E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Rix]

Rix
I have done about 360 miles so far, I changed the front tire after about 50 miles. I am using a 2.70" Gazza North Shore on the front, It has hardly warn. The Duro on the rear has had it now.
With your 17" rim and tyre, increasing the mass you will loose some HP, because it takes more power to spin up the weight.
On a 4x4 rally car we changed the street type tyres to the rally tires when we were dyno testing, and there was a 50 hp power loss due to the increased mass in the heavy duty tyres.
If you buy a 20" bicycle wheel the rim diameter is 16.5", If you get a 3" tyre you will end up at 22.5" but without the mass.

With your new motor, I would recommend testing it before you mod the shunt in your controller. I think that you should be careful trying to increase the current with the stock battery, as it has a maximum discharge rate, also the BMS will have a maximum switching ability.
If you push the battery to far you may kill it. Lifepo4 are normally around 5c (90A Max) If you move to Lipos you can get 60c , so pulling 100A is nothing.

Hyena
That is good to know, I suspected that the motor was much hotter inside, because they always heat soak when you stop riding. It is probably a good idea to go steady on the last half mile so the magnets don't get cooked when you stop. How do you get on with dust and dirt getting in through the holes. I have been thinking about how to cool the motor, oil, water or air. They all have there issues.
Cruzxia

Cruzxia,
I know what you mean with HP scavaging losses from rotational mass. But with the hub motor, I am betting that it won't be as significant. I am thinking it will be the equivelant of putting a heavier flywheel on a motorcycle. Revs a little slower, but once up to speed, maintains momentum which should off set the increased rolling resistance and weight a little from the "huge by mountain bike standards" knobbies. I also think some of the scavaging losses from the heavier tire will be offset by the smaller wheel and the mechanical leverage I gain. (78.55" to 72.27" per rotation or approximately 7.5% gain in mechanical advantage). I will not be getting too crazy with the Rshunt mod. I will be pushing between 6 and 6.5 KW max. Figure my CA will be set somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 to 80 amps. Of course, all of this is speculation, wont know until I get the wheel on the bike and start messing around with it. And in the event that my idea with the motorcycle rim and tire suck, I can always go back to a 24" tire (20.5" rim). The more I read and research venting hub motors, the more impressed I am. Referencing a PM I sent to Hyena, he has never ever had a problem with foriegn debris getting into his vented hubs. Judging by Hyena's vids, he's fast and not easy on his bike so that says alot. Also via PM, Kepler hasn't had any problems with pushing 10+ kw through is non vented 5405 either riding smartly. Either way you go, these guys are the go to guys involving anything electrical and the advise we get from them is definately solid. One thing I know for sure, excessive heat is a huge killer for electric motors. For that reason, I will probably be venting the 5404 with 8 14mm holes on each side. On the disk side, I will drill them closer to the center of the hub and out towards the edges on freewheel side. How are the forks working out? Besides the improvement in small bump compliance, are they significantly better on the fast stuff? BTW, I got my flange nuts in from the UK. Just like you said, they are narrower than the stock nuts and the flange portions are not threaded. What a waste of 45 USD. Looks like the caslte nuts and drilling cotter pin holes int he axle is my next move.

Rix

[Cowardlyduck]

Rix is correct, I have a switch in line that comes out of the side cover, simple switch on and off between power settings and you set the low power to whatever you want....obviously the factory cannot advise you on this for legal reasons.

Thanks Rix and Toby,one more thing anything i should look out for when placing a switch between the competition wire,so i will not get electrocuted.
That was my plan aswell Toby just put a stealth switch on the outside somewhere.

You guy's should check out my button solution for power limiting. http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p/push-button-switches/7027112/
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23996&start=945#p518679


It's the exact perfect size to sit in the end of the handle bar. You just need to route the wires through the handle bar or, like I did, cut a small notch to sit the wires in so the switch doesn't cut them when pressed in.

Hyena, glad to hear you and the Fighter are OK mate. Makes me glad I'm wearing this now.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=72485


Cheers

[Cursed]

That is one nice stealth switch indeed Cowardly will check into it.
So no chance i can electrocute myself attaching it?

I will be using my pitbike protective gear ;p ,including cross helmet...just a little worried i will draw to much attention with that helmet.

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/blnc/1 ... 6b_23.jpeg

[Cowardlyduck]

That is one nice stealth switch indeed Cowardly will check into it.
So no chance i can electrocute myself attaching it?

I will be using my pitbike protective gear ;p ,including cross helmet...just a little worried i will draw to much attention with that helmet.

http://imgc.classistatic.com/cps/blnc/1 ... 6b_23.jpeg

Nah you won't/can't electrocute yourself with those wires.

That gear looks nice. Just chuck a T-shirt over the top and none will notice.

Cheers

[Rix]

Rix is correct, I have a switch in line that comes out of the side cover, simple switch on and off between power settings and you set the low power to whatever you want....obviously the factory cannot advise you on this for legal reasons.

Thanks Rix and Toby,one more thing anything i should look out for when placing a switch between the competition wire,so i will not get electrocuted.
That was my plan aswell Toby just put a stealth switch on the outside somewhere.

Cursed, thats a clean set up there. No way of accidently hitting the switch (maybe tipover) and you don't have to remove anything to get to it.

[Hyena]

anything i should look out for when placing a switch between the competition wire,so i will not get electrocuted.

Yeah there's no risk of electrocution - the CA does carry the full pack voltage if you're poking around the board but it's only ~80v DC. Sticking your tongue on it will give you some hurry up though
With the controller turned off (which you definitely want to do before doing any soldering or playing with wiring) there should be no voltage going to it anyway.

[Cowardlyduck]

Had my second stack on the Fighter yesterday...nothing major...just annoying.
E-Bikes and Dogs don't mix.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42276#p618040

Cheers

[QMS]

Had my second stack on the Fighter yesterday...nothing major...just annoying.
E-Bikes and Dogs don't mix.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42276#p618040

Cheers

Hey C D, i think you wife is right re the high frequency noise Dogs go mental around my place particularly when it is quiet late at night, and seems to be only the bigger type dogs too. Back in the forum someone else also stated the same thing after a strap late at night

[Rix]

Here is the 100x70/17 maxxis motorcycle tire compared to the Arrow Primebite 24 x2.75 I have on the bomber. For ref., On my scale, the Duro 24x3" razorback weighed 3.4 pounds (1.55kg). The Maxxis on the left weighs 5.7 (2.59kg). Anyways, I am waiting on the 5404 to arrive and then its go time. Cant wait to try it out.

Rix

[veloman]

I just saw and talked to two Bomber riders on east 6th in Austin. Did a u turn when I saw them, had to get up to 34mph to catch them. (they were just cruising).

Good looking bikes. After looking at the clyte 54xx, my Mac looked tiny....

[Kepler]

I just saw and talked to two Bomber riders on east 6th in Austin.

Must have been a bit of shock to two other high powered ebikes let alone Bombers Always good to see one in the flesh. Should have asked the dude for a swap ride. What color's were they.

[veloman]

Must have been a bit of shock to two other high powered ebikes let alone Bombers Always good to see one in the flesh. Should have asked the dude for a swap ride. What color's were they.

They were both all black. Had some massive 3" slicks on them. I practically never see ebikes in my city, the only ways I had previously seen were low power mass produced type. I was heading back to work (from a lunch swim) and didn't have much time, but yeah it'd definitely be cool try one out sometime.


It's about time some real ebikes show up here. We have the perfect climate and crappy traffic to make them ideal. They said they haven't had any issues with police yet.

[cruzxia]

Rix

That Arrow Primbite tyre looks good, where did you buy it, as I cant find in info on them. The maxis will be a tough tyre by bicycle standards, all the extra weight must be in the number of ply, so punctures should never occur.

[Cowardlyduck]

Finished version, painted and installed.


TESTED
I tested it with the nuts at 30 ft lb by accelerating to 60kmh then applying the regen. I did this about 60 times. at the end of testing I rechecked the torque on the nuts, and they were still at 30 ft lb.
Re-torqued to 45 after testing.

On the brake side I was getting about 1mm of axle slide, caused when braking hard over bumps. I filed some vertical grooves in the chain adjuster plate, to give it some friction with the swing arm, it never moved again. (The powder coated surface was to slick on both swing arm and chain adjuster)

The great part is that I don’t have to even think about the rear axle when riding, I know it won’t come loose, and I don’t need to carry a spanner anymore.

Cruzxia

Hey Cruzxia how is this setup holding up for you now?

My torque plates keep sliding backwards, and my nuts keep getting loose on me. Any chance I could get you to make one of these up for me also?

Cheers

[Hyena]

My torque plates keep sliding backwards, and my nuts keep getting loose on me

I've had this happen too, the first sign that something was wrong was my brake started rubbing at 60km/hr. I thought it was just mud or something in there causing the noise. When I got off I found it'd worked its way completely loose and the only thing really holding the motor to the swing arm was the tension of the chain
In this case loose nuts resulted in a tight sphincter

[Cowardlyduck]

In this case loose nuts resulted in a tight sphincter

Lol...I just knew someone would catch that one.

Problem for me is, I'm running with a derailleur, so if mine gets that loose, I will loose my back wheel entirely.

I'm thinking even some kind of welded on tabs at the back of the swingarm drop out would also help.

Shim2a.png (142.9 KiB) Viewed 325 times

That way, even if the nuts get loose, at least you'll get a bit of warning before it completely lets go.

Cheers

[Hyena]

If you're not fussed with losing the tensioner, cut off the bolt to have just the torque arm itself then drill a hole straight the the end of the swingarm/dropout (basically as you've drawn in red), whack a bolt through there with a nut on the end and you've essentially got a pinch drop out. It's not actually pinching on the axle in the traditional sense but on the torque arm itself, preventing any movement. This would solve the earlier shimming issues posted too. Even if your nuts come lose (there's still milage in the joke )the motor can't go anywhere. Win

[remf]

CD & Hyena, I've had the same on the Fighter but not on the Bomber. I use regen on both but think it's the culprit on the Fighter. Maybe time to try those Philidas nuts? They're difficult to find especially anyone who ships small quantities from the UK though I think this company ships overseas with a hefty surcharge.

http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/nav ... egoryID=12

[Cowardlyduck]

CD & Hyena, I've had the same on the Fighter but not on the Bomber. I use regen on both but think it's the culprit on the Fighter. Maybe time to try those Philidas nuts? They're difficult to find especially anyone who ships small quantities from the UK though I think this company ships overseas with a hefty surcharge.

http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/nav ... egoryID=12

Yeah, they look good, but which one exactly do you think?

Maybe this one?
http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code/navigation.asp?fType=Fasteners&MainCategoryID=12&ProductCategoryID=303


Is the Fighter axel 12mm?

Cheers

[remf]

Well I make it 1/2" UNC but I know others have stated M12

I think maybe the flange nuts might be the ones? Or was it the turrets? Think it might be the M12 turret.

P479A.jpg (3.71 KiB) Viewed 315 times

[cruzxia]

CD

I have no issues with my axle since adding the torque block. I have had a few requests to make the torque block. I think I can make a narrower simplifyed version to suit the Bomber, which would be faster and cheaper to make. I don't have a Fighter, so I don't have the dimensions to make a version for the fighter.

What you all need to understand, the nuts are not the problem. The problem is that the axle is rotating.
The torque block stops any axle rotation, so the nuts do not undo.

I had to make new nuts for my Bomber because the threads were damaged by the nylock nut, when I exceeded 45 ft lb in an attempt to stop them undoing. (before I added the torque block)

Adding wide nuts (with more threads) will substantially reduce the chance of axle thread damage.

I have held off making torque blocks, because I know John is working on a solution.

Cruzxia

[Cowardlyduck]

I have held off making torque blocks, because I know John is working on a solution.
Cruzxia

Ah....now that, I did not know.

In that case, I will just wait. I'm still under warranty at this point so no point adding something that could void it.

Cheers

[cruzxia]

The torque block, requires no modifications to the bike in any way, It is a bolt on item.

[Cowardlyduck]

The torque block, requires no modifications to the bike in any way, It is a bolt on item.

Ok...fair enough. Ill wait and see what John comes up with. Might be similar anyway.

Cheers

[Rix]

CD,
This apparently is a frustrating issue for both the bombers and the fighters. The simple solution is not to use the Regen. I was shimming the axel blocks with the washer and that did slow down the loosening of the axel nuts, but didn't stop it completely. What I think is going on is even though the tolerances are tight between the axel block, swingarm fork, and cut out the swingarm fork with the hub axel, there is still a little play. You can see this when you mount the wheel onto the swingarm, put the axel block (torque arms) on and snug the axel nuts just to the touch. Rotating the wheel back and forth, you can see a little bit of play. After the nuts are torqued and you get on the gas, the hub motor axel rotates to the rear until it stops because the axelblocks (torque arms) and swingarm fork cutouts all stop the axel from rotating further. The play movement were are talking about here is miniscule but exists none the less. As long as the regen isn't used, the axel play doesn't change because it rotated to the rear and play has been removed going that direction. The rear brake wont change the axle position either because the rear disk is mounted to the hub itself and has no effect on axel torque loads when breaking. When the regen is engaged, the axle is rotated forward until it stops because the axelblocks (torque arms) and swingarm fork cutouts all stop the axel from rotating further that direction as well thus removing the play in that direction. After regen, getting on the gas causes the axel to rotate to rear and this cycle keeps repeating itself. Each time it does, as your sitting on the bike, the axel nut on your right side loosens under regen and the axel nut on the left side loosens from accelerating. After the nuts have loosened up enough, the torque arm/axleblock will start sliding back and forth in the swingarm cutouts causing other issues such as break caliper alignment. Cruzxia torque arm solves this problem. Pinch bolt design and leverage contact to the inside of the swingarm removed all of the play. I don't know what solution Stealth will come up with, all I know is it will involve isolating the hub motor axel from any moveable play when mounted in the swingarm.

Cruzxia,
I bought Arrow primebite 24x2.75 off of ebay for 22USD each, not including shipping. They are a lowprofile harder terrain DH tire. A review of them can be found on MTBR.com Also, here is the link from Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Tir ... Prime+Bite. One of the sites is selling two tires for 35 USD. If you buy these tires, the duro tubes will not work in them. These tires are a true 24" diameter tire that mounts on a 20.5 rim unlike the 24x3" Duro razorbacks which actual diameter is 25.6". With these tires you need set your CA to 1940mm for acurate speed measuring. The CA for the Duros is set at 2055. The arrows weight about 1100grams VS the Duro 1300grams. BTW reverse math shows at 2055, the tire's OD in inches is 26.8 and not 26.6 which is what I measured the duros at. This explains why my radar speed runs showed a 2MPH slower differnce than my CA showed. Also, 2.4 or 2.5 inch tubes work great in these tires. The Arrow Primebite in my photograph next to the maxxis has 206 miles on it 50/50 Offroad Onroad at 45 PSI. These tires are rated for up to 60 PSI and have about 50% wear on the rear and 20% up front.