Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby methods » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:51 pm

ok ok... lets slow down. :|

(big sigh from methods....)


First off - throttle
If you are using a pigtail extension that you got from me the color code DOES NOT MATCH.
peal back the heat shrink from the connector and you will see the color code for the throttle - use that.

Freewheel -
You may need to remove that freewheel.
Notice that on the disk side there were large spacers - one was for the disk and the other was for the freewheel.
Sometimes you need this to clear the motor - sometimes not.
You will definitely need a small washer on the axle on the freewheel side THAT FITS INSIDE THE FREEWHEEL to space out the forks.
If you use a big washer the freewheel will bind

Controller -
I am positive that your controller is not DOA - just slow it down and take more pictures.
Please be VERY VERY VERY careful with that controller open and on the bench. One little piece of metal underneath and you will have a spark show.
Also - even though Keywin may have set the LVC low (which he may or may not have actually done) the regulator resistors still need to be looked at to see what your actual usable voltage range is.


The gold torque arms are "extra" and sometimes they work out perfect. If you dont need them just take them off.

There are videos on how to bolt up the motor.
Please take the time to check them out
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=e-bikekit&search_type=&aq=f


-methods
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby methods » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Other notes;


You will have to spread the rear forks to fit the motor with the extra washers.
Never mount an axle inside of the drops without a washer - the axle will act as a wedge and split open the drops.

Just as a reminder - never, ever run a motor without a torque arm. I know that once you get that thing turning you are going to want to blaze down the driveway....
DONT! Be patient :) Just last week on my trike I discovered that both of my rear nuts were so loose that I could turn them by hand. Lucky for me I was running two stout torque arms and they alone were not only keeping the motor from rotating, but they were keeping the motor in place - so that it would not spit out. That was 100V 100A........

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:18 pm

Well the throttle issue is worked out and I have the controller back together and the motor was spinning. Right now I'm mounting the rear wheel. I'll post some pics when I finish up... I'll watch a few videos and browse a few threads first tho. :wink:

I've got the wheel somewhat mounted. I have a gold torque arm on the non-freewheel side and I will put the e-bike kit torque arm on the other side. I have washers on both sides and I will post pics up when I am finished.

No load current at 12s lipo reading about 48v is 1.15a. :wink:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:45 pm

First test run was a success. I am a proud and happy owner of a functional ebike. I cannot decribe in words how happy I am with my new ebike. :D

It's not completely done yet, but close. I need to get new pipe clamps for the battery rack and do few other odds and ends.

I went to the table saw and cut a piece of plywood. I also used a torch to heat up the bracket and bent it from 90*. I tested the suspension travel by loostening the shock all the way. It still has a good inch from hitting the tire after it bottoms out.
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I made a 6p adapter for charging/running
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Let me know your thoughts on my torqe arm setup. I went easy on it during the test run

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Bike after run
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It was a wet, cold ride. The temp right now is about 36*f and it got done raining melting the ice we got awhile ago that was on top of the snow that was on the road. I had to be very careful. Fenders are on the possible projects list. I didn't wear any gloves, and my hands were COLD. :roll:

I didn't have the watt meter hooked up, but I did have the gps. It's a garmin forerunner 201. I ran at 44v 10ah with the four new packs because the two old ones have a different charge and I didn't feel like charging the new ones. It was getting dark. Time was 11:42, Distance was 1.86mi, Top Speed was 24.9mph, and avg speed was 9.5mph.

I am Very excited about that. :D On 66v I bet I can cruise at 30mph no problem. I was considering delta/wye right away but now I can't imagine needing it. Maybe in the future I might do it so I can ride at 44v and get the same performance and be a little more efficient.

Also, what are the chances water entered the mtor through the axle? I will seal it better before the next run. My shifter stopped working halfway through the run after my chain fell off after I shifted too low. I'll have to adjust the shifter cable. I think it was mentioned earlier on in the thread.. :wink:

Let me know what I need to improve on the bike and if my torqe arm setup needs to be changed. Thanks for everyones who helped and contributed. :mrgreen: You all get a cookie. :P
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:27 pm

water will seep down the axle if you let it. A drip loop and silicon around the wires will help greatly.


Was it just the throttle causing issues?
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:37 pm

The throttle was the only thing holding me back. Well, except the shifter acted up during the run but that's not as important. It turns out the trigger part of the shifter was hitting the side of the throttle so it wouldn't shift up once I shifted down. Once I moved the shifter away from the throttle, I realized the cable came out of it's seating inside of the shifter. The end of the cable was getting jammed in the machanism. I got er back and it was a good hour-long ordeal.. :lol:

If the weather is nice tomorrow (yeah right :P) I will ride to the hardware store and get some new pipe clamps for the battery rack. I am pretty happy with how the free/ghetto battery rack it turned out. :mrgreen:

What is a drip loop? Is that just where I loop the wires next to the axle so water drips off?
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby biohazardman » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:34 pm

Yes, drip loop is the loop you make happen as the wire come out of the axle. Make them go down in a small loop before the come back up. That way the water can drip off onto the ground and not run into your motor. Good to see Methods helped you get it going. I think we are our own worst enemy when it comes to messing these up as we assemble and wire them.
I have my doubts that your battery tray will hold out long. Things take quite a pounding at speed. A decent seat post rack might be better else, yours will need to secured better to the bike. Might want to cover and secure the wire a bit better too as the insulation will rub and wear through at the most inopportune moment. I checked everything closely for travel clearance but after a couple of curb jumps I noticed even with the extra clearance I left the controller hit the fender.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:15 pm

I just got back form 11.5mi of hardcore riding. I was at 44v for most of it and I was using my watt meter. I was pulling about 15a at 35mph with no wind. I was up to 25a at 23mph with a headwind. It's windy out today.

I made a spreadsheet - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... ZZmc&hl=en

Close to the end of the run I switched to 67v. It was fast! I topped out at 36mph according to my gps. I think I'll keep it at 67v of rnow on. 8)

It is so much fun riding on main roadways with other cars; I just have to be really careful. I can see myself riding this a LOT.

On the spreadsheet I made a few colums to calculate my gas savings. My truck gets about 10-12mpg in the winter and cloe to 17 in the summer. I put it at 15 and so far I've save $2.30. I will have to go over 4,500 miles to pay off the $800+ bike. (if gas stays at $2.60) :wink:

I am loving my ebike. Even with the big puddle of water underneath it right now. :lol: I wouldn't trade it for the world.

EDIT - @biohazardman I see where you are coming from on the battery rack. I don't know how this will hold up, but I'll keep it for now. On my ride today I stopped at the hardware store and bought some new hose clamps and re-attached the rack. I also added loctite to the bolts, and I may add a fender. I can put as much of my weight on it as I can before I fall over and it stays strong. Even with the "upgrades" I'll check it before and after every run..

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:59 pm

Well I went for another ride to pick up a laptop. I ran 67v and it was snowing. On the way back I tried to stop at an intersection but it was icy. I fell down. It was a pretty soft crash, but it took my bike out of commision.

I don't deny my stupidity. I now know what those little plastic pieces and the opening on the side of the axle are for.

How do I open up the motor so I can install new phase/hall wires? I tried opening it up when I got it but I didn't want to damage it trying...

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby methods » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:13 pm

Think of this as an oportunity to upgrade.
Dont worry - we have all eaten major shit.
You get that full face helmet I we were talking about yet >????

ah,,,,, the ride of shame :)
Nothing like pedaling an electric bike eh? :wink:

That is an easy fix.
Do this:


Remove the wheel
Set the wheel down with the freewheel side down
Protect the axle with a pad or something
mark the lid for orientation (so you can put it back clocked to the same spot)
Remove all of the socket head cap screws holding the lid on
put your knees on the sides of the tire and try to "pop" the magnet ring down
The lid and stator should stay up
You may need to go around and break the seal by wedging in a very small screwdriver etc.


Once it is open please be VERY CAREFUL - the magent is strong enough to take the ends of your fingers off.......
Pull the stator out and away from the magnet ring
Set it on your workbench
Slide the cover off and set it aside
Take pictures of the phase covers.
De-solder the yellow, green, and blue phase wires
throw them away
Check the hall wires, if they are hosed replace them.
Find some 12awg teflon wire (I can send you some if you are in a pinch)
lace the 12awg wire down the axle and solder it back up to the phases
Mark them right away so you dont forget - yellow blue green

Now take the stator and very carefully slide it back into the magnet ring.
You are going to want to keep your knees on the wheel to keep it from JUMPING up to meet the stator
hold the stator only by the axle - the magnetic strength is HUGE
Try to slow it down as much as possible when it sucks it in
It will go BANG - dont worry :twisted:

Slide the cover back over and screw it down in a star pattern
No need to go crazy with the fastners - tight is tight enough.

That is enough info to get you rolling.
Search through my threads - I have talked about it before

-methods

P.S. Dont even think about using the stock 16g wire - it is NOT good enough for what you are doing. This was perfect timing. 14awg is acceptable but 12 is better
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:52 pm

Thanks for the instructions! I have been looking for full face helmets.. One would have been nice today! I will try to find one at a rummage sale this spring. Before this ride I decided to wear an old skateboarding helmet I had. I had a sweet pimp-hat the fit over it but it blew off right away so I put it in the backpack I was wearing. 67v is a RUSH. It was snowing, and it really hurt and it was hard to see. I will wear goggles on the next snow run. :shock:

I got a new top speed - 37.9mph. Wow. I am getting up there.. :o

I have some 12ga wire but I don't know if it will be enough. I will have to see. I have smaller gauge wire to replace the hall wires with but I am curious, how would cat5 cable do? It is really small so it might be good for people wanting to fit 10awg.

If I don't have enough 12awg I'll just finish it off with 10. Next order to hobbycity will have lots of wire on it...

Also, awhile back I bought a few neodymium magnets. One holds 130lbs and it ripped a hole in my pocket when it stuck to a pole. I have two smaller ones holding a propane tank on my spud gun along with other assorted neo magnets. These aren't in a motor though,, it scares me when I put the rotor back in a 350w brushed motor. :| :lol:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Thanks again for the instructions Methods!

I got the motor apart and the wire replaced. I used 12ga silicone wire with shrink wrap instead of insulation. It was tough to get in but I got er in there. I ended up using some cat5 cable for the halls just through the axle. I hope it turns out ok.

I ran out of solder and I almost ran out of wire. I still have to solder up the hall connector then I can re-assemble it all. :D

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I used the insulation that was covering the old phase and hall wires and used it just to cover the hall wires. I will get the piece of paper before I foget and put it between the phase solder joints and the stator before I forget... I wasn't able to put the nice fabric-type insulation back on so it's just electrical tape for nwo. I think it turned out great. :mrgreen:

BTW I havea few 10ga extensions so my wires make it to the controller. :wink:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:59 pm

I got a lot of work done today. Not only did I replace the wires on the motor, but I cleaned everything up. There is still a lot of cleaning up to do too.. I added some instrumentation and I will consider re-attaching the watt meter and make it run off just one battery. The thing with that is it would draw more current and make more resistance from one or two batteries unbalancing my pack. I do have my lvc and Voltgae/temp monitor off one balance tap but I think that will be ok. If it isn't then I'll use my 6p balance adapter. 8)

Here are the pics, starting up where I left off

I got really bothered by the hall connector being too big to put anything on the axle. I solved that problem by adding some RC servo connectors before the main hall connector. These haven't been the most reliable connectors for me in the past, but they are cheap and plentiful. Reliability comes with practice assembling them; they are crimp on connectors.

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I added some duct tape to my battery rack. I don't want to call it permanent, but it might just be. There is foam padding under all the tape. I call it the "lipo lawn chair". LOL

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I braided the motor wires

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I drilled a hole and better-attached the left-hand torque arm. Notice the nice plastic wire gaurd!! Let me know if the wires should be coming out of the top and not the bottom side of the axle...

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And my new instrumentation.

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Here's the beans on the thing on the top

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For the gadget on the bottom - The voltage and temp readings are actually pretty easy to read; this picture doesn't do it justice. I've heard it isn't good with bright light, so I'll have to see about that. The sun hasn't come out in two weeks tho so it isn't a problem at the moment! :roll:
-It only reads in Celcius.. :( You can set a low voltage or high temperature and the buzzer will go off when it reaches that limit. iirc you can't do both... I wanted to mount the temp sensor in my motor and that would have been SWEET but I couldn't get any more wire in the hole.. :wink:

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With my next hobbycity order I am definately getting some wire sleeving - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/stor ... Search.asp

It should turn out to work pretty well on e-bikes. I think it's a great application for it.

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I also need lots of wire, 12ga and 10ga, more bullet connectors (alredy used 20prs!!), and you know... Everytime I want to buy $20 of stuff it grows to $50. :| LOL :lol:
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby rechargeourfuture » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:57 am

My first build may just be a Mongoose Blackcomb. I have 6 (+1 extra just in case) 6s1p 5000mah 25c Turnigys backordered from Hobbycity right now. Looks like your having too much fun with 3s2p. I'll be keeping at 2s3p for awhile but I assume it'l be too temping to volt up after a few rides. :) I'm still leaning towards a 5303 or 5304 on 26". How do you like the starting torque of the 9c at 44 and 67v? Is that a 9x7?

Just a few comments after browsing through your thread..

Switch connectors AND/OR get some fuses wired in there son, those bullets will bite ya eventually! The fuses may just save your ass, literally I'm afraid... :oops:

You may want to consider resoldering your phase wires if you ever have the backwheel off again. A butt joint like that may not be ideal within the motor case with all the heat, vibration, etc. Try twisting the two stripped ends together first (opposing eachother, NOT like a wire nut), then fill with solder. That provides a good physical connection without stressing the wires.

I see the micro-t back there, I have wasted countless $$$ on R/C :roll: , you as well?

Keep us all updated on the thread. I should have something pretty similar to show off in a couple months. It's a huge help to read through others who have done this bike before, you and the Doc.

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:40 am

My soldering skills are... developing. I just started using the wire-wrapping method a when I was doing the wheel. IIRC the hall sensors aren't even done like that. :shock: Up to then I used a butt joint for everything. Then again, I've never had a problem with bikes or RC. I think they'll work at least for awhile...

The motor is a 9x7 9c, and I really can't give you a good say on the torque. It is enough, and I can't compare it to anything. I haven't really tested it either because: It's cold. It's windy. It's icy. The main reason is that this is my first bike and I don't know how much abuse my torque arms can take.

Good luck with your bike! There is nothing like the first ride on your ebike. I feel like a college kid planning a house party the the weekend. I can't wait to ride my bike! You will start off at 44v, I did too. I lasted 1 and a half runs till I switched to 66v; I'm not sure how long you will last. :mrgreen:

I have put lots of money into RC....... Now that I got my ebike done.. Ebikes are just soo much better. :mrgreen: Not only are they useful, but they are just way more BA and Dangerous. I am going to keep my CRT .5 and my micro T outrunner project, but I am selling/have sold the rest of it. I am even considering selling the .5 but I think I may regret it in the future.

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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby beast775 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:13 am

watching this build like a hawk. :shock: ...im afraid you need a few fuses.a few connectors you have look like they will let go under load.might save your pack?but great build so far.im getting something close to what your running.take it easy 8)
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby rechargeourfuture » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:20 pm

Sad how we buy and sell R/C like stocks hey? I've had so many cars and planes in the past I've lost track. Always making room and justifying buying this and that. "I'll just sell that one instead and it's like I'm getting this one for free" ya right... My current "beater" is the new Slash 4x4. Say what you will about Traxxas but they did right on this one. Nothing like a well setup SC10 or Blitz but everyone and their grandma could drive this one: sideways at 40mph. 8)
Your micro-t is rediculous :shock: . Does it flip right over or are those outrunners high kv?

I cannot wait to get the bike project rolling. Waiting on so many things, HobbyCity, Gary's BMS, picking my motor, and getting the blackcomb. Waiting makes ya appreciate it that much more I suppose...

Looks like you have no problem soldering. And yeh I'll admit I've done my share of butt soldering to get by in R/C. I figured that for this project (replacing my current form of transportation) I'd take everything a few steps farther so I don't regret it half way to work. Safety is huge too so I'll be outsourcing the torque plates no matter what motor choice I go with. I may just copy the Doc's design (thanks Doc!).

I hope 4,500mi is just the first step for you. I know a full size EV is in my future. Let's hope the push from everyone here gets the technology to a point where there is no excuse.

Best of luck again, keep the pictures coming.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:36 pm

Thanks for the kind words! I only had my micro T running once or twice; it wasn't made to go that fast. :lol: The motors have a lot of trouble syncing up. Once they do it blasts off. I would guess 40-50+mph. It almost went under a running lawnmower and the motor mount bent, so I took it in for the day. I have rewound one motor and once I stop being lazy I'll rewind the other motor. The lower kv should make it usable. :twisted: Good luck on your Ebike! :D

I was doing more research on a rear disc brake adapter, when I realized there are brakes built into the controller which brake the motor. I don't know if it will do any regen, but that isn't needed for my use. What is a good regen/e-brake I can install that will work with my ecrazy man controller? I assume it's proportional, not on/off?

OR is the brake plug just used to break the throttle circut to prevent gassing it and braking at the same time?? :shock:

Off to a search!

And I realized I didn't have a good full-body shot on here. Here's a before/after shot! It will probably never be done, but here's some pics anyway... :mrgreen:

before
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after
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:07 pm

I am set on getting some rear brakes now... I am asking around for junk bikes with woking v-brakes.

Here is my ride log I made - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... sYfg&hl=en
Let me know what you think or if it can use any improvements. I'm approaching 30mi and I have saved over $4.50 on gas! (if I would have just driven around for no reason at all, of course :wink: )

I have a short video. The one kid's name is chuck, he's a little odd, and I was going to race him. His bike (which cost more then my ebike! :shock: ) wasn't working, and he kinda knew something was up, so we never raced. :( :lol:

And no full face helmet yet... I was really scared of the ice on the side of the road.. I hope that melts soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RfP5q3sfjU
Add your bike to the Unofficial E-Bike Garage! - http://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?key ... OWcg&hl=en
Novara Buzz FS MTB- 18s 15Ah Turnigy Lipo - 12Fet controller @57A - 9C 2807 motor - 600W charging - 4500W peak - 40Mph - 20Mi range
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby SilverSurfer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:49 pm

Great adventure! Congrats on the build man.
As you have done unto the least of these my brethren, you have done it unto me. Yeshua (Jesus)
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby biohazardman » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:14 pm

Good to see you got it all werqed out and are on the road. Keep an eye on the spoke tension and axle nuts they may need to be tightened up now and then. It takes alot of miles for these things to pay for themselves and may not even happen if you constantly upgrade like many. Still it is a great hobby/addiction to have and enjoy.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:39 am

stealth!! All I hear is tire on road noise. Very cool.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby lutach » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:14 am

Nice bike.
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Metallover » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 pm

Thanks guys! Never thought about the noise... Guess that's because I never heard anything in the first place!! :mrgreen:

I am not an expert bike mechanic, what are some tips for maintaining wheels/spokes? How do I know if they need to be tightened?

I got another few inches of snow so I'll wait until that melts off before I do any more riding... There's ice underneath and there will probably be more ice when the snow melts so riding would be a little trecherous.. :shock:
Add your bike to the Unofficial E-Bike Garage! - http://spreadsheets2.google.com/ccc?key ... OWcg&hl=en
Novara Buzz FS MTB- 18s 15Ah Turnigy Lipo - 12Fet controller @57A - 9C 2807 motor - 600W charging - 4500W peak - 40Mph - 20Mi range
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Re: Metallover's 9c Blackcomb Build

Postby Bobocop » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:29 pm

Metallover wrote:Also, awhile back I bought a few neodymium magnets. One holds 130lbs and it ripped a hole in my pocket when it stuck to a pole.


:lol: :lol: I couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes when i read that :lol: :D
and i still laugh every time i think about it :D
How long were you stuck to the pole for ? :D

Nice build Metallover,
I'm going to order one of these 9c motors for one of my choppers, (haven't decided from where yet) and i think i'll change the hub wires (like you did) as soon as i get it,

Doe's the motor get hot at all on 66v ?
or do you think it can still handle up to the 72v your controller is rated for?
Last edited by Bobocop on Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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