Why I don't hide my wires in the bike frame

I finally had some time since this past weekend to put my Hightekbike kit together and the wiring makes it look horrible. It's a big mess. There's 5 cables! Surely hiding the wires into the frame would be a pretty big task. It would involve:

- Drilling holes
- Breaking down the cables so it'd fit through. Each head of each cable would have to be removed to expose probably about 10+ wires.
- Identifying, purchasing, waiting for and installing grommets of some sort.
- Finding some way to fish the wires from one end of the frame to the other.

It seems to be well worth the effort though. I can imagine the outcome would be awesome. It's tough to make the 5 cables look sleek as they come down the headset, across the top tube towards the back where the battery and controller will be mounted. I did this on a different bike than I originally intended and this bike is blue. I can't imagine how horrible it'd look on a white framed bike.

So what are your thoughts? Anything I should be forewarned about before even attempting to hide the wires inside the frame? My idea is to drill a whole in front of the headset and feed all the handlebar mounted cables from there straight through the top tube and out either the top just before the seat post or somewhere around there. Yes, I'll have to get two grommets for either end as the cables enter the frame and exit the frame. This will prevent rubbing of a rough steel frame and the cable housing.

For me? So many wires that I'd have a hole big enough to seriously weaken the frame. :lol:

I did actually drill holes in the DayGlo Avenger frame to run the wires on my original friction drive, and that worked ok, including the ones that ran thru the handlebar and into the stem/etc., but once I started doing the hubmotor thing there were too many wires that were too thick, and it didn't work anymore--the holes would've been too big without reinforcement.


Another issue is fishing the wires thru there, without having pre-installed tubing from one hole to another during the frame build (which is done on even some regular bikes for the brake/shifter cables).

Brake and shifter cables are black, and they are already on your bike. Do what I did and push all your cables thru a fat black shrink tube. It's not 100% stealth, but most people won't notice it as it will almost look like just another brake cable.

I've always hidden mine in a frame bag or rear rack along with the controller, which is overspecced to the point where it doesn't need air cooling.

I don't think drilling holes in your bike is a good idea. Your bike will rust or oxidize depending on the material, over a long period of time, unless you have the wires sealed or the interior painted/coated. And if you have to redo your wiring ( which i have done dozens of times now over various upgrades and bike frames ), well that's a pain in the ass.



^--- all wires in the rear rack.



^-- all wires in the battery bag ( and very clean )


Frame bags come in various sizes and shapes. I recommend using one to clean things up if your frame or styling needs allow for it.

Thanks for taking the time to load the pics. I have a Trek too. How did you get the wires from the handlebar to the bag though? It's not the slack I'm trying to hide (although I will be, but that's not a concern yet) - it's the initial route from the front to the rear.

Wires:
- Power button
- Extra front brake cable
- Extra rear brake cable
- Throttle cable
- Motor cable (but that's already in the rear where I'm mounting the battery, so no biggy).

miuan said:

Brake and shifter cables are black, and they are already on your bike. Do what I did and push all your cables thru a fat black shrink tube. It's not 100% stealth, but most people won't notice it as it will almost look like just another brake cable.

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That's a good idea. Turn two wires into one! I'll try that. Not sure where to get shrink tube that long though. Where'd you get yours?

Epic, unfinished tale of submersible bike, by a former member.



http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7454&p=120349#p120349

I voted that I don't really care, but really there just wasn't any need. My wires go pretty much un-noticed. They are all black and are ran with the black brake cables all held together with black zip ties, all to a black frame. Drilling my frame for a cleaner look would just be a PITA.

You should add a vote for performance guys. Its the fear the will short out and or the big gauge will simply not fit.

You shouldn't run power or control cables inside the frame for the same reasons you shouldn't run brake and shifter cables inside the frame. It complicates maintenance (a lot), it puts stress risers in the stressed portions of the tubes, it limits the size and number of cables, it allows the ingress of water and other contaminants, and it can damage the cables where they pass through drilled holes. Good careful cable routing looks sharp anyway.

I like to use the plastic flexible loom stuff they make for car wires. It comes in different diameters so you can easily stuff an appropriate number of wires into it. Also comes in different colors, but I always just use black, which is cheapest.

Use the kind that has a continuous slit on one side, which locks together when you get the wires in it. I don't like the continuous spiral type.

Then just use matching color zip ties to neatly attach the wires to the bike.

kmx; that particular falconEV bag has a slot near the front headtube towards the handlebars, and a slot exiting towards the rear wheel. You could do a similar thing to help hide the wires..

So i have my throttle cable following along with my left brake cable into the bag.
And my motor power cable going along the frame as if it was a rear brake cable.

Nobody can really tell it's electric unless they know..

I tape the wires to the frame with 2" wide, heavy duty, frame colored, stretchy plastic tape. Very stealthy. Comes in all colors...

Neptronix wrote:Your bike will rust or oxidize depending on the material, over a long period of time, unless you have the wires sealed or the interior painted/coated.

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You don't live in New Mexico obviously. Rust what's that? Sunburn I know rust never heard of it. lol. I run with my wires exposed and the few times it has rained I just waited for it to stop.

www.recumbents.com said:

I tape the wires to the frame with 2" wide, heavy duty, frame colored, stretchy plastic tape. Very stealthy. Comes in all colors...

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That's a good idea. And I also like that it comes from a low racer recumbent rider! That looks like a VeloKraft Nocom! Awesome.

Chalo said:

You shouldn't run power or control cables inside the frame for the same reasons you shouldn't run brake and shifter cables inside the frame. It complicates maintenance (a lot), it puts stress risers in the stressed portions of the tubes, it limits the size and number of cables, it allows the ingress of water and other contaminants, and it can damage the cables where they pass through drilled holes. Good careful cable routing looks sharp anyway.

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I'm thinking some grommets might do the trick. Researching for them now. Please let me know if you or anyone else knows where I can get some cool ones. The widest part of the 4 wires bunched up together is about 8.5mm or 0.33 inches. Something like that. I can also put them into the frame separately which might be a better idea. Something like this:

Note that those frames don't just have holes in them; they almost certainly have tubes brazed or welded (metal frames) or bonded (carbon frames) in place, to make actually getting the cables thru the frame possible.

Fishing cables thru a frame like that without built-in tubes is very difficult unless you have holes in the frame that are so large they may significantly weaken the frame. (based on my limited experiences trying to do this).

How about why we did hide our wires in the frame? You did not have a place for that. My Giant trance3 has factory holes, that just happen to be in the right place and the right size, in the rear triangle tubing so it is more than convenient to put the wires there. I only had to remove a few burrs to get them to fit in and then fish them out the other side. First pic shows the wrong side of the frame but you get the just of it. Brake switch wire shows on the top tube of the triangle, in pic three, is in the tube now also.
Suspension requires some movement in the wires so the halls and phase wires go up to the controller kind of in the open but behind the chainring so not easily seen.
Not sure I would drill holes elsewhere in the frame seeing it is as thin walled as it is.

amberwolf said:

Note that those frames don't just have holes in them; they almost certainly have tubes brazed or welded (metal frames) or bonded (carbon frames) in place, to make actually getting the cables thru the frame possible.

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Possible, but still an unnecessary hassle with no practical benefit. I only rarely have to work on such bikes, because internal cable routing has always been uncommon-- but come tuneup time, that's the easiest way to NOT get a new piece of cable housing when it would otherwise be a good idea.

Some such bikes do and some don't have guide tubes, and on old steel bikes with internal routing (faddish in the 1980s), corrosion can cause the cable housing to become stuck in place, or rust can erode the guide tube all the way through. If there's no guide tube, I fish through a piece of inner wire first, and then use it to pilot a piece of housing down the same path. It's a big ol' pain in the butt that I can't imagine any experienced bike mechanic inflicting on his own bike on purpose.

Chalo

Chalo said:

amberwolf said:

Note that those frames don't just have holes in them; they almost certainly have tubes brazed or welded (metal frames) or bonded (carbon frames) in place, to make actually getting the cables thru the frame possible.

Click to expand...

Possible, but still an unnecessary hassle with no practical benefit. I only rarely have to work on such bikes, because internal cable routing has always been uncommon-- but come tuneup time, that's the easiest way to NOT get a new piece of cable housing when it would otherwise be a good idea.

Some such bikes do and some don't have guide tubes, and on old steel bikes with internal routing (faddish in the 1980s), corrosion can cause the cable housing to become stuck in place, or rust can erode the guide tube all the way through. If there's no guide tube, I fish through a piece of inner wire first, and the use it to pilot a piece of housing down the same path. It's a big ol' pain in the butt that I can't imagine any experienced bike mechanic inflicting on his own bike on purpose.

Chalo

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Perhaps unnecessary hassle for you, but some do find a benefit. It's worth it to me to go through the trouble of initial installation even if it's really difficult. Seldom would I be attending the wiring after the installation. There's no reason for me to make it so convenient at the expense not liking the looks of the bike as much. I respect that looks don't matter as much to other people. We all have different priorities justified for our own right. I understand rarely will you be looking down at the bike while riding; and when you're not riding, chances are you won't be standing there staring at it. Don't get me wrong. Performance is important to. I guess I just appreciate appearances more than most. I'd rather take the effort to manage the wires nicely if I could than to sacrifice not having it just so that I could repair them during those few rare occasions when I need to. I understand that's not everyone's situation, but it's mine.

No need to change this into a discussion to a topic of whether we should be doing it or not. The real question and initial intention for the thread is to explore "how" it's done.

I'm not that concerned about rust b/c I won't be riding in the rain, the bike won't be out for long periods of time and I store it inside.

FYI:-There is products made specifically for coating the inside of frame tubes to prevent
them from rust and the elements...

Custom choppers have wires run inside the frame tubes, definitely gives the bike
a cleaner look. Personally i hate the look of wires and sleeve any that
have to be visible. jm2cw

KiM

kmxtornado said:

It's worth it to me to go through the trouble of initial installation even if it's really difficult. Seldom would I be attending the wiring after the installation. There's no reason for me to make it so convenient at the expense not liking the looks of the bike as much. I respect that looks don't matter as much to other people.

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There is a certain beauty to things that work right and are well set up for their purpose-- "form follows function" is one time-honored way of putting this. To put it another way, internal cable routing is the retractable headlights of the bicycle world.

No need to change this into a discussion to a topic of whether we should be doing it or not. The real question and initial intention for the thread is to explore "how" it's done.

Click to expand...

Well, the title of the thread is "Why I don't hide my wires in the bike frame", so I'll assert that I'm even more on topic than someone discussing how it's done.

Chalo

AussieJester said:

FYI:-There is products made specifically for coating the inside of frame tubes to prevent
them from rust and the elements...

Custom choppers have wires run inside the frame tubes, definitely gives the bike
a cleaner look. Personally i hate the look of wires and sleeve any that
have to be visible. jm2cw

KiM

Click to expand...

How did you do yours?

No need to change this into a discussion to a topic of whether we should be doing it or not. The real question and initial intention for the thread is to explore "how" it's done.

Click to expand...

Well, the title of the thread is "Why I don't hide my wires in the bike frame", so I'll assert that I'm even more on topic than someone discussing how it's done.

Chalo[/quote]

Well said, however the intention was still about me wanting to hide the wires into the frame. Good to know that it takes effort and there's much to be concerned about. Thanks for your input.

So I did the rewiring last night since my rear rack arrived in the mail. I'm pretty impressed. Lining up the wires turns out to be pretty good. Doesn't look too horrible actually. More pics on my blog, but here's a close-up shot of how it's routed on the rack to the battery.


Not too shabby eh? I hid the wires along the rack's extension rods off the boss so it's virtually invisible. Not noticeable at all - at least to me. I can't wait to ride this thing!

Here's a zoomed in photo of the very front of the rack where the wires come up from the chain stay to the rack itself and ultimately to the battery.