Xyster's X5

[xyster]

What is de model and size of that back tire Xter?

de model is de Maxxis Hookworm
http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/ ... asp?id=160
24" x 2.5"

Stuffed inside it is a super-thick Salsa DH tube, and a panaracer kevlar belt.

[RatoN]

Just got me one, de 26''

[xyster]

Just got me one, de 26''

All right! Post some pics or a review when you can

[xyster]

Pics of my new pack arrangement.

[fechter]

Where's the duct tape?

I'll find some somewhere....

Looks great.

[tailwind]

Found it. Its on the shelf in the last picture.

I knew it would not be too far away.
Will Xyster give in to the temptation.

Greg

[deecanio]

nooooooo!!!!!, don't do it Xyster
leave the tape alone, bike looks much tidier nice work.


cheers,

D

[xyster]

You guys just think you know me soooo well....

you do

I'm setting aside outward displays of duct tape addiction for the sake of more Endless-Sphere accepted aesthetics. But I still reserve the right to apply duct tape to my heart's content on my own time and inside the privacy of my battery boxes.

[Eric G]

Nice evolution with the bike Xyster. I like this setup and think it looks much better.
Have you noticed any difference with braking since your main battery pack is up higher and in a more forward position with only a front disc brake.

Bravo! Nice Work!

Eric

[safe]

You're definitely on the right track with moving weight forward. It's funny that you would make an "issue" about my new project bikes weight when you're running a 25 lb hub motor on the back. Your hub motor weighs about the same as my whole frame and fork combined. So I guess it's more about how you use the weight that you have. Having a big motor has advantages in that you can produce more power more easily, but it comes with a heavy weight disadvantage.

I'm thinking in the "perfect world" that one day someone will build a carbon fiber electric bike frame and and use a brushless motor that weighs 5 lbs (like Fechter) that produces obscene amounts of power (and probably air cooling) and package the whole thing inside a set of fairings and simply blow everyone's mind with the potential. (that Aprilia bike could be the ticket if they would built it for an American motor size... 750 watt... rather than the lame 250 watts that they use in Europe)

On the Tour De France today they reported the average speed coming into the end of the race as being around 35-40 mph. So that's pretty much what we are competing against. The electric bike should give roughly the same or better performance to an ordinary person that an expert professional cyclist can achieve. Those racers go fast... and they ride for something like 100 miles on some sections and climb 10,000 feet all in a day. That's a tough goal to achieve... (for all our designs)

[xyster]

Nice evolution with the bike Xyster. I like this setup and think it looks much better.
Have you noticed any difference with braking since your main battery pack is up higher and in a more forward position with only a front disc brake.

Bravo! Nice Work!

Eric

Thanks, Eric. I have both a front disk and a front rim brake. I haven't noticed any difference with braking, but the bike certainly handles differently. I'm still getting used to the handling. It seems to track the turns much better, which is good, but with the higher COG the bike is also a bit more tipsy, which is not good. When moving the bike by hand, I can now pick up the whole bike by grabbing the tube just in front of the seat. So maneuvering it while dismounted is much easier than before.

[safe]

It seems to track the turns much better, which is good, but with the higher COG the bike is also a bit more tipsy, which is not good.

At slow speeds things will seem worse (0-10 mph) but at higher speeds things will seem better. (10-60 mph)

[xyster]

You're definitely on the right track with moving weight forward.

Yes, the total weight is very evenly balanced now.

It's funny that you would make an "issue" about my new project bikes weight when you're running a 25 lb hub motor on the back.

Sensitive, sensitive ...I didn't make an issue about your new bike's weight, I just asked how much it was going to weigh since the tubes *look* very hefty but I can't reach through the screen to pick one up.

Your hub motor weighs about the same as my whole frame and fork combined. So I guess it's more about how you use the weight that you have. Having a big motor has advantages in that you can produce more power more easily, but it comes with a heavy weight disadvantage.

True...always trade-offs...

I'm thinking in the "perfect world" that one day someone will build a carbon fiber electric bike frame and and use a brushless motor that weighs 5 lbs (like Fechter)

Wow, I had no idea Fechter weighs only 5 lbs! That's terribly anorexic. He should see a doctor.
I'd prefer this motor to weigh less, obviously. I'm interested to hear more about the 12lb Crystalyte Canon. The smaller brushless motors like Fechter's BMC are great in and of themselves, but I appreciate the space-saving approach of a hubmotor. There's a ton of room in a bicycle hub and not much room on the frame.

On the Tour De France today they reported the average speed coming into the end of the race as being around 35-40 mph. So that's pretty much what we are competing against. The electric bike should give roughly the same or better performance to an ordinary person that an expert professional cyclist can achieve. Those racers go fast... and they ride for something like 100 miles on some sections and climb 10,000 feet all in a day. That's a tough goal to achieve... (for all our designs)

I watch bike racing occasionally. Maintaining 600 watts for hours, those athletes are amazing. But that's not nearly enough power to pedal up steep hills at the speeds of some of our bikes. At 2,500 watts, I'm carrying around the equivalent power of four Lance Armstrong's. Of course without gearing, that advantage is cut down to maybe two Lance's -- still pretty good!

[newbie electric rider]

Hey Xyster, I was wondering if you put your batteries in a cage on the forks, like up front, i wonder how that would handle. Would that create dampening? Also up there, you could reshape it a bit, to provide a better entry into the wind. like cover it with a fairing? Just wondering , not suggesting Perhaps all that wieght up there would create too much stress on the frame/ forks.

[xyster]

Hey Xyster, I was wondering if you put your batteries in a cage on the forks, like up front, i wonder how that would handle. Would that create dampening?

Below the suspension or above it? I'd like to keep the batteries sprung. The main problem I have with the suspension is the short, soft tail bottoming-out too easily. It's helpful for small bumps, but if I had it to do over, I'd probably opt for a bike with full rear suspension.

Also up there, you could reshape it a bit, to provide a better entry into the wind. like cover it with a fairing?

The front box where it is actually seems to provide some noticeable aero advantage. I've thought about adding a fairing too...still thinking about it.

Just wondering , not suggesting Perhaps all that wieght up there would create too much stress on the frame/ forks.

Yah, there's already a fair bit of transverse play in the front forks. I'm concerned adding more weight could make it worse.

[newbie electric rider]

Above the forks attached to the handlebars, If you turned the handlebars the batteries would turn too, I was wondering if that would create dampining, (you know an object in motion stays in motion unless....)and a better entry into the wind. ( it is apparent that after 30 mph, you get a lot of resistance from the wind, the beaufort scale comes into play there, every time you go up a force, like a force 3 to a force 4 it is double the pressure.)I have been thinking quite a bit about where to put the batteries, then was reading the post about fairings.

[xyster]

At 22lbs, my front pack is a bit heavy I think to simply and adequately fix to the handlebars. Also, it'd have to hang down in order not to block the lights; there's not enough room for a 9" tall box below the lights. Your idea might work great for a smaller, lighter pack in a curved enclosure.

Front panniers, like these from Nashbar, could be good for lighter, inherently sturdier packs, but wouldn't do much to help streamline the bike.

[Beagle123]

Hey xter:

I wandered over here to your thread to check out your batteries, and I got caught-up reading about your bike. Its really awesome. When I first encountered this site about 6 months ago, it was the first one I read, but I didn't know the meaning of all the info. Now that I understand it, I'm really impressed with your results. 10 amps to go 20mph is excellent.

I think it was a huge gain switching to a 20 inch tire. I always favor smaller tires for all ebikes because we use motors that spin at 3000 rpms, so we're always gearing down. It seems like you ccan never gear down enough. In your case you really benifited.

This chart shows that you hit your max efficiency at 40mph (top speed) I think that's an indication that the smaller tire really helped. WIth your bigger tire, your bike must have been running at lower efficiency--perhaps 85% because that would coencide with about the 33mph level. In my estimation, an eve smaller tire could offer a little more power and efficiency (not that I'm suggesting you switch again).

In one post you said that you were able to get about 30 amps from your packs, but I could swear that I saw a post of yours earlier saying you re-soldered your connections and you're now getting more amps. WHat is your battery power status now?

How many "C" discharge rate are those batteries? it seems like if you drew 2C (is that realistic?) you'd be getting 66amps! That's 4500 watts!

Does that thing go 50mph now?

[xyster]

[size=18]Hey xter:

I wandered over here to your thread to check out your batteries, and I got caught-up reading about your bike. Its really awesome.

Thanks, Beagle. Hundreds of hours of work and experimentation went into it -- like I imagine is true of your present ebike project.

When I first encountered this site about 6 months ago, it was the first one I read, but I didn't know the meaning of all the info. Now that I understand it, I'm really impressed with your results. 10 amps to go 20mph is excellent.

Actually, 10 amps buys me 26mph now. 5 amps buys me 20mph. Of course extraneous wind and road conditions make a huge difference -- so that's just an average. Because the voltage is higher than yours' (84v fully charged), the amps needed to go X speed are proportionately fewer.

I think it was a huge gain switching to a 20 inch tire. I always favor smaller tires for all ebikes because we use motors that spin at 3000 rpms, so we're always gearing down. It seems like you ccan never gear down enough. In your case you really benifited.

Oh, definitely.

This chart shows that you hit your max efficiency at 40mph (top speed) I think that's an indication that the smaller tire really helped. WIth your bigger tire, your bike must have been running at lower efficiency--perhaps 85% because that would coencide with about the 33mph level. In my estimation, an eve smaller tire could offer a little more power and efficiency (not that I'm suggesting you switch again).

Efficiency gain was part of the reason I switched. At the present voltage, the motor is about wound-out at 35mph, which is about the fastest I ever ride anyway. So gearing it faster with the previous 24" tire was a waste of power.

In one post you said that you were able to get about 30 amps from your packs, but I could swear that I saw a post of yours earlier saying you re-soldered your connections and you're now getting more amps. WHat is your battery power status now?

The difference in max amps turned out to be caused by the controller's current limit wandering with temperature. Cold day, cold controller limit is 31 amps. Warm day or warmed-up controller limit is 35 amps.

Rewiring and resoldering the pack, and switching to better connectors, cut voltage sag from 10 volts at 35 amps to 6 volts at 35 amps. That extra 4 volts is like getting an extra 15p1s pack for free!

The individual cells are rated 1.5c (49.5 amps for the 33ah pack). For reasons discussed in detail in other threads, I prefer not to push these cells much beyond 1C -- particularly as they drain beyond 50% SoC.

it seems like if you drew 2C (is that realistic?) you'd be getting 66amps! That's 4500 watts!

My next mini-project is to re-FET the controller for 60-80 max amps, and have installed an adjustable limit so I can limit it to 35-40 amps until I can build a 23s4p emoli "sport" pack that can handle 80 amps. I'll build this lightweight, short range, high power emoli pack to be snap-on/snap-off modular, like my presents packs are. Then, I'll switch between the packs for short-distance sport rides, and long-distance cruise rides.
I don't do much off-road riding right now because of the bike's one-hundred pound weight, 40lbs of that is the batteries and boxes. The back box is on a rather fragile seatpost rack. I'm thinking if I can cut the bike's weight down 20lbs by using 92 emoli cells, all mounted midframe, I can go off-roading more.

Does that thing go 50mph now?

No, 40mph is the absolute top speed with a fully charged pack. It should top out at 45mph with the future 92v60a pack. But I'm interested in increasing the power not to go faster, but to climb the steepest paved and unpaved hills around here better.

[Beagle123]

My next mini-project is to re-FET the controller for 60-80 max amps, and have installed an adjustable limit so I can limit it to 35-40 amps until I can build a 23s4p emoli "sport" pack that can handle 80 amps.

I wanted to give you my "real world" numbers on the emolis. I've tested my cells with a pair of 1 ohm resistors, and I got a current of about 5.5 amps, and the voltage dropped from 4.12v to 3.80v. I think that's pretty good. I tested the first 1 ohm resistor on my multi-meter, and it read 1.3 ohms. Together, they measured 0.8 ohms, so they weren't exactly 1 ohm each.

Ohm's law: 3.8v w/ 0.8 ohms = 4.75 amps

So its in the ballpark of my 5.5 amp reading.

I'd like to test them at higher discharge rates, but I only bought two 1 ohm resistors at radio shack. Also, I only do the test for a second or two because the resistors heat up. To test for currents of 20 amps, I'd need to get 0.16 ohms of resistance. I could try it if you're interested. I'll just have to stop at radio shack again.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to achieve 20 amps with these things. However, my test wasn't perfect. I have alligator clips on the aluminum and on the resistors that could be effecting my results.

Also, I got pulled over today on my scooter. The cop actually was really nice. I tried to tell him that it as an electric bike, but he wasn't buying it. He let me go, but I'm a bit concerned because I may not be able to register it as a "motorized cycle." Or illegal to ride. Its a weird legal limbo. They insist that you register it, but the DMV refuses to register it because its not a motorcycle. I hope its not the case. But, as usual, I'll be researching it.

[Ypedal]

Is mr.X on a self apointed vacation again ? he's been mia for a few days it seems...

[xyster]

Is mr.X on a self apointed vacation again ? he's been mia for a few days it seems...

Sorry Y, didn't realize I needed to seek the collective's permission before going on "vacation". It was a working vacation; I was helping to prepare a friend's house for sale. No ebiking, unfortunately. Just getting caught up on the more important endless-sphere stuff now....

[fechter]

We were about to send out a search party. Reid Welch is still missing.

[D-Man]

Think your bike just got discontinued xyster. Don't see it for sale anymore. Seems like its hard to find a full suspension comfort bike. Maybe Cadilliac will make it better the next round.

[xyster]

Think your bike just got discontinued xyster. Don't see it for sale anymore. Seems like its hard to find a full suspension comfort bike. Maybe Cadilliac will make it better the next round.

Yah, looks like they cheapened the replacement model while keeping the price about the same. Gone is the rear soft tail and -- on the one advertised at Amazon, but not the one below -- also gone are the disk brakes.
http://www.cadillacbikestore.com/comfort-bikes.htm

The (I guess) replacement model at amazon:

Last year's better model that I have is still advertised here:
http://www.cadillacbicycles.com/adventure_avp21.html

The lady's 06 is still available at Amazon, but the men's version is not. It looks easier to pack batteries midframe on the lady's version. Hmmm....