Full-throttle's 2nd - in progress

[full-throttle]

This will be my second e-bike (Edit: the first one is here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15567). Something to use off-road. Perhaps with a "legal" switch. Handling will be a priority, followed closely by performance and reliability. Will try my best to make it look simple.

Frame

The collection of cracked Al frames at home sadly keeps on growing. For this very reason the material of choice is CrMo steel - strong, tough and weld-able. However, being the heaviest it always was the least attractive to the average Joe-cyclist and, in turn, to the large frame makers. I was quite excited to find the Avanti D-eight for sale. One well known free-rider hacks 60ft drops on one of these regularly. It is not that heavy, the swingarm is actually lighter than my old Sintesi Bazooka (cracked). Comes stock with a carbon fibre fender too.
The previous owner did not treat it with much care..

Two main parts after sandblasting

frame_sandblasted.jpg (127.67 KiB) Viewed 5186 times

Pearl white turned out more of a grey silver..

Partially assembled frame..

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After rebuilding every pivot. Note the low suspension position, nice and neat

..shocks added..

frame2.jpg (130.81 KiB) Viewed 5185 times

..seat and XC wheelset

bike1.jpg (114.58 KiB) Viewed 5184 times

Next, need to figure-out where to place the batteries..

Motor

After a bit of research into hub motors I've settled on MAC Shanghai 500. Got a few motors with a bunch of metal gears to suit directly from the manufacturer. Planning to do noise and performance tests shortly.

mac1.jpg (91.46 KiB) Viewed 5182 times

Batteries

16 cells of Headways 10Ah, from John at e-mtb. Local, good support and great deals.
Headway BMS to suit.

Controller

TBD
Probably modify an existing one or make my own..

[bzhwindtalker]

is that a custom made frame?
I like the trial dirt-bike look of your frame. are you going stockmonkey ? it would help performance uphill by using your rear derailleurs and sprockets, but it's a bit more complicated...

great build

[voicecoils]

Looking RAD!

Great cromo frame choice

Planning to run 26" or 24" wheels?

Here's the ebike.ca simulator for 26" with a 51.2v pack and 35A current limit:

scaled.mac-shang-26".jpg (17.48 KiB) Viewed 5455 times

I've got a busted 72v45A 12 fet Infineon with IRFB4310's. It may just have blown fets, I'm not sure. Want me to send it down and you can try to fix it and maybe load it up with those nice IRFB4110? Mark_A_W is working on setting a new LVC on the 18 fet Infineon I just sent him, it has the same brain and design.

[full-throttle]

Yeah, send it over, I'll have a look. How did it fail?

26" - have lots of tyres and 24" won't work very well.

It a stock frame. Made either in OZ or NZ. Avanti and Keewee used to make them. It is possible to get a motor-x inspired seat for it.

[voicecoils]

Yeah, send it over, I'll have a look. How did it fail?

Will do & I got your email.

The controller popped connected to a motor with a short between phase wires at the axle.

So... I think it will have one or more blown fets.

Happy new year!

[Mark_A_W]

Hey....who helped you sandblast it??

Eh eh??

Ok, you sourced the motors, guess that makes it even.


It looks good.


It will be a race, the DH team is getting there, the pedal drivetrain is almost sorted (I might need to borrow a chainring for a little while, I've ordered that 56t from the UK, but it will take a while to arrive.) Once I (we?) get the controller sorted, I'll have to bite the bullet and unlace my 9C front hub for the rim, and swap the batteries over....and update the DH Team build thread...


I need circlip pliers from work to fit the metal gear. Full Throttle and I work together...I designed the ally part he's using as a motor stand.

Yes...it's my fault he's addicted to the kilowatts. He used to be a real cyclist, with a single speed and all that. MWAHAHAHAHA.

[adrian_sm]

Looking good boys. Can't wait to see them running.

Looks like it will be a happy new year.

Adrian

[full-throttle]

Not many updates, spent the last week and a half on the beach away from the web (and bikes)..

Yes...it's my fault he's addicted to the kilowatts. He used to be a real cyclist, with a single speed and all that. MWAHAHAHAHA.

Hey, that's a bit blunt - I'm only using it to commute to work and back, so I can do real stuff on the week-ends. Like 264 kms a couple of month ago averaging 30, on a singlespeed. And how many times did you drive to work in the last 6 months? Once for me - and only 'cause of a meeting on the way to work.

[Mark_A_W]

About once a week for me - I have to pick up the kids on the way home.


Will you be in tomorrow? I want to test the metal-geared motor on the bench, and talk wheel building:

Washers under the heads? Spoke heads alternating in/out bike style? Or not, ebike style?

Do you put anti seize, or alternately, thread locker on the spokes?

I've built two wheels before, but I want to get this one right.

[full-throttle]

A few updates:

Decided upon the controller (thanks voicecoils!) the Infineon 846 12FET. Its powerful enough, there's a lot of info on it on the forum and the best bit - its programmable. Making a USB programmer was easy and I'm planning of bringing out a 'sport' or 'boost' as well as a 'eco' or 'cop mode' buttons. Will have to experiment. What a nice feature - being able to adjust so many parameters without opening the case. I will replace the stock PVC phase cables with silicone 10AWG and move the connector (Anderson style) close to the dropouts. Also, the stock IRFB4310 will be replaced by IRFB4110 (also thanks to voicecoils) and the linear 12V reg will be replaced by a SMPS based on LM5007 (input up to 80V).

The wheel has been laced: Mavic EX729 rim, Sapim Strong spokes. These will go well with Maxxis Hookworms 2.5.

wheel-laced.jpg (109.67 KiB) Viewed 4750 times

Built a bike stand to help with mounting of the battery, etc..

stand.jpg (108.13 KiB) Viewed 4749 times

Most of the parts have arrived, others are on their way.

[Mark_A_W]

AWESOME!!! That bike looks really cool. (Can we have a closeup of the BB/Suspension area - is that an orange chainguide roller?)

You've got to bring that truing stand into work. Or I'll drive one day and drive to your place to get it at lunchtime (and same for return). I don't wanna do it in the frame...unless I can bribe you to do me a favour?


Hey I like the bike stand...ally racking extrusion eh? I need to build some sort of similar stand, maybe from the front forks, but letting the rear wheel spin. So connecting to the frame at the rear. Currently my bike is in a car rack bolted to the bench, but that won't work with the battery box.



I'll update my build thread tonight I hope (actually, I'll start a new thread so it's "mine"). I've done the pedal drivetrain. But until I strip my current ebike for the rim I can't build the wheel.

See you Tuesday (not in tomorrow).


Mark

Wish my spokes were black, but I got silver ones, despite the pic on the webpage....grrr..

[AussieJester]

LOVE the frame would also like to see a few close ups of the bottom bracket/suspension pivot area...

KiM

[full-throttle]

Mark and Kim, thank you for your comments, I will post a picture of the pivot area on the w/end.

[full-throttle]

Here you go:

linkage.jpg (122.77 KiB) Viewed 4373 times

A few pics of the controller mods:
Switchmode 12V regulator (bare pcbs being routed, assembled module, module installed)

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smps.jpg (94.16 KiB) Viewed 4371 times

controller mod.jpg (137.13 KiB) Viewed 4372 times

Programming USB dongle (note the transmit switch in the front)

prog.jpg (111.71 KiB) Viewed 4371 times

[Mark_A_W]

Ehh...oup..

Different USB to Serial Dongle to the one at work. Is this your one for home?



And you'll have to explain to everyone why the SMPS, instead of the stock resistors + regulator.

[AussieJester]

Cheers for the close ups of the frame, more i see it the more i like it


KiM

[full-throttle]

Yeah, the best thing is - all standard dimensions: 68mm bb, 135mm rear axle, 1 1/8" head tube, IS disc mount.

And you'll have to explain to everyone why the SMPS, instead of the stock resistors + regulator.

Why would I want a heater inside my controller?? This thing runs cool from 20V to 75V. Read this:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5713#p85483

Even at 800 ohm total all these resistors are way hot to the touch.
But now well within rated watt limits.

[etard]

Nice frame, I love how the suspension works, alot like a motorcycle. Since you have welding skills, it would be really sick to build your own seatpost mount combined battery controller rack all in one. so what if the frame weighs 5 pounds more, steel is so much better for ebike purposes. Great choice I will be following this build. I'm not familiar with that motor, is it expensive? Well done, how did Mark set you down this path?

[full-throttle]

Umm.. I didn't build it - its a stock frame.. All I did was getting it sandblasted and painted.

Not sure about the weight, its quality CrMo that's the only thing that matters to me.

The motor is more or less what is commonly known as Puma (there was a great thread about all it somewhere). Price - cheaper than you'd expect - got a few direct from the manufacturer.

[Microbatman]

Nice frame

Been looking for a FULL SUSPENSION cromoly frame for 2 years.

Any other FULL SUSPENSION steel or cromoly frames out there that people know of, excluding the cutom frame made by Hal9000v2.0 on the forums here?

Would love to see an easy to convert steel full suspension frame even in kit form if need be.

[full-throttle]

Not much progress - got something else keeping me busy. For the same reason there will not be any updates for the four weeks.

Here's combined effort with Mark_A_W in making the battery pack.

batt1.jpg (107.05 KiB) Viewed 1335 times

batt2.jpg (80.68 KiB) Viewed 1447 times

batt3.jpg (67.37 KiB) Viewed 1447 times

batt4.jpg (131.41 KiB) Viewed 1335 times

I'm working on polycarbonate cell holders/separators.

[adrian_sm]

Nice.

How wide does it end up. My in frame battery bag I think is around 130mm, and I wouldn't want to go any wider, because it wouldn't fit between the cranks, and my calf muscles would start to touch it.

Looking pretty sweet.

Good luck and congratulations for the "four week break".

[full-throttle]

Just under 130mm - blend in nicely with the swingarm and double crown fork.

Edit: Oh, and thanks! You obviously know what I meant.

[full-throttle]

Had 1/2hr to work on the bike last night - checked how well does Avid Code 203mm fit on the motor and it turns out it dos not need any spacers between the hub and the disc (unlike Avid Juicy 203 or Hayes 203). Prob because Codes are quad piston design with a narrower profile. Shimano Saint is narrower still methinks. The 203 G2 rotor slides onto the hub nicely too, while other rotors I've tried had issues. The only tweaking required will be changing the concentric washers by ~2mm so the caliper sits 2mm lower (the axle is 14mm x 10mm or 2mm off-centre). I noticed this on my current setup too.

[etard]

Nice , clean, protected, but where does the duct tape go?

I love this build, should be very reliable. What do you plan on doing to the sharp edges on the battery tray? I gotta say, I think more white with those blue batteries would look the biznass though. Prolly won't be showing off the batteries though huh?