TylerDurden
100 GW
Let's see what members think.
Feel free to add comments on your position, or the position of others.
Feel free to add comments on your position, or the position of others.
Does ES need more/less moderation?
- Thread starter TylerDurden
- Start date
EMF
100 kW
The problem is not so much moderation or the amount needed...it's the lack of rules and how to deal with folks that disrupt the forums, so that they cannot complain that they were not treated fairly. The mods were doing about all they could with the present system. But they needed help since the forum got bigger and they thought that a rule set would make modding easier. This is what is being discussed by the admins and mods right now according to their many postings on this issue.
This poll is actually a moot point as the folks volunteering have already decided that something needs to be done, so things don't get worse. The tail, apparently and thankfully, does not wag the dog around here. It is obvious from reading the postings from the staff, that they want the bickering/badgering stopped. I guess it should be up to them since they are doing all the work.
This poll is actually a moot point as the folks volunteering have already decided that something needs to be done, so things don't get worse. The tail, apparently and thankfully, does not wag the dog around here. It is obvious from reading the postings from the staff, that they want the bickering/badgering stopped. I guess it should be up to them since they are doing all the work.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Utter rubbish.EMF said:
The mods had all authority to do whatever they thought was prudent, and they did it.
As for many postings? MB hasn't posted on the issue, fechter hardly at all... same with lowell.
As for volunteers, just because Buzzz and Len are tired of the flaming of idiots, doesn't make them a majority of opinion.
Maybe if you cited evidence to support your opinions you would have more credibility.
Me, lenk, Fechter, etc are PM'ing some guidelines and rules to be posted soon... hold on tight.
deardancer3
10 kW
I am a previous moderator over at one of the yahoo groups.
For some reason, I had not been reading the posts that ended up being locked/moderated. Guess the topics did not tickle my fancy for some un-known reason
Anyway, after reviewing some of the "problem" posts, Would like to change my vote from "no change" to some changes.
Don't know if you have the appropriate guidelines, but, In trying to keep the 'signal to noise' ratio high, but still encouraging dissent as long as not demeaning or higghy distasteful, I think some of the recent flames should have been shut down quite a bit earlier.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/74786 shows a short thread with a technical debate and how it can go with different views and no name calling. go to almost any other yahoo power assist question to see how they should NOT go.
my two watts worth
For some reason, I had not been reading the posts that ended up being locked/moderated. Guess the topics did not tickle my fancy for some un-known reason
Anyway, after reviewing some of the "problem" posts, Would like to change my vote from "no change" to some changes.
Don't know if you have the appropriate guidelines, but, In trying to keep the 'signal to noise' ratio high, but still encouraging dissent as long as not demeaning or higghy distasteful, I think some of the recent flames should have been shut down quite a bit earlier.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/message/74786 shows a short thread with a technical debate and how it can go with different views and no name calling. go to almost any other yahoo power assist question to see how they should NOT go.
my two watts worth
TylerDurden
100 GW
Go for it...deardancer3 said:
I changed the setup so respondents can change their votes.
I want to know why Y thoughtfully engaged in a pseudo-democratic process to become a mod whereas someone with less than 150 posts under his belt gets coronated into the position, is he some sort of noblese?
This kind of coronation goes on regularly in Canadian politics to circumvent the democratic process where a previously totally unknown politician gets parachuted into a seat in parliament without so much as having to undergo scrutiny by the public for several years b4 facing his first election.
I realize ES isn't a democracy but Lenk being made a mod leaves that same bad taste in that it feeds right into this sore point.
He don't have enuf of a track record to evaluate whether he suffers from some degree of Napoleon complex, the situation isn't so desperate for moderation that you need to hire just any warm body that expresses an interest.
This kind of coronation goes on regularly in Canadian politics to circumvent the democratic process where a previously totally unknown politician gets parachuted into a seat in parliament without so much as having to undergo scrutiny by the public for several years b4 facing his first election.
I realize ES isn't a democracy but Lenk being made a mod leaves that same bad taste in that it feeds right into this sore point.
He don't have enuf of a track record to evaluate whether he suffers from some degree of Napoleon complex, the situation isn't so desperate for moderation that you need to hire just any warm body that expresses an interest.
EMF
100 kW
Who cares as long as they do a good job? I can't speak for Ypedal, but I have a feeling he was not sure he wanted the position or rather to just stay "one of the guys" and was sending out for feedback before he jumped in the water. On your other point, to me, post count is a poor criteria for selecting management for a forum.
I guess it's up to the admins and also the mods who should be asked to join their team. I am sure they have good reasons and I am confident the people they pick will do as great of a job as the present staff has done.
Maybe they felt that these guys had a good personality for the job or maybe also they have some expertise, or maybe even they know these guys best from some other forum. Perhaps someone was an admin on another PHP forum they visit and the person knows the control panel-which is a pain in the ass to learn. There's all sorts of reasons for selecting a mod.
At least they are getting some well deserved help.
We should try the best we can to make their job easy and not run around drumming up conspiracy theories, or trying to second guess every move the staff makes- why did they do this why did they do that bla bla bla. I have a feeling Lenk is going to prove out to be much more than just a "warm body". I really liked his comment in another thread:
"....what we are slowly tracking down in thread after thread on this subject is the difference between subjective versus objective standards defining the context from which we all draw our Endless Sphere identities. Until the rules and guidelines are clearly defined by the administrators (which will be forthcoming), all of these attempts at explaining "how things are on the Sphere" are merely projections of our own opinions.....
len"
Also, the "democratic process" for additional forum staff selections is one that is held by the existing staff members to vote for new mods, not the whole community. At least this is how I am familiar with the process. You will never satisfy everyone. If you can get the staff to agree- halleluja.
I guess it's up to the admins and also the mods who should be asked to join their team. I am sure they have good reasons and I am confident the people they pick will do as great of a job as the present staff has done.
Maybe they felt that these guys had a good personality for the job or maybe also they have some expertise, or maybe even they know these guys best from some other forum. Perhaps someone was an admin on another PHP forum they visit and the person knows the control panel-which is a pain in the ass to learn. There's all sorts of reasons for selecting a mod.
At least they are getting some well deserved help.
We should try the best we can to make their job easy and not run around drumming up conspiracy theories, or trying to second guess every move the staff makes- why did they do this why did they do that bla bla bla. I have a feeling Lenk is going to prove out to be much more than just a "warm body". I really liked his comment in another thread:
"....what we are slowly tracking down in thread after thread on this subject is the difference between subjective versus objective standards defining the context from which we all draw our Endless Sphere identities. Until the rules and guidelines are clearly defined by the administrators (which will be forthcoming), all of these attempts at explaining "how things are on the Sphere" are merely projections of our own opinions.....
len"
Also, the "democratic process" for additional forum staff selections is one that is held by the existing staff members to vote for new mods, not the whole community. At least this is how I am familiar with the process. You will never satisfy everyone. If you can get the staff to agree- halleluja.
jerryt
100 W
I joined here about the time when the moderators were struggling with the Hawaiian guy. Frankly, I believe things have been pretty quiet since then and the only major problem is one or two people throwing topics off course and pumping their own agenda.
I am primarily a learner rather than a contributor and get frustrated searching down a point only to have to sift thru the off-topic diatribe and/or flames.
I voted "slightly more moderation" meaning (to me) we need additional moderators who have time and fortitude to keep the rhetoric toned down and possibly keep subjects on topic.
As for rules, a section set aside for religion and politics and strictly enforced would eliminate a lot of friction. The Bike Forum does this requiring additional logon and waiver to read and post.
I am primarily a learner rather than a contributor and get frustrated searching down a point only to have to sift thru the off-topic diatribe and/or flames.
I voted "slightly more moderation" meaning (to me) we need additional moderators who have time and fortitude to keep the rhetoric toned down and possibly keep subjects on topic.
As for rules, a section set aside for religion and politics and strictly enforced would eliminate a lot of friction. The Bike Forum does this requiring additional logon and waiver to read and post.
EMF said:
The absolute number isn't the criteria, it's the lack of a track record of how he responds under various situations that's missing that serves as an audition or resumé of his suitability.
I hope the first thing he cracks down on is those indviduals that are unable to express themselves without extensive cursing.
EMF
100 kW
If they make it a rule he will and also people will know this is against the rules and will try to abide by them. Unsubstatiated slander or childish empty accusations type posts will probably be frowned upon as well. I see that one has been locked already.Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:EMF said:
The absolute number isn't the criteria, it's the lack of a track record of how he responds under various situations that's missing that serves as an audition or resumé of his suitability.
I hope the first thing he cracks down on is those indviduals that are unable to express themselves without extensive cursing.
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:EMF said:
The absolute number isn't the criteria, it's the lack of a track record of how he responds under various situations that's missing that serves as an audition or resumé of his suitability.
I hope the first thing he cracks down on is those indviduals that are unable to express themselves without extensive cursing.
Don't worry TUZ, moderator privliges can be deleted with the click of a mouse.
Several times in the past I have hinted that the forum could use more moderation help and I got very few responses. Len happened to volunteer his time and help with some of the organization. A person's past track record may not be a good indicator of how they will behave as a moderator also.
The rules should be fairly straightforward to intrerpret. If someone breaks the rules, the consequences are spelled out more or less.
The last thing I want here is the kind of heavy handed moderation that drove me away from the other place. As Tyler's survey points out, it appears the majority of voting members would prefer slightly more moderation, up from the past level of near zero.
The moderator's primary responsibility is to protect us from spam and help the newbies. If things get serious, actions like banning would still be handled by the site admins (knightmb and myself). Both knightmb and myself have been very busy lately and I think it's a good idea to have a little more backup.
While I don't think we want additional moderators at this time, there are many things the forum could use help with, like creating more articles for the Basics section or possibly copying the best posts over to the wiki http://amaranthine.endless-sphere.com/ to create a useful resource for people at all levels.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
I voted for leaving it the same. If more moderaters are needed because of lack of time on the current moderators part, thats fine, but there needs to be a certian amount of Anarchy in the creative process. The Mods have done a great job so far keeping it from getting out of hand, but i think part of that is augmented by people knowing that if they say something off the wall, they are going to get called on it by the rest of us.
Lenk42602
10 kW
Fellas,
Last year, It appears as though I first joined the 'Sphere just two days after the "other site" seemed to have devolved to the point that precpitated their move to a different site address, banned members,etc.
While vaguely aware of the story behind what happened, I did not really pay much attention. As this topic has continued, I have gone back to the "other site" and poured through the post history and it's members reaction to the moderation climate and how things got bad...real bad. I have a pretty good idea of how to conduct myself in order to avoid repeating the same disruption to this site that was caused by the other loose cannon moderators. Plus, as indicated, if i fail my "interview", I am just a click away from termination....
My interest is in serving the forum and the members to make this site as informative, welcoming, and community - oriented as possible. Much has been given to me, and I would like to give back.
peace,
Len
Last year, It appears as though I first joined the 'Sphere just two days after the "other site" seemed to have devolved to the point that precpitated their move to a different site address, banned members,etc.
While vaguely aware of the story behind what happened, I did not really pay much attention. As this topic has continued, I have gone back to the "other site" and poured through the post history and it's members reaction to the moderation climate and how things got bad...real bad. I have a pretty good idea of how to conduct myself in order to avoid repeating the same disruption to this site that was caused by the other loose cannon moderators. Plus, as indicated, if i fail my "interview", I am just a click away from termination....
My interest is in serving the forum and the members to make this site as informative, welcoming, and community - oriented as possible. Much has been given to me, and I would like to give back.
peace,
Len
TylerDurden
100 GW
Man, that's lucid: "anarchy" is a great term for rejection of complacency.
More to the point: conflict is inevitable when ideas are challenged... particularly when those ideas are promoted from a personal agenda. While some members are conflict-averse, many others realize there is much to be learned from the emotional responses of people engaged in conflict. The authenticity of emotional response is harder to mask. It also can serve to illuminate the distinction between hucksters like Harmon and headcases like Safe.
@Len:
I gave your nose a thwack publicly, since your actions as a mod are public. You are correct to a degree that I can be harsh, but I also do it in full public view so that I can be challenged by any & all that care to. I feel that's fair.
@Buzzz:
Minor detail... I think it's less confusing to reply, than to edit a member's post.
I am confident that Len and Buzzz will try to do their best. My point in originating this poll/topic is to get more information on the level of moderation members feel is appropriate. After all... "moderation" explicitly requires a consideration of a range of action; not absence of, nor total control of activity.
Regards,
More to the point: conflict is inevitable when ideas are challenged... particularly when those ideas are promoted from a personal agenda. While some members are conflict-averse, many others realize there is much to be learned from the emotional responses of people engaged in conflict. The authenticity of emotional response is harder to mask. It also can serve to illuminate the distinction between hucksters like Harmon and headcases like Safe.
@Len:
I gave your nose a thwack publicly, since your actions as a mod are public. You are correct to a degree that I can be harsh, but I also do it in full public view so that I can be challenged by any & all that care to. I feel that's fair.
@Buzzz:
Minor detail... I think it's less confusing to reply, than to edit a member's post.
I am confident that Len and Buzzz will try to do their best. My point in originating this poll/topic is to get more information on the level of moderation members feel is appropriate. After all... "moderation" explicitly requires a consideration of a range of action; not absence of, nor total control of activity.
Regards,
Lenk42602
10 kW
@ Tyler:
No worries. But remain vigilant for the dual nature of all things...
http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/butter.htm
regards,
len
No worries. But remain vigilant for the dual nature of all things...
http://www.the-philosopher.co.uk/butter.htm
regards,
len
fechter said:
True of any new hire, but at least it's not a complete shot in the dark.
I believe that altho I refer to it as stream of consciousness.Drunkskunk said:
It's impossible to be creative if you're continually self editing, looking over your shoulder worrying about violating some rule instead of concentrating on the subject.
which happened only after a blue-streak cut a wide swath across it due to interference from a rouge electro-magnetic field.EMF said:I see that one has been locked already.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Rogue, or polarized 180* out of phase?Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:which happened only after a blue-streak cut a wide swath across it due to interference from a rouge electro-magnetic field.
EMF
100 kW
Uh huhToorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:which happened only after a blue-streak cut a wide swath across it due to interference from a rouge electro-magnetic field.EMF said:I see that one has been locked already.
AussieJester
1 TW
Im not sure post count has much to do with being appointed a moderator. A person with 2 posts may have oodles more experience than a die hard with a 1000 posts but simply hasnt been on the forum. I was made a moderator on OCM after only a couple of posts due to my experience. I think this site is rather well looked after as most here are adults and behave as such. Just my two cents ... carry on ;-P
