cx450 project

Well I am sitting here with nothing to do and have read every post twice So I decided to start my official build thread.

First I would like to thank everyone that posts here for the tons and tons of experience and help they have give.

I love the look of the cx450 and the price was right so I got one and started dreaming of the bike I want to end up with. Shortly after getting the bike from ebay (in horrible condition) I decided that it needed a minor battery upgrade to make it even a little fun. So I found the makita 18v 3a batteries and some mounts that would move the project forward and purchased the bits but never touched it for about 9 months. I really wanted to improve the suspension before I took it anywhere. I have started the search for improvements .

Battery dock - I was really disappointed with the weight of the dock but they really did simplify getting to 36v.
There is enough room for 8 of them but I started with 4 and will probably move to lipo instead. It also eliminates any guess work on charging.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3915
First get rid of anything that is orange and get the batteries installed. I thought for sure it would kill the controller or motor at 36v but it runs fine, motor barely warm, 22mph top speed and 6 mile range. Too noisy though

I have not decided that I am going to keep these forks but I am trying to keep the geometry about the same as it was and slightly slacken the head tube angle.
Rock Shox DHO 130mm.

Magura Hugin Rear Suspension Bicycle Air Shock 38/165mm.


The original forks only have about 4 inches of travel and the rear shock is only 5.5inch in length. So the new forks have about 5 inches of travel but the new rear shock is an inch longer which will change the head tube angle in the wrong direction. I will try to solve this with pre-load on the rear. So I imagine the final suspension will have 5 inches of travel in front and rear with out changing the bike height too much and hopefully slacking the head tube angle ever so slightly. A fork with 180mm of travel might be a good candidate but it will change the head tube angle a lot. The head tube is over 7" in length so you would want a fork with at least 8" of steer tube.

I haven't decided on a final battery configuration but I think I can fit 12s2p in the original plastic case to neaten things up. Right now I am thinking Zippy lipo 6s1p x 4 to give 48v at 10000mah. Along with that I haven't decided on the final motor, either an astro 3220 or something close. A single stage reduction and finally deciding on right or left drive are also things to be decided.

The bike is really too small for someone 5'10" but it is still very fun, A yz125 seat and raising the seat height a couple inches will help.

I have showed it around in it's current state and people dig it which totally surprises me It is so low quality! My front forks and rear shock should be here mid next week. I hope to complete the entire project by the end of the summer.

Four of the 22.2v 5ah Rc packs is all that thing needs. Mounted in the stock battery location. Wonder how much noise it would make with those 2s2p..

I don't think it would be any quieter but when I switch to single reduction it will be much more quiet. The zippy 6s1p 5kma batteries are now on back order .

I meant it'd be louder. But depending on how you look at it, noise could be a good thing..

I noticed they were on b/o too. There's 8s chargers, so where do I get 8s 5ah bats at?

Man, the whole idea for ME and I'm just one person, is that the ebike concept is about stealth: quiet.

That ICE cars make varooom noises like wanna be Harleys, is one thing. Some people LOVE that.
I have always loved dead quiet.

High-whizzing RC motors, and clickey-clacky rear hub freewheels coasting along, they spoil the sounds of nature.
Freewheels, with there now-universal ratchcet and cog of 1750, common to 99.9 percent of manual bikes today, are a huge turn off to me, except as a reminder of the Machine Age, when even the crankshaft was patented (somehow), and Watt had to work around the concept. One of his monstrous engines ran every day, all day for over a century. Gears, ratchets, pawls, packing glands, lard oil.

I want to coast and hear nothing but the slight tread noise of slicks on asphalt, or hear the birds in the trees,
or the approaching SUVs.

Stealth is for ME (only); si-lence! is where it's at. Gotta be near dead silent, but deadly as a taco fart
to Lycras.

8)

Notice a more belligererant tone has crept into my posts of late?
Chalk it up to declining physical health since the header accident.
I'm frustrated and facing changes.
I no longer have a needed outlet for my aggression, no biking for the next two weeks at least.

A fag? Agresssive? Yes. Put me or any man into a corner against Death and watch the bout.
I will lose but come out fighting to the end.

I digress. I do that,
you know. And nails, too. Manicures, anyone?

Two bucks.

The Manly Fag, no manicures today. I'm booked up with cream facials.
Reido


_________________
Back to OW, all out of order; never to be equaled, he is without anyone to compare.
Read his plays, his novels. Remember EVERY age is of itself. Oscar knew that fact better than you can imagine today.
He knew, very well, everything that mattered in human relations.
His language and more of print, deigned vital by the press who paid him, would fade into quaintness of a sort...in time..of a sort....but never, never will his work be obscure as, say Wm. Shakespeare.

Oscar was not a homosexual. He was the most observant, intelligent social critic of his or any age.
He was Professor Marvel in advance of the tornado.

Let's see...poor little girl... I hope she makes it home OK. Oscar did not.

Oscar Wilde is said to have belaboured an entire morning over placement, or not, of a comma.
Puncts are hell, and I am not talking about India. I mean, punjabs. It's a word/metaphor commonality I have with my great hero object (only because he's dead, or I'd have "relations" with him for sure) "uncle" Oscar. We were born precisely one century apart, to the letter.

PS: he married and he had two children. He was disowned by his family after the scandal blew.
Were you? Blown, I mean.


__________________

I just HAVE to add: do you know that I've read 100 years of every column inch of The Scientific American? I have seen Tho. Edison lay a strange, tin-foil covered cylinder in front of the Editor, to his astonishment;
"how do you do?"

I read all old books of technical nature. Nothing is new but for the transistor, and even its precursors were being employed by scientists as diodes in the 1870s. Lee deForest was an empirical fraud. Edison was a super-duper industriuos inventor, thief-adaptor and business fraud. Marconi and Tesla: not American, were, by contrast, gentlemen of the Old World's first order.

The vacuum tube of old TV sets, mass produced, cheap as possible to last 3 months of warranty, often failed, but Western Electric telephone repeater tubes such as the 411 lasted hundreds of thousands of hours.

Old tech rocks and would run the world for centuries if we let things be;
the oldest steam engine in the world still operates as new. Youtube search.
It was in active, 24/7 service for over one hundred years.

_______

one hundred edits and corrections in one hour. The paragraphs are all out of logical order becqause some are additions and I don't give a pease on a knife care if spill what I won't eat.
Please PM any further-spotted red herrings, particularly if they smell funny.

Thank you,
Reid Welcher

--------------------

edit addendum: I see that I have the thing out of logical order. This is to be expected,
because I am an idiot. Note too that I write for people who may never have heard of Oscar Wilde,
who died in jail in 1900, or just released. Famous last words, alleged? Look them up. Google is your hilarious friend. I write for adolescents. I am one, still, myself. frock all. We all have heard "bad words".
The ONLY bad words are words that cut the reader to his or her heart, such as "you are an idiot", etc.

Love for the young especially,
old and dying reid.
---
so the hell with typos. they will die, too, when my posts become auto-pruned by the software.
it's all just like real life! I laugh a lot at myself; orr slef, depending on how my dyslexia is acting this day.

Goodbye, cruel shoes (steve martin owed) world,
r, waiting for a front fork, with no life at all otherwise than to buy a quarter pint
for the head rush excitement of watching Rustoleum oil paint dry (old joke worth renewing)

:lol:

Reid what was that all about? I have read many of your posts and your obviously very intelligent and that last one well I can't understand. I on the other hand am blond and have my blond moments you know like I solder with a 750watt iron!! ! a couple hours later I calm down and realize it is only 75watts. Thankfully I am just blond for moments and (not) permanently.

As far as noise goes I agree some noise will be good but I want a quiet bike as well. Can you even run that 450 motor (if it even is) at 48 volts? I couldn't find any 8s on HS. When I get the forks and shock installed I will post pictures and give some impressions...

I think Reedo's (looong) post was brought on by the more of the same that spurred you to post this thread in the first place Joe. Reid, I'm with you on the silence thing, but I was dealt a cheap my1018 by chance. I'll work with the noise, and take the little bit of good it brings with the bad. Hey, people can hear me approaching.. I do agree that amps and speakers emulating ICE noise is ridiculous, but some al naturale EV noise I can deal with. Even geared motors are magnitudinally quieter than mini ICEs.

I think the noise is kinda cool for now I ripped over to the store and the noise is so different it is like I am from another planet. 22mph with out pedaling on a bike is so different. I can say for certain I am glad I started with such low performance. Rarely do you need to stop a pedal only bike from above 20mph. The experience is welcome. The other thing about the noise is I know these are the sounds of the future and I wish they were more common.

Bikeraider OMG man can you get more batteries on that thing? Seriously though I wish I could get the range and power you have but I think I will keep the tiny motorcycle style as much as I can. I have read your build and love what you have done. I know you said you would start with a larger platform for your next build and I totally agree. A 125cc or such could be the base of a future build for me as well. I think the derbi supermotard would make an awesome electric build although it has been done I know it could be built for less and better.

I got the forks and they are too short to correct for the height that the new shock adds so I am back looking for new OLD used forks... Right now the handling is screwey since the shock has raised the rear an inch and I need longer forks.

I have ordered a 3210 and single reduction from Matt. Still planning on 48v of zippy 6s 30c lipo. I know I can't but will anyway put a 3220 on it when I need more speed

Reed, I enjoy your posts, even if I don't understand some of them I have followed your build thread and really enjoyed the detail you went into.

Impatiently waiting parts...

Hey Bikeraider,

Yeah that is the trouble I am finding, you can't afford the batteries and when you can they won't fit correctly onto any platform to make a decent 30-50 mile ride. Then it is almost a motorcycle. I think it is doable but it is going to be mostly custom like you have done and grayborg. I might go with something like that in the future but for now I can just keep adding parts at the speed I can afford. Will be watching for your next build bikeraider

I finally have an update got the 2nd pair of old forks from ebay and they rock. The headtube angle is perfect with a 7" front and a 165mm rear. I can ride over wimpy stuff without even knowing . Handling is way better. Just for folks who want to copy, you should look for at least a 9.5" headtube for this frame. I might have to find one just in case this one (9") is not long enough. Right now the cap bolt is not long enough and only one of the 2 clamp bolts is really attached to the head tube.

You can see where I drilled (without a drill press) to move the shock down 1", it would not fit in the other hole without bumping the frame.


For all the waiting and wasted cash I am really happy with the setup and my parts from Matt should be here in about 3 weeks. I will get the single reduction astro 3210 motor running with the existing batteries until I can decide on how many I can fit into the frame then decide on either lipo or a123. The a123 seem like such a much better deal for the long run but will take more fiddling.

Still need to find a seat upgrade and I could not find any decent brake handles with switches although I found them on the forum before I thought it would be easy to re-find but I couldn't. I would like both left and right with switches but maybe I will just build my own. You can see I left the rear brake off for now since I am going to replace it with a switch lever and the handle is a pita to remove so it is off as well. Brakes need to shut off the motor. I am trying to build a safe bike as well as a fun bike.

Other things I want to do is add front and rear lights as well as turn signals. Probably copy you there bikeraider

Hope all you folks builds are coming along nicely!!!

Cool Bikeraider! I will check into it.

Hey Reid, Sorry for the typo above "reed" I do not think of you as part of a saxophone or a generic botanical...

Hi Joe,

bike is looking nice 8)
By the way i have 2 x xlyte brake levers with switches just laying around at home,i think
i will have a look later when i get home - their not the coolest levers tbh but they have the built in switches and are brand new - if you want them and pay for postage you can have them? - I'm calling this generousity between ebikers the "reid" effect after the generous Mr Welch

Cheers,

D

Hey Deeciano,

I could not find any pictures of the levers. I don't want to take you up on it if I would not be happy with them. As you know anything is an upgrade from what it came with though With shipping and all. I really want all aluminum that have at least a little style to them.

This looks nice for when I get into the lighting and turn signals.
http://monkeybike.net/acatalog/info_641.html

Hi Joe,

nice unit.
Well i will dig them out for you and post some pics, if i remember correctly the clamps are black and the levers are silver - think mc levers.
I'll try to get some pics up tonight, may be that if you dont like them you could change the levers only?

Cheers,


D

Thanks Deecanio,

Got a drill press today now I can drill straight holes

Hi Joe,

sorry for the delay in posting, i have looked high and low for those buggers with no joy thus far
Don't give up yet tho as i have a feeling that i took them to steves so i will find out if they are still there from Bob.
If so im going there maybe on Saturday so i'll grab some pics then, apologies.


D

No worries, Finish your bike so we can hear about how awesome it is

Look what Matt made me





I have black motor #10 for my EX450!! wow that came out of the blue... I suppose it has a name
Looking forward to get this baby mounted. Waiting on the A123 batteries
Joe

Hi Joe,

very nice unit, im quite bummed i didn't wait and get the all black look
coupled with some sweet 123's this should be a blinder - more pics more pics!!!


D

Since the mounting spot will need a pair of angle pieces I need to go find a metal shop in Boulder, CO. Once I have those I can machine them to fit where the old motor was. I will take some pix this weekend but I am not sure if I will be working on this or the grinhill copy. I think I will build this It is easier than the grinhill copy

Joe

How did you make out with this project? I have a cx450 I want to do one of matts systems on http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11761

Right now I am waiting for a piece to convert to right side drive, going to try a SA 3spd. I thought for sure I was just going to do the left hand drive but it was turning out to be not as advantageous as doing right and being able to put 3 speeds on it. And the battery pack is not built yet so I am still waiting for that too. I am really bummed about my progress but I have really been waiting on other things.

I don't think it will ever be complete but I hope to have it far enough along that it is worthwhile. It is a great bike as it sits though, I added a scooter seat and have a rack bag where a gas tank would normally be. I recently purchased a wr250r for those longer trips and thought I'd lose interest in the electric but I rode the electric to work and damn it is still cool. I am so tired of waiting for parts though. I still love the style and I would build this again but I would have been done by now since I would make different choices.

I went with a123 batteries and the deal should be great but I could have had lipo by now. I wanted safer tech for my first high power battery pack. I should have picked the correct drive side "right" when I ordered my motor from Matt. I have the adapter plate for a SA 3spd. I have a current limiter. I still don't have a lighting system, I want turn signals as well as a horn. I want to claim it as a moped and have the DMV approve it as one. Mostly since the electric bike is really taking off new stuff has come up that have all been game changers, at least for what I want from my build.

Here is a new photo. I will post more the next time I make some progress... As it sits it is really a kick ass electric. Super comfy, 22mph top speed is actually fine. The only complaint is my wimpy 6 Amp Hours. I want 30AH at 48volts so I can ride all day