Will America go to war with Iran?

[Drunkskunk]

Will America go to war with Iran? Time frame is the next 4 years.

This is ebike related. Iran supplies oil to China, and much of the world's oil supply is controled from that region. If there is a war, oil prices will likely sky rocket, and china may not be willing to trade with the western world, meaning Lipo batteries are scarce

[maydaverave]

Well china gets its oil from iran, we want irans oil, the only way we can go to war with iran is with a loan from china. So no we can't its just a threat probably for bargaining power with china.

[spinningmagnets]

The straights of Hormuz is a chokepoint for oil coming out of the middle east. One coast is lined with western allies, and the other coast is Iran. Iran is physically 3 times bigger than Iraq.



Iran has three old Soviet Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines. Of course when they run the diesels, it gives their position away, but when they are running on their battery the Kilo class remains a short-range threat to be feared. It has the capability to lay mines, and that is why they were purchased.

The Spanish American War (1898) started when the US ship the Maine was sunk in Cuba. It happened under "dubious circumstances".

During the Viet-Nam conflict, the event that caused President Johnson to escalate sending US ground troops into Viet-Nam was the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident,

the USS Maddox, on an intelligence mission along North Vietnam's coast, allegedly fired upon and damaged several torpedo boats that had been stalking it in the Gulf of Tonkin.[144] A second attack was reported two days later on the USS Turner Joy and Maddox in the same area. The circumstances of the attack were murky. Lyndon Johnson commented to Undersecretary of State George Ball that "those sailors out there may have been shooting at flying fish

If an Iranian intelligence gathering ship was off the coast of New York, and was being followed (stalked) by US patrol boats, how would the US public feel about the Iranians firing on the US patrol boats?

[Joseph C.]

You do realise that Iran's oil is being boycotted as it is?

[wineboyrider]

You do realise that Iran's oil is being boycotted as it is?

You do realize it's oil and China and India want and need it. LMAO.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-24/china-hires-at-least-two-supertankers-for-iranian-oil-data-show.html

I didn't answer the survey, because the questions are loaded?
How many times did you beat your wife today Drunkskunk? Once, twice or multiple?

[wineboyrider]

If we go to war with Iran it could be the end of our Empire as we know it. Massive inflation already exacerbated by multiple quantitative easing, bubble collapses and high unemployment will lead to the US be devolved to the level of the former U.S.S.R or perhaps worse?
We can win a war against Iran eventually don't get me wrong, but the price will be high very high.

[Joseph C.]

You do realise that Iran's oil is being boycotted as it is?

You do realize it's oil and China and India want and need it. LMAO.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-24/china-hires-at-least-two-supertankers-for-iranian-oil-data-show.html

I didn't answer the survey, because the questions are loaded?
How many times did you beat your wife today Drunkskunk? Once, twice or multiple?

I suspected there might be offers from other parties but the point is that oil prices will be rising for Occident nations because of the boycott as it is. I suppose from China's perspective they are in a great bargaining position. Iran is having trouble finding buyers so China can effectively set their own price.

As for going to war with Iran, I agree with you.That would be madness but that has never stopped countless nations before.

I was thinking about Ahmadinejad a couple of weeks ago and I suspect that most of his diatribes are complete posturing. I imagine that he is quite moderate in comparison to some of his colleagues. Of course, on the flip side his track record is appalling and he is clearly a narcissist with his hatred of the elderly and women.

The real question is would Iran be better or worse off if he was deposed because of outside influence. I think they would be worse off as the public would probably vote in a more extreme leader.

[spinningmagnets]

There are some radicals in Iran who believe in the "second coming" of the 12th Imam. Some of them believe if they start WW-3, then the 12th Imam will return and finally institute Islam as the world religion.

I don't fear sane people with access to significant weapons, but religion-based radicals may act in unexpected ways. In the coming year, don't expect Iran to act in a way that makes sense...

If there is a WW-3, I believe the US will survive (Japan and Germany are still around), but...I can only imagine how painful and difficult it might be.

[Joseph C.]

There are some radicals in Iran who believe in the "second coming" of the 12th Imam. Some of them believe if they start WW-3, then the 12th Imam will return and finally institute Islam as the world religion.

I don't fear sane people with access to significant weapons, but religion-based radicals may act in unexpected ways. In the coming year, don't expect Iran to act in a way that makes sense...

If there is a WW-3, I believe the US will survive (Japan and Germany are still around), but...I can only imagine how painful and difficult it might be.

Hopefully, that won't happen in any of our lifetimes. Let some other generation deal with it.

We're still a very young civilisation. Its only ten thousand years (500 to 600 generations since we discovered agriculture and domesticated animals. We have a long way to go before all of us catch up and our social/political culture matches our technological achievements.

If it happens it happens - but it would be best if we had as little to do with these nations as possible until they are ready to join us.

[wineboyrider]

There are some radicals in Iran who believe in the "second coming" of the 12th Imam. Some of them believe if they start WW-3, then the 12th Imam will return and finally institute Islam as the world religion.

I don't fear sane people with access to significant weapons, but religion-based radicals may act in unexpected ways. In the coming year, don't expect Iran to act in a way that makes sense...

If there is a WW-3, I believe the US will survive (Japan and Germany are still around), but...I can only imagine how painful and difficult it might be.

The similarities between the "rapture" Bible thumping radicals and the strange Shiite cult of imam are stunning. The Shia believe however that Jesus will return to the Earth and declare that there is only one God and his name is Allah, etc.
Our government is sane? The Iranians haven't started a war with anyone and the Iran Iraq war was fomented by western interests. Israel has the most nuclear weapons in the middle east lest we forget. And our intervention in the middle east and particularly Iran is appalling at best.
I don't think American's have any idea how bad war can be as the last time we "really" had war on our soil was the Civil War.

[Lessss]

The similarities between the "rapture" Bible thumping radicals and the strange Shiite cult of imam are stunning.

FACEPALM

It's the same #$%#$%$% abraham god!

[wineboyrider]

The real reason why we shouldn't go to war with Iran is this: Sunburn anti-ship missiles. Remember too that the Spanish Armada was destroyed relishing Spain to a minor power for centuries and still. How could we replace Aircraft carriers if we are broke?
http://www.rense.com/general59/theSunburniransawesome.htm

[spinningmagnets]

Its been 30 years since I was on a submarine, but like most guys I like to read about weapons development when articles are published. I hadn't heard about the sunburn anti-ship missile before. It sounds very similar to the US Harpoon missile, which skims the water to avoid radar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(missile)

During the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvinas_War, a British ship with modern NATO defenses was sunk by a similar Argentine Exocet missile purchased from France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet

Another weapon of concern is the Russian-made Shkval torpedo ("Squall" [storm]). Oddly, it is an underwater rocket, rather than having a propellor. If a near-silent electric submarine can get close enough to an adversary, the speed of the underwater rocket makes evasive maneuvers and counter-measures less effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

Nuclear weapons have been tested underwater, and if there is fear of an Iranian submarine on the prowl after a western ship is sunk (even if sunk by a mine), a small nuke "could" be used to clear mines and Iranian submarines in the narrow Straight of Hormuz. One example of a small tactical nuke is the Subroc, which is a missile that is launched from a torpedo tube. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUBROC

In an unusual move, the US has now deployed TWO aircraft carriers to the Straights...
http://rt.com/news/us-strait-hormuz-gulf-409/

[Philistine]

So how many Killstreaks would Iran have to get to unleash a Sunburn? What about a Subroc? Would Juggernaut stop either of them?

[wineboyrider]

Its been 30 years since I was on a submarine, but like most guys I like to read about weapons development when articles are published. I hadn't heard about the sunburn anti-ship missile before. It sounds very similar to the US Harpoon missile, which skims the water to avoid radar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(missile)

During the 1982 Falklands/Malvinas War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malvinas_War, a British ship with modern NATO defenses was sunk by a similar Argentine Exocet missile purchased from France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exocet

Another weapon of concern is the Russian-made Shkval torpedo ("Squall" [storm]). Oddly, it is an underwater rocket, rather than having a propellor. If a near-silent electric submarine can get close enough to an adversary, the speed of the underwater rocket makes evasive maneuvers and counter-measures less effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval

Nuclear weapons have been tested underwater, and if there is fear of an Iranian submarine on the prowl after a western ship is sunk (even if sunk by a mine), a small nuke "could" be used to clear mines and Iranian submarines in the narrow Straight of Hormuz. One example of a small tactical nuke is the Subroc, which is a missile that is launched from a torpedo tube. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUBROC

In an unusual move, the US has now deployed TWO aircraft carriers to the Straights...
http://rt.com/news/us-strait-hormuz-gulf-409/

The sunburn missile and Iran probably has thousands of them utilizes high speed and a new approach to the ship to evade the counter measures. It is deadly it will change the game of Naval warfare as we know it. I think this is the only reason we haven't started something with Iran yet. The Iranians have even developed small gun ships with this missile on it. 130 mile range deadly accuracy, hundreds of small boats = stay the hell out. A nuclear strike even a tactical one ( I used to guard tactical nukes for the Army) would invite a counterstrike by Pakistan or Russia. They only way to stop the mines and the anti ship missile attacks is ground troops. Like I said it's not that the US can't do it, but do we have the economic and political where with all to do it. I say no once hundreds of sailors are killed the US will either commit to total war or pull out in disgrace, much like the Spanish Armada.

[Kingfish]

Missile Defense: In my day we had those little R2D2 units that shot depleted Uranium projectiles at incoming missiles; something like 2000 rounds a minute. That’s pretty old and dated. I can only imagine what the US Fleet has in store for today.

Carrier Defense: Understand though that the there is a picket of destroyers that surround the carrier with very sophisticated equipment. Then who’s to say we haven’t laid down our own covert network. There are so many ways we can see over the horizon and down into the deep… and it ain’t that deep in that shallow puddle called the Gulf.

Using Nukes: I seriously doubt we shall ever see tactical nukes used, unless someone unleashes one on us first. Our conventional firepower through excellent chemistry can create optimum coordinated shock value nearly as you like.

Submarines: The US possess what’s known as a hypersonic torpedo with excellent standoff range. We’re talking kinetic kill power, and no need for a warhead. Then there’s the acoustical defenses, focused sonics that will deafen a submarine crew, if not incapacitate – and this without firing an explosive.

Tactics: The phalanx of arsenal we could lob, the tons per second of ordinance is in itself mind-boggling, and mind you – the powers that be in the region have been planning for this a very long time. Iran’s little pals are probably going to be Russia and China and Pakistan… maybe a few others. But don’t look for China or Russia to overtly step into the fray. And I see Iraq playing neutral, not allowing the US to base operations from their soil.

This End Game is coming. Maybe not this year, maybe in five years… but unless the mullahs are forced to shave their beards and the Revolutionary Guard lays down like lambs, I’d say stock up on your petrol and canned goods.

The one saving grace that may still play out is Iran’s populace taking the notion and getting control over the fanatical leadership. I don’t have a problem hoping for that outcome, but I sure want a big stick ready if it doesn’t.

Moving to Idaho, KF

[wineboyrider]

Missile Defense: In my day we had those little R2D2 units that shot depleted Uranium projectiles at incoming missiles; something like 2000 rounds a minute. That’s pretty old and dated. I can only imagine what the US Fleet has in store for today.

Carrier Defense: Understand though that the there is a picket of destroyers that surround the carrier with very sophisticated equipment. Then who’s to say we haven’t laid down our own covert network. There are so many ways we can see over the horizon and down into the deep… and it ain’t that deep in that shallow puddle called the Gulf.

Using Nukes: I seriously doubt we shall ever see tactical nukes used, unless someone unleashes one on us first. Our conventional firepower through excellent chemistry can create optimum coordinated shock value nearly as you like.

Submarines: The US possess what’s known as a hypersonic torpedo with excellent standoff range. We’re talking kinetic kill power, and no need for a warhead. Then there’s the acoustical defenses, focused sonics that will deafen a submarine crew, if not incapacitate – and this without firing an explosive.

Tactics: The phalanx of arsenal we could lob, the tons per second of ordinance is in itself mind-boggling, and mind you – the powers that be in the region have been planning for this a very long time. Iran’s little pals are probably going to be Russia and China and Pakistan… maybe a few others. But don’t look for China or Russia to overtly step into the fray. And I see Iraq playing neutral, not allowing the US to base operations from their soil.

This End Game is coming. Maybe not this year, maybe in five years… but unless the mullahs are forced to shave their beards and the Revolutionary Guard lays down like lambs, I’d say stock up on your petrol and canned goods.

The one saving grace that may still play out is Iran’s populace taking the notion and getting control over the fanatical leadership. I don’t have a problem hoping for that outcome, but I sure want a big stick ready if it doesn’t.

Moving to Idaho, KF

The one thing about the Sunburn missile that makes it so deadly ( and I think deflates the aircraft carrier idea) is that it knows how to seek out the aircraft carrier first. In other words it won't hit the destroyers it goes for the mother ship. Of course, this is all speculation, but the Russians make some bad ass missiles these days. The Argentine Excocet missiles took out 2 British ships and they only had 5 excocet missiles. The Iranians have hundreds of sunburn missiles and they are far more deadlier and accurate. If this were the UFC and noone would die I would say "Let's fight!"
I don't have a problem with the Big Stick either. The problem is we been swinging the Big Stick for a while now ,but sooner or later you might meet someone with a big stick killer. We don't need to be messing around in Iran when we have our own energy in our back yard. We are in the death throes of an Empire and not the rising of the Republic.

[Philistine]

If this were the UFC and noone would die I would say "Let's fight!"

You are channeling Will ferrell Wineboy ,

Imagine Wil Ferrell screaming that at a co-star?

That is the funniest sentence I have read in a very, very long time (I am literally still clutching my sides at its genius).

Think about it (imagine if Dos Santos and Overeem couldn't die? How would it end?).

Next time one of my mates frocks with me, that is what I am going to scream at him whilst sporting the Jimmy Eyes.

If this were the UFC and noone would die I would say "Let's fight!"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and then you put the sweet peach on the end:

The problem is we been swinging the Big Stick for a while now ,but sooner or later you might meet someone with a big stick killer. We don't need to be messing around in Iran when we have our own energy in our back yard. We are in the death throes of an Empire and not the rising of the Republic.

OK..... I am leaving planet earth now..... Imagine that sung by Chuck D?

[jonescg]

The US will do well to not start another war with anyone. Iran is not some tin-pot shit-tip like Libya or even Iraq. They are a technologically advanced nation, are well armed and well trained. Granted, they don't have many friends in the region.

Iran has produced fantastic scientists and mathematicians, philosophers and astronomers, for about 2000 years. I have several Persian friends, and depending on what sort of a class they came from, are either university educated, proud people who are happy to travel the world, or university-educated and eternally grateful people who were glad to flee Amadmaninadinnersuit.

And Persian women are HOT!

[wineboyrider]

The US will do well to not start another war with anyone. Iran is not some tin-pot shit-tip like Libya or even Iraq. They are a technologically advanced nation, are well armed and well trained. Granted, they don't have many friends in the region.

Iran has produced fantastic scientists and mathematicians, philosophers and astronomers, for about 2000 years. I have several Persian friends, and depending on what sort of a class they came from, are either university educated, proud people who are happy to travel the world, or university-educated and eternally grateful people who were glad to flee Amadmaninadinnersuit.

And Persian women are HOT!

Persian women are some of the most beautiful women ever! I have an Iranian friend who grows wine grapes, of course Shiraz wine grapes. LOL.
If we would trade more with Iran the stupid religious radicals in charge there would become less and less significant. My friend who visits his family has to drive through Turkey in order to go back... I am no peace nic by any stretch, but the US shouldn't be butting in to other peoples business.

[Kingfish]

<snip> I am no peace nic by any stretch, but the US shouldn't be butting in to other peoples business.

Generally I agree, however there are two problems:

• We are partly responsible for backing an unpopular king (overthrown) and that in turn has led to the present situation, and
• The current leadership promotes and funds Hamas and Hezbollah.

We are stuck with a wicked step-child of our failed greedy policies.

From my first year in the Navy, I remember Iranian officers training at Great Lakes, Ill. at the same time I was attending my A-School; they were like any other visiting foreign individuals... pleasant. A year later, and we have crisis. I'm not a warmonger, but how long do we have to put up with fanaticals clearly bent on weaponizing and destabilizing the region?

Personally, I’d love to see the Iranian people rise up give the boot to the twisted beards, but I don’t see that happening in time before we’re into a new phase of terrorism.
~KF

[wineboyrider]

<snip> I am no peace nic by any stretch, but the US shouldn't be butting in to other peoples business.

Generally I agree, however there are two problems:

• We are partly responsible for backing an unpopular king (overthrown) and that in turn has led to the present situation, and
• The current leadership promotes and funds Hamas and Hezbollah.

We are stuck with a wicked step-child of our failed greedy policies.

From my first year in the Navy, I remember Iranian officers training at Great Lakes, Ill. at the same time I was attending my A-School; they were like any other visiting foreign individuals... pleasant. A year later, and we have crisis. I'm not a warmonger, but how long do we have to put up with fanaticals clearly bent on weaponizing and destabilizing the region?

Personally, I’d love to see the Iranian people rise up give the boot to the twisted beards, but I don’t see that happening in time before we’re into a new phase of terrorism.
~KF

Partially right.
How do we know the CIA isn't doing another false flag?

[RTLSHIP]

I think part of the concern is that there could be another revolution and nuclear know-how could end up in wrong hands.
I seriously doubt the current Iranian President would do anything dastardly.

[wineboyrider]

I would be more worried about another American revolution at this point and the technology ending up in the wrong hands.LOL.
North Korea has nukes...so what? M.A.D.

[wineboyrider]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rRy1cD2EU&feature=related[/youtube]