not as fast as anyone would like, but things have been getting better.
Image

I wish it was as simple as "big government bad, small government good." It's just not that simple. Good night.
Last edited by julesa on Nov 05, 2010 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by julesa » Nov 05, 2010 12:28 am

StudEbiker wrote:Why don't you show me how he HAS reduced the size of gov't. Me trying to show you that he hasn't trimmed fat is ridiculous on the face of it. Anyone that's been paying attention AT ALL knows that reducing the size of gov't is not one of Obummer's goals.
Here you go.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... than-bush/
Not that the number of cuts is important at all. It would be nice if the dollar amounts were higher. But like I said before, now's a bad time to make huge sweeping cuts. Keep the economy going. Make big infrastructure investments now on borrowed money that will pay off in reduced infrastructure spending over the next five or ten years. They're not digging holes and filling them in again, they're building bridges and digging tunnels.
Last edited by julesa on Nov 05, 2010 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by AndyH » Nov 05, 2010 12:34 am

Stud - I'm retired USAF, pro-business, and have voted Republican since I turned 18. But no longer. Even while I was still in uniform, I cringed when some big company got a contract to deliver me a system that didn't do what I needed, was slower, and 3x more expensive than the systems I had - all because of some Republican 'pro defense' 'pro freedom' pro yada yada politician worked a sweetheart deal today that set himself up with a retirement job once he left office.

I didn't vote for our president (didn't vote repub either) - but have to give the man a heap of credit for keeping this country from heading down 1929 part deux after the crap he and his administration were handed. We're still coming out of triage and initial first aid. We're still 'alive' today because of the initial care - now we continue to transition to growth. It'll be slower, but it'll be nice to see if the progressives can show this country that we don't need a world war to 'grow' us out of a depression this time around...

And while 'obamacare' is a fun slur for the faux 'news' infotainment talking heads, too many of my friends - including folks that I served with - cannot get health insurance at any price. There are people in this country dying because they cannot get health insurance - and even when they walk into a hospital with a suitcase full of money cannot get the care they need because the entire system is based on being insured! That's not the country I served for!

I swore an oath to defend this country and the Constitution that gives us all free speech - but don't feel too badly if I don't agree with what you say. :wink: :)

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 05, 2010 1:36 am

AndyH wrote:Stud - I'm retired USAF, pro-business, and have voted Republican since I turned 18. But no longer. Even while I was still in uniform, I cringed when some big company got a contract to deliver me a system that didn't do what I needed, was slower, and 3x more expensive than the systems I had - all because of some Republican 'pro defense' 'pro freedom' pro yada yada politician worked a sweetheart deal today that set himself up with a retirement job once he left office.

I didn't vote for our president (didn't vote repub either) - but have to give the man a heap of credit for keeping this country from heading down 1929 part deux after the crap he and his administration were handed. We're still coming out of triage and initial first aid. We're still 'alive' today because of the initial care - now we continue to transition to growth. It'll be slower, but it'll be nice to see if the progressives can show this country that we don't need a world war to 'grow' us out of a depression this time around...

And while 'obamacare' is a fun slur for the faux 'news' infotainment talking heads, too many of my friends - including folks that I served with - cannot get health insurance at any price. There are people in this country dying because they cannot get health insurance - and even when they walk into a hospital with a suitcase full of money cannot get the care they need because the entire system is based on being insured! That's not the country I served for!

I swore an oath to defend this country and the Constitution that gives us all free speech - but don't feel too badly if I don't agree with what you say. :wink: :)
First off, thank you for your service. Does your defending of the Constitution include the Tenth Amendment or just the First?? If you like the Tenth Amendment then Obamacare should be anathema to your being. Um, but I think if I recall correctly it was actually "the progressives" (FDR Administration) that led us into the last world war to get us out of the last depression. :wink: I am not a Republican, I am a conservative, so I wouldn't defend the practices you quote in your first paragraph. As far as the "stimulus" "keeping us alive", you mean the one that when they passed they said that if they DIDN'T pass it unemployment would go as high as 8%?? :roll: I wouldn't think you served so that the federal gov't could dictate that YOU MUST have health care. From what you've said, that sounds like something you shouldn't agree with, yet it seems like something you are in favor of. I sense some contradictions in your philosophy. :|

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Lessss » Nov 05, 2010 7:19 am

....sits back and chuckles.
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by julesa » Nov 05, 2010 9:02 am

StudEbiker wrote:First off, thank you for your service. Does your defending of the Constitution include the Tenth Amendment or just the First?? If you like the Tenth Amendment then Obamacare should be anathema to your being. Um, but I think if I recall correctly it was actually "the progressives" (FDR Administration) that led us into the last world war to get us out of the last depression.
Wow. :shock:

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Lessss » Nov 05, 2010 9:09 am

....still sitting back and chuckling.

You all might want to make sure to shrink your pictures to fit.
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Kingfish » Nov 05, 2010 1:12 pm

StudEbiker wrote:“First off, thank you for your service. Does your defending of the Constitution include the Tenth Amendment or just the First??”
Which part of the Tenth Amendment are you referring to?

Regardless, it is an amusing quotation. Did you know that the US Military cannot engage in US civilian matters; this is the providence of the National Guard which is managed by States’ Governors, though can be loaned out in time of national crisis such as firefighting or border patrol. I have yet to see the National Guard used for enforcement of social issues of healthcare or even taxation. In the latter, the US Treasury Department would be called in.

In the purest form, Capitalism is an economic system where production is privately held, and innately resists forms of government. A Republic is a system of government without a monarch (or tyrant), and by which the people of have some portion of ultimate control. A Democracy is a political system of government derived by popular referendum. Socialism is an economic system wherein the public cooperatively shares ownership and management of resources for production of goods and services. Welfare consists of actions or measures taken by noble individuals, institutions, and government to provide for the basic well-being of individuals for the betterment of Society at large.

Before Welfare, none of the previous systems mentioned address individual well-being (profiteering excluded). In the United States, we are a capitalistic Democratic Republic with modest social services, many of which are managed by private corporations. A brief history of Welfare dating back to Roman times is given here.

I think that StudEbiker you must be a Capitalist in the purest form. I say that because you ignore or resist government, and the injustice that has been born onto the individual by corporations profiteering under reduced regulation brought on by Republicans. Organized Labor is one form of oversight managed by private organizations though born as a tax upon the conscripted. These Labor Unions had their place in History long ago, though I think today they are a drag on our culture – being equally greedy and very socialistic.

Government Service, and pensions provided vary between the services. Some make good sense and should be retained. Social Security was designed to provide a safety net for the retired work force though today it is a joke and likely will become bankrupt by the time I could draw upon it unless there is reform however long overdue. Unemployment Benefits is another social service that is paid as a tax upon the common workforce using W-2 employment declarations.

I am self-employed. I do not pay into the Unemployment system. I starve between jobs and work overtime at every opportunity. I provide for my own welfare, medical, dental, and optometry out of pocket – cash. With insurance, I do what is legal, required, and practical; the one fee I cannot avoid without severe legal consequences should unfortunate matters occur. Once long ago I claimed unemployment benefits for two weeks and I was made to feel hugely guilty by the authoritarian administration for taking them. Years and years I paid into that system; becoming self-employed freed me of that obligation.

Regardless of my personal thrift – having affordable healthcare makes good sense. The United States is in such a troglodyte compared to other countries in this regard. At this point - taking national healthcare is still an option; I can elect to purchase my own plan. Paying cash though typically leads to 10-15% reduction of the bill – and without that extra layer of profiteering. Fortunately I am in excellent health (knock on skull).

Still, I would not begrudge people of this country the right to affordable choices. Insurance, malpractice, healthcare, mortgage, Wall Street, Oil & Mining, and many more corporate sectors require public oversight – not burdensome oversight – just practical oversight. The Obama Administration targeted specifically a tiny portion of the fat bloated wreckless-profiteering sectors of the economy that contributed to the pilfering of the public coffers. These corporations are crying now like French protesters and will do much to reverse and retain the profit model they once had. I have no sympathy.

Is the Democratic Party doing the best job they could? No; they could do far better! Are the Republicans doing the best job they could? Definitely no; they are joined at the hip to Capitalism! The only thing worse are the Tea-baggers which are plainly uneducated.

The best that I can possibly do is to bring my horse to good water and pray she drinks. :|
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Lessss » Nov 05, 2010 1:23 pm

Republic
and by which the people of have some portion of ultimate control.
and by which the RICH LAND OWNING people of have some portion of ultimate control.


you REALLY want to know why your country is falling apart??

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Kingfish » Nov 05, 2010 2:56 pm

Lessss wrote:Republic
and by which the people of have some portion of ultimate control.
and by which the RICH LAND OWNING people of have some portion of ultimate control.
Everybody 18 years old or above that is not a convicted felon has the right to vote in this country. Having land does not give you more votes, though it does imply wealth and status to some measure. I should think that having a great many social contacts with other prominent people would have vastly more influence in a public forum with regards to voting rather than purely land ownership.

Lessss, allow me to clarify the history of citizen’s rights & voting in the United States:
  • Fourteenth Amendment (1868) provides a broad definition of citizenship which previously prevented slaves from becoming so.
  • Fifteenth Amendment (1870) prohibits each government in the United States from denying a citizen the right to vote on that citizen's "race, color, or previous condition of servitude" (i.e., slavery).
  • Nineteenth Amendment (1920) prohibits each state and the federal government from denying any citizen the right to vote based on that citizen's sex.
  • Twenty-fourth Amendment (1962) prohibits both Congress and the states from conditioning the right to vote in federal elections on payment of a poll tax or other types of tax.
  • Twenty-sixth Amendment (1971) limited the minimum voting age to no more than 18.
Land ownership hasn’t been a factor in the status of voting rights in the United States since before the founding of Canada.
Lessss wrote:you REALLY want to know why your country is falling apart??
From you? No. I live here and have a very good grasp on what is good and evil, what is working and what is corrupt – much more than I dare say you could possibly contribute. Likewise – it would be inappropriate for me to insert myself into the politics of another country in an authoritative manner without first becoming a citizen. Though I retain the right to speak freely about the actions of any country affecting mine, and reverse.

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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 05, 2010 4:22 pm

julesa wrote:
StudEbiker wrote:First off, thank you for your service. Does your defending of the Constitution include the Tenth Amendment or just the First?? If you like the Tenth Amendment then Obamacare should be anathema to your being. Um, but I think if I recall correctly it was actually "the progressives" (FDR Administration) that led us into the last world war to get us out of the last depression.
Wow. :shock:
I have no idea what you are wowing about that comment. I give you the same WOW :shock: for coming on here and trying to promote Obama as a champion of smaller gov't. Now that is a WOW! As far as "what part" of the Tenth Amendment? It seems to me there is just one part, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." I may be just one of those "uneducated" tea partiers, but I don't see anything in there about the national guard :wink: .....so whatever. :roll:

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Lessss » Nov 05, 2010 4:46 pm

Kingfish. You seem to be under the delusion that the popular vote means something. It doesn't. Look up "electoral college". Ignore the candy coating and smoke in mirrors that keep the general population under control.
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Kingfish » Nov 05, 2010 7:50 pm

Lessss, you’ve missed it again: The Electoral College does not affect local & State government, only the casting of the final vote for Presidential ticket based upon popular vote – and that is all. By direct popular election of the House of Representatives they in turn become Electors representing the noble goodwill of the populace.

In rare exceptions the total EC vote has gone counter to the popular trend – most grievously when G.W. Bush was promoted over Al Gore in 2000, perhaps presaging the darkest period of Government manipulation by a collective few since that which followed after the assassination of J.F. Kennedy, expanding involvement in the Vietnam War. The EC is an archaic holdover from Colonial days - established in a time when most people of this nation were not well-educated, and although the history of it is quite fascinating, it just doesn’t have a place in the modern world. The abolishment has been argued time and again every generation since. I have strongly supported abolishment since it was a national debate topic for students during my high school years; a period of my life where I was also very active in forensics, Model Government and Model UN. Once I considered becoming a lawyer, but I found that I liked the creativity of engineering, being more satisfying. Still – the diligence of investigation, arbitration, & procedural law thrives within my being.

I encourage all people to vote, all the time, everywhere :!:

~KF
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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
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The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.
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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by StudEbiker » Nov 05, 2010 8:15 pm

Kingfish wrote:The only thing worse are the Tea-baggers which are plainly uneducated.
It's a shame, a down right shame, that the tea partiers can't be as "educated" as these geniuses! :lol:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopOpinion

Good News for Liberals!

Sam Tanenhaus, editor of the New York Times Book Review, last year published a quickie book, "The Death of Conservatism," based on a February 2009 piece in The New Republic. "As Tanenhaus sees it," National Public Radio's Robert Siegel explained in introducing an interview, "American conservatism has degenerated into a hollow echo-chamber of movement die-hards and talk show hosts, disconnected from the broad public, which until recently it spoke for."

NPR put the interview on its website under the headline "Author: Liberals Should Lament Conservatism's Death." This week's election results make clear beyond doubt that conservatism is alive and well. So liberals don't have to lament after all!

Of course, not all liberals were lamenting conservatism's putative death. In "40 More Years: How the Democrats Will Rule the Next Generation," published in May 2009, James Carville gloated: "Republicans have no hope of making serious inroads into Democratic advantages in 2010, or likely in 2012 and 2014 and so on. It's time to call TOD on the GOP." We think TOD stands for "time of death."

The month earlier, political analyst Stuart Rothenberg noted that a trio of Republicans "have raised the possibility of the GOP winning back the House of Representatives next year":

That idea is lunacy and ought to be put to rest immediately.
None of the three actually predicted that Republicans would gain the 40 seats that they need for a majority, but all three held out hope that that's possible. It isn't. . . .
there are no signs of a dramatic rebound for the party, and the chance of Republicans winning control of either chamber in the 2010 midterm elections is zero. Not "close to zero." Not "slight" or "small." Zero.
Big changes in the House require a political wave. You can cherry-pick your way to a five- or eight-seat gain, but to win dozens of seats, a party needs a wave.
Recruiting better candidates and running better campaigns won't produce anything like what took place in 1980, 1994, 2006 and 2008, when waves resulted in huge gains for one party. The current political environment actually minimizes the chance of a near-term wave developing.
The problem for Republicans is that they aren't yet in the position--and won't be in one by November of next year--to run on a pure message of change, or on pent-up demand for change.
Waves are built on dissatisfaction and frustration, and there is little in national survey data that suggest most voters are upset with President Barack Obama's performance or the performance of his party.
Hey, who could have expected Barack Obama would actually change anything in a year and a half? Then there's former Enron adviser Paul Krugman, writing in October 2009:

Lots of buzz about the possibility that 2010 will be another 1994, with the triumphant conservative majority sweeping back into its rightful place of power. And of course, anything is possible.
But the signs really don't point to that. . . .
Here in my home state, it's looking increasingly likely that Corzine will beat Christie after all. And while some of that reflects Christie's various personal issues, plus Corzine's willingness to bring out the brass knuckles--as we say in New Jersey, you got a problem with that?--it also, I think, reflects the fact that Christie can't explain what he would do differently. These days, the Republicans are the party of no ideas--and it shows.
As we say in New York, fuhgettaboutit.

Here's how MSNBC ranter Keith Olbermann sized up the political implications of ObamaCare's passage back in March:

Failed, Mr. Boehner. You lost. You blew it. . . . I would think the "will and desires of your fellow countrymen" should be pretty damn clear by now: Your countrymen think your policies are of the past, and your tactics are of the gutter. . . . And so I offer this olive branch to the defeated Republicans and Tea Partiers. . . . You are rapidly moving from "The Party of No," past "The Party of No Conscience," towards "The Party of No Relevancy." You are behind the wheel of a political Toyota. And before the mid-terms, you will have been reduced to only being this generation's home for the nuts.
First of all, "behind the wheel"? We thought they were standing alongside the car sipping a Slurpee. Second, that's Mr. Speaker.

"Critics notwithstanding," Time's Mark Halperin wrote in April 2010, "the President is on a path to be a huge success by the time of November's midterm elections. Among Halperin's observations: "The health care bill's passage is, of course, the White House's signal achievement." Of course! And: "Obama has largely . . . preserved the majesty of the office." Ha ha, Slurpee anyone?

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by mdd0127 » Nov 06, 2010 12:55 pm

Anybody ever watch K-Street? :puke:

That last post reminded me of it.

What a joke.

The boat's going down.....better learn to swim.
Turn it OFF!!!

Apocaloptimist! (thx Kiwi!)

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by AndyH » Nov 06, 2010 4:31 pm

StudEbiker wrote:First off, thank you for your service.
Thank you. It was an honor to serve this country and her people.
StudEbiker wrote: Does your defending of the Constitution include the Tenth Amendment or just the First?? If you like the Tenth Amendment then Obamacare should be anathema to your being. Um, but I think if I recall correctly it was actually "the progressives" (FDR Administration) that led us into the last world war to get us out of the last depression. :wink: I am not a Republican, I am a conservative, so I wouldn't defend the practices you quote in your first paragraph. As far as the "stimulus" "keeping us alive", you mean the one that when they passed they said that if they DIDN'T pass it unemployment would go as high as 8%?? :roll: I wouldn't think you served so that the federal gov't could dictate that YOU MUST have health care. From what you've said, that sounds like something you shouldn't agree with, yet it seems like something you are in favor of. I sense some contradictions in your philosophy. :|
I'm not going to respond line by line as I don't expect it do any good. However, please recall that FDR apparently desired to keep us out of WWII. I'm not old enough to speak of this from personal experience, but I was under the impression that WWII was brought to our shores, not entered into in order to either rebuild our economy or posture for control of raw materials. I don't believe the folks that got us involved in the Middle East were as eager to keep us out of war first and foremost - especially when it could support our need for oil and provide the 'stimulus' to our economy that met their political goals at the same time. I find it sad that a stimulus plan that does not require bloodshed can be seen as bad - especially when it's working.

I'm not surprised that you would 'go there' with regard to stimulus or health care. Fear not - as far as I'm concerned the entire Constitution is in play. Though, as with any document or idea put into place by folks apparently wiser than many 21st century Americans, there's room for various interpretations and thus corruptions of the original intent - especially by any group hell-bent on power over all else.

This is the same situation that allows any extremist of any persuasion to 'prove' the superiority of their cause in order to gain followers that would otherwise not agree had they made themselves aware of the source documents FIRST before receiving the 'preferred interpretation' message.

Unfortunately, we're in an age of short attention spans, sound bites, and people that don't take the time to understand the entire picture before joining a 'movement' that fills their need for belonging.

I see the current fear-mongering extremist side of our political system in the same light as cold war propaganda and the corruptions of core philosophy that allowed such classics as the Inquisition and the Crusades. In other words, people that have to scream that they are the 'true' Patriots usually are not.

But hey - I'm human and could be wrong.

Have a great weekend.

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Re: 2010 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by gogo » Nov 06, 2010 5:28 pm

Kingfish wrote: In the United States, we are a capitalistic Democratic Republic
That is what we have effectively become, its true. I would like us to get closer to our original definition as a federal constitutional republic comprising fifty states and a federal district. The genius of our system over others has been the individual liberty recognized in the Constitution. I would argue that to the extent that peoples enjoy individual liberty, they prosper.

I really don't see much difference between our political parties. They have become self serving by seizing power through the promotion of the idea that we are a democracy that can vote away individual rights. Our government, instead of primarily protecting individual rights, is increasingly becoming the agent of their violation.
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking." -Steven Wright

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Re: 2014 U.S. Mid-Terms: Did you Vote?

Post by Kingfish » Nov 04, 2014 9:53 pm

I also voted in 2014, though I am unsure it will make a difference. Predictions in the USA suggest the Reps will take control of the Senate. The worst-ever Do Nothing Congress might actually then do something, though I doubt it will be to the benefit of any class but their own.

Already disappointed by the early results. Have we learned nothing from these idiots and their supporters?
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