What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

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What battery chemistry do you use?

SLA
4
4%
NiCad
0
No votes
NiMH
0
No votes
LiON Cobalt (18650 Cells)
9
9%
LiON Polymer (HobbyKing LiPo)
47
45%
LiFePO4
29
28%
LiMN
7
7%
NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt)
7
7%
Hybrid (LiON Cobalt + LiON Polymer)
0
No votes
other
1
1%
 
Total votes: 104

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What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Mar 09, 2014 11:23 am

Thought this poll needed a refresher, now that it's 2014.
What technology are you guys using now?
Last edited by teslanv on Mar 09, 2014 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by amberwolf » Mar 09, 2014 9:00 pm

Had to pick "other" cuz you don't have NMC in the list, and it only allows two options and I use more than that. (NMC, RC LiPo/LiCo, LiFePO4, NiMH, SLA, etc).

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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Mar 09, 2014 9:45 pm

Well, I added NMC for you amberwolf, but it erased all the previous results.

Guess I'll keep the list as it is now. Please vote again, if you don't mind...

And if you use more than two types, how about you just list the two you use the most.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 10, 2014 12:35 am

Any of those choices done right can be excellent for a given application.

Even lead if budget would otherwise prevent another electric vehicle from use.

The main key to any of them is managing it right and using robust weather proofed cell interconnects and a fuse somewhere.

Fuses are such a pleasant alternative to harness fires. Worth the $5.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by TheBeastie » Mar 10, 2014 1:26 am

teslanv wrote:Well, I added NMC for you amberwolf, but it erased all the previous results.

Guess I'll keep the list as it is now. Please vote again, if you don't mind...

And if you use more than two types, how about you just list the two you use the most.
I remember there was a guy on ES forums who insisted that if he rode fast enough his wind turbine mounted on his bike would deliver more power out then in and keep him going in perpetual motion, you now must add "Wind Turbine power pack", reset results and start again :wink:
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Mar 10, 2014 1:30 am

Only if the blades of the wind turbine are coated in flexible solar cells. :)
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by biohazardman » Mar 10, 2014 1:48 am

Started with 10ah of the low C rate Foxpower LifePo4. I expect they were 1.5-2C at best. They werqed fine at about 20A draw but had problems when I upped the voltage and amperage with a new controller. Then I found the a123 26650 cells which seriously outperformed the other batts with only 4.6ah. Four years and over 10K miles on the a123 packs now and with the exception of the few cells I lost when I really abused them, to the extreme, they are still running strong.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 23, 2014 4:51 am

biohazardman wrote:Started with 10ah of the low C rate Foxpower LifePo4. I expect they were 1.5-2C at best. They werqed fine at about 20A draw but had problems when I upped the voltage and amperage with a new controller. Then I found the a123 26650 cells which seriously outperformed the other batts with only 4.6ah. Four years and over 10K miles on the a123 packs now and with the exception of the few cells I lost when I really abused them, to the extreme, they are still running strong.
this is one of the battery types i never really had a battery pack built out of, because they were alot of dough. But 10k miles on a 2P pack !! that's impressive

I've used HK polymer lico for a few years, but I'm slowly drifting towards 18650's just because i can neglect them a little more. its easier as of now, yet slightly heavier.

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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by friendly1uk » Mar 23, 2014 4:57 am

It's all about hk lipo for me. But what sort peeps are using would be of interest too. Particularly, how many hk users opt for the hardcase packs.
bmsbattery sent me broken and incorrect stuff, and won't even talk to me about it.

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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Mar 23, 2014 7:32 am

I've got the hardcase packs. Love them because they are the least expensive by watt-hour and lots of ways to build a larger pack with them. Also easy to charge with an inexpensive 6S RC charger.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by Ykick » Mar 23, 2014 12:17 pm

I revamped my RC Lipo bike pack(s) last Fall and utilized the bargain price and sweet form factor of 4S hardcase bricks.

'used 12S-15S (6S/5S soft bricks) for nearly 4 years but last Fall siezed the opportunity to move into 16S territory. Glad I did, 4S bricks make extremely good use of that configuration.

Using simple custom series/parallel JST adapter harness I now have the ability to monitor/log paralleled cell groups via 2qty CellLog 8S.

16S2P 10Ah label capacity weighs about 10lbs including CellLogs and wiring. Nice solid pack when held together with plastic shipping wrap.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by TheBeastie » Mar 23, 2014 11:43 pm

A bit ordinary but it seems to be a bit of a trend now that we have noobs who skip lifep04 and Li-ion and just jump in first go into HK lipo, it's more cheap then it was 2 years ago even if just barely.
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Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Beware of dodgy 18650 cells! youtu.be/eOshOXcSkDA
Consider PAS as your only throttle http://goo.gl/m17J9j
CO2 is core to Photosynthesis https://youtu.be/t5mvDONB6FI
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Apr 02, 2014 11:56 pm

TheBeastie wrote:A bit ordinary but it seems to be a bit of a trend now that we have noobs who skip lifep04 and Li-ion and just jump in first go into HK lipo, it's more cheap then it was 2 years ago even if just barely.
I'm one of those noobs. HK LiPo is awesome and budget friendly.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by thetimp » Apr 17, 2014 11:44 am

Can someone explain what chemistry exactly LiPo is? I understand a battery has a cathode, electrolyte, and anode, but for the other Li-based options, the cathode material is specified (cobalt, LiFePO4, NMC, Mn). Does LiPo not use one of these cathode materials?

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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Apr 17, 2014 11:59 am

thetimp wrote:Can someone explain what chemistry exactly LiPo is? I understand a battery has a cathode, electrolyte, and anode, but for the other Li-based options, the cathode material is specified (cobalt, LiFePO4, NMC, Mn). Does LiPo not use one of these cathode materials?
HK LiPo = LiCoO2 in a polymer form and foil pouch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by cal3thousand » Apr 17, 2014 4:27 pm

I started out with LiFePO4 and moved to HK LiPo (RC LiPo or LiCo). They have been pretty good to me for the last couple years, but there is a lot of work required.

I am starting to see the benefits of LiCo 18650 cells and will likely switch to those. That will still allow me to use my charging equipment while giving adequate power and capacity for most of my needs. I think I would still keep my old LiPo for using on my fun weekend bikes.
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by Tench » Apr 17, 2014 5:51 pm

I have been very happy with a ping lifepo4 pack and also with 6s8ah HK bricks but the pack I have just built is 20x HK 4s hard cases, 20s4p, yet to be used, at £200/kw I had to try them!
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by teslanv » Jul 13, 2014 7:27 pm

Bump. Hoping for some more survey responses...
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Re: What battery chemistry do you use? (Ver. 3)

Post by LipoRider » Nov 11, 2014 2:50 am

Since I built my first e-bike over 3 years ago, its been 12s LIPO all the way for me . I also hobby with electric RC helicopters/multicopters and RC planes so using my stash of LIPOs and infrastructure of chargers, connectors, tools, and wiring for e-bikes was a natural extension of my electric RC hobby. I use the eBay special 1000W direct-drive rear wheel kit that gives plenty of torque and hits a eye tearing top speed of 28mph.
 
I use pairs of 6s cells for 12s (50.4V) of power. The Anderson Powerpoles ability to create series connections on-the-fly is like magic. My bikes have a parallel "Y" cable with 6 leads so I can hook up as much or as little power as I need for my trip. I've easily biked around with a tiny 12s3000 for neighborhood store runs but have room for the equivalent 12s45000mAh (or ~2160Wh).
 
My 1000W brushless motor pulls at most 20A. Getting 20A of current draw actually requires full throttle and going up hill a bit. Still, this "small" 20A of current is paltry for the 25C+ discharge capability LIPOs (versus 2C for the 18650 Lithium ion). In fact, the LIPOs barely get warm and give gobs of power all the way through to the end. Hill climbing power with my rear wheel direct drive motors is awe inspiring -- that's when LIPOs really pull through for me as direct drive causes the highest current draw versus geared motors. But there's no hill in San Francisco I couldn't get up on. I've read reviews praising mid-drive geared e-bikes versus direct motor drives saying how much better they are for San Francisco hills -- I can tell they weren't comparing against a pure LIPO powered direct drive bike. :) The 1000W rear motor on my bike may grind away on a steep hill but the power keeps pouring out of the LIPO packs non-stop!
 
I recently bought four of the Multistar 10C 6s10000 LIPO packs. These are now available in the HobbyKing USA warehouse:
 
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... ouse_.html
 
At $98.11 for 6s10000mah, it works out to $0.39/Wh. Of course, you need a decent quality balance charger. I have a 2000W $360 LIPO balance iCharger 4010Duo along with my old trusty 1000W FMA PL8 charger but these chargers also get used for other stuff particularly my RC hobby.
 
These Multistar 6s10000 packs are only rated to 10C output -- which, on RC terms, is small. However their 10Ah size makes up for somewhat but still overkill for the 20A requirement.
 
That all said, LIPOs are kinda overkill for a 20A e-bike application. As an experiment, I've purchased a set of UltraFire 7200mAh 26650 Lithium ion cells. I'm going to build me a pair of 6s1p 7200mAh flat packs (with balance leads) and do some test rides with an equivalent 12s7200 of capacity when two of these packs are put in series. If they work to my satisfaction, I may build more of them. I want to have at least 12s14400 as these Lithium-ion packs will be working harder with their puny 2C output. Their output rating is small but they are half the weight of LIPOs for the same capacity so its worth one experiment at least. I might be able to do a "hybrid" approach and have a mix of 6s LIPO and 6s Lithium-ion in parallel. Gotta be careful of pack equalization as the Lithium ions only do 1C charge rate versus the typical 5C LIPO charge rate.

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