SS Commuter Cannibalization

Back after a rather long hiatus from the forum. Have put nearly 4000 miles on my Stealth bike since last posting. New job will be a mere 8 miles away, and I have decided to undertake another build project. Now armed with the ability to weld, I am looking forward to the project.

The plan for this one is to build a commuter for the NASTIEST, wettest, coldest days as 2010 draws to a close. A big DD hub motor at 74 volts is fun, but I want to build this one requiring a bit more pedaling input. Truly a pedal assist/human-electric - hybrid- synergy kind of thing. Slow down and smell roses...Can be goofy on my motorcycle if necessary. Plus I am running a single speed, 15T rear, 44T front. easy to run out of gear after about 17 mph.

Anyway, after shopping for my set up, I found the answer. I already have a KHS solo one softail. 26" MTB, put it together a few years ago for a beach vaction. The only crappy part is that the wheelset was ancient. So I need not only a hub motor, controller, throttle, but also a good front wheel, new tires, fenders, etc., etc., etc., All those little parts add up.

Then I found this
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Complete-electric-bike-makes-great-DIY-kit-/110502770785?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ba7a7861

Nice Heinzmann hub motor/wheel, shimano dynamo front hub/wheel, controller, throttle, fenders, tires, tubes,etc. A complete bike without batts or charger. These retailed for about 1300 new. I can interchange with the lithium batts on my stealth bike.

Bada bing. The Tres Terra Callisto will be cannibalized, all the goods moved to the KHS. Should end up much lighter than the Stealth bike, and it will be completely weatherproof after I get done with it.

Pics to come.

Peace,

Len

Nice find! If you get tired of the noise of the heinzmann, you could replace it with a qieter motor, like amped bikes new gearmotor. But for riding wet, it's hard to beat the reliability of old school brushed motors. For an 8 mile ride, it's inefficiency won't matter one bit.

I bought 1 of these as well very nice bike wish i could find the battery tank
Jay

Did you buy it recently? Is it juiced and running? If so, how does that Heinzmann move ya? How much do you weigh?


Here is a pic of the platform all of the Terra Tres Callisto running gear will be migrating to. As always, my technical consultant will be on board for the duration of this project.

Well,

Started a new job thursday. Today is the first day I left early enough to putz around before falling asleep. The Tres Terra showed up, and I gotta say, I am extremely pleased with the component specs and quality of the hub motor (heinzmann), controller (potted), rims, front hub (shimano dynamo), fenders (pc'd metal), v brakes (tektro). Even the pedals are wide aluminum bmx platform style. Fork is a crappy Zoom model, but it does have disk mounts.Great deal for 200 clams.




I don't think a better deal can be had right now for what ya get. So, now as time permits, the above components will get moved to the KHS. BTW, I will be posting the unused carcass in the for sale section.

I had been looking at that same Tres Terra Calisto bike for some time but the single-speed setup turned me off. Then came along the liquidation of the Ultra Motor Europa (same as Tres Terra Europa) with its 7 speed freewheel and 36V lithium battery so I bit. Unfortuantely I find the Heinzmann motor to be the real sore spot with the bike; it's loud, really LOUD, it's inefficient, it gets hot, I mean really HOT and it's not all that strong either. Needless to say it will be replaced soon!

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18731

-R

Russel,

I read your review - very insightful. I was looking for a CHEAP, simple single speed set up and the tres terra appeared to fit the bill perfectly. I have been riding a pedal -only road bike about 30-40 miles every day since march, and have gotten back into pretty good riding shape. I figure with my pedal input I can overcome the low power/high heat characteristics of the motor and rely less heavily on the throttle. Plus she's going to be operated in the slop and cold - should help cooling a little as well.....I don't want to sweat my ass off when the temps get below the upper 30's as fall of this year comes to a close. Riding pedal bikes so much again recently reminded me that while ebikes are certainlhy more efficient than ICE, pedal - only bikes are more efficient than ebikes. Rather than tweaking the ebike (adding an extra battery, bigger hub motor, etc) to go faster, I have to tweak my body (diet, exercise, sleep, etc.) I like the feeling of working a little while I am scooting along...

Looking for the Middle of that Path.

Of course I guess we will see once she's assembled...... :?

The Heinzmann does freewheel nicely but the Europa is not a bike which I can pedal efficiently, and I didn't buy it to pedal, but instead to be a short range transportation/commuter type bike. I was thinking along the same lines as you though, like what if I laced the Heinzmann into a 700C wheel and used it on my "fitness" E-bike. Not only would that address the heating issue because I presently use the Bafang motor for assist and not for continuous full power but the larger tire size would also raise the top speed to 22mph+. The thing is it's sooooo darn loud that it draws unwanted attention just riding down the street, on the quieter bike path amongst regular cyclysts it's plain embarassing.

-R

Yes I just purchased it and have not recieved the juice for it yet ,I was
impressed with the quality of the bike and Yes it is one of the best buys
out there for what you get I ordered a 36v 20a Lpo4 but it hasnt arrived
yet So I will post more after i get the juice and test a few times probably
leave the bike as is for now and just use the rear rack for batt pack

Okey Dokey.

Pulled the wiring/components off the Callisto last night. Roughed in the hub motor with spacers. I am going to have to come up with a tab of some sort for the torgue arm on the non - drive side chainstay. Debating on welding a tab to the frame or coming up with a simple clamp of some sort. I'll figure that out later..


First issue popped up while mocking the callisto throttle/on-off switch/cruise assembly to the bars. Existing brake levers are two-finger length, and the housing for the throttle is way to wide for me to reach the rear brake lever when it is mounted. I can just barely get one finger on the lever. Plus it looks hack and non-symmetrical...

Pics:



Solution?
I opened up the throttle housing - there is a plastic sleeve that the handle bar sets into. I am going to remove a section of this and remove a section of the housing, slide the lever inside the housing, and then bolt back up. Pencil is pointing to the location that the brake lever will exit the housing.


Probably end up showing pics of the housing modification, Looks pretty easy, just trimming some plastic... Methinks the biggest challenge will be the water-proofing phase when I get there..

Len

well,

pulled the housing apart and carved out some plastic. brake lever is moved inside housing, and everything feels pretty good.


Also fabbed up a quick torque arm mount for the hub motor. Kinda chunky but it should disappear with some black paint on it..


Next up is the battery box/controller housing. Will be sheet metal and mount inside the main triangle frame. That phase will require some time, which seems to be at a premium right now.

Peace,

Len

Man, what happen to all the free time I used to have? I'm actually off today, and while I have been staring at the bike in the living room after coming home every night, I haven't done more than metally try to figure out what to do with the battery box.

My first inclination was to fabricate and weld an oval - shaped box, about 10"w X 6"h, and about 4 inches wide. problem is that it would take forever, and I still need to fab some mounting brackets utilizing the h2o bottle cage mounts, as well as a few more attachment points up the seat and down tubes.

i did, however, discover that I stil have a crap load of 7.62mm ammo cans laying around. This was the basis for my mount on the stealth bike, and it has held up quite well. However, that box was much wider and taller.

These smaller ammo cans are about 4" wide. I think I am going to run with this setup again because I am familiar with it. I am also going to keep the can nearly fully intact, removing only the handle on the lid and a few unneeded rattling bits. took a pic:
View attachment khsebike 009.jpg

if i leave the box intact, I can fit BOTH 37v/10.5 ah packs in the can. If I chop it down, I can fit one and probably wont have to add additional seat/down tube mounts. I am about 75 percent leaning towards chopping the box down to accommodate just one battery... controller will be mounted on the underside of the can. it is fully potted, and has a plastic cover that I am going to put on in wet weather.
View attachment khsebike 010.jpg


Going for full water proof with this set up. technically speaking this pack should get me about 17 miles range, so with a re-charge at work during the day I should be fine. And it will be significantly lighter than the stealth bike..

you cant beat ammo boxes.i like this build,im sure you can gear it for top speed cadence,even if your pedals are slow at first,it still helps keep your power up.

I am going to run a 44t/15t set up to start. I have a ton of chainrings laying around, but by my calculations I should be able to pedal about 40% and throttle about 60% at around 15mph, and pedal 10% throttle 90% at around 18 mph. mostly though, I just want to pedal at start and during climbs to increase efficiency...

I run out of any real pedal input at 22mph on my 50t/16t set up on the 5304 stealth bike.

Also decided to chop about three inches of height out of the box, and retain the clasp/lid for waterproof-ness. Going to weld the box and h20 mounting brackets into one piece. Also have to mount the controller under the box, so mounting tabs need to be incorporated as well.

gonna try to fry some bacon this week end

got started on the battery box mount. have to head over to Lowe's to get some more metal for the upper section of the box. Gonna source some 90 degree angle steel.

some pics:

1-1/4" flat bar stock.
View attachment khsebike 011.jpg

mounting to the h20 cage bolts
View attachment khsebike 012.jpg

probably add some gussets at the "v" near the bb shell.
View attachment khsebike 013.jpg

probably get back at it tomorrow night after work. next up: chop the ammo can down, create the upper section of the mount with the angle steel. I think I am going to weld some nuts on the inside of the ammo can, and poke some mounting holes through the outer faces of the angle iron so that I can run either a can that hold one battery, or a full size can that holds two. At first I though I would weld it all together, box, rack, mount, etc, but a modular approach gives me some room to change things up without too much re-work.

peace,

len

got tray that holds the can fabbed up tonight. clean up the welds tomorrow or monday. Weld everything together and install gussets... Then the can gets chopped..
View attachment khsebike 014.jpg
View attachment khsebike 015.jpg

...forgot how much i enjoy fiddling with these ebikes.. already planning a major overhaul of my stealth bike.....

len

welded the upper section of the ammo can/batt box mount to the lower section. a few pics...

View attachment khsebike 016.jpg
View attachment khsebike 017.jpg
View attachment khsebike 018.jpg
can mock - up, pre-chop
View attachment khsebike 019.jpg



up next is gusseting the two joined sections and v-section near bb, then chopping the ammo can down, then creating attachment points between mount and ammo can.

have a four day week end coming up in a few weeks. Should have this buttoned up by then. I have an MC project I have to finish cleaning up and get some paint on as well. http://www.thechopperunderground.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43487&st=0
Hoping to get all the body work finished on it....

Len

ya i bought one of those tres terra callisto's the heinzmann is pretty loud pretty heavy and pretty weak... the front shimano dynamo also add 30% rolling resistance...kenda flame tires kind stink, and the controller only puts out 22a i think. the only good thing about the bike when i purchased it was the cruise control....i still need that on my second build the batteries they put in this bike are hewlette packard phylion 3.7v 10ah lithium stainless steel cells (that have a faulty bms) but not only that there cells are all marked with different manufacturers part numbers like they are mixed batches>? but i removed the bms on mine and found out that the cells are prone to getting unbalances really easy...and put out a weak 15amps for about 10% of thier rated capacity......needless to say the bike was a bad investment and i ended up selling the motor/controller/throttle and dynamo and scrapping the rest.....still use the batteries to power some portable speakers they work great with under 5a discharges without a bms...and the charger that came with it is really nice top quality.

skeeta - sounds like you bought a complete bike - what did you pay if you don't mind divulging? When did you buy it?


Len

little more progress - box has been chopped and tacked into place. welded nuts on the inside of the can, bolts/unbolts onto mount. need to weld her up tight tomorrow, eld some mounting tabs for the controller on the underside of the mount, add the gussets,.. and then primer and paint.

View attachment khsebike 024.jpg
View attachment khsebike 025.jpg


after that we wire her up and see what a turd this set up truly is -

remember - cruising, slow speeds, pedal 50%, bad weather, snow, slop, etc....

sorry havent logged in a few days but i paid $369.99USD on ebay free shipping stated that the batteries were factory defective like they were.

quick pic - decided to not gussets the welds on the batt mount. Once the paint is applied, the actual mount kind of disaapears abit. Picked up a nice brooks b17 standard. Went stupid and ordered a Lumotec CYO N Plus. Interested to see exactly how much light is generated from my front dynamo hub.hafta be stingy with batteries on this setup...


paint goes on the mount/batt box this weekend, probably sat. Should be wiring everything up by sunday night. More pics then!

Len

battery box is finished. Going to let everything dry tonight and wire her up tommorrow.



have some stick-on cable guides arriving in the mail monday in order to route the throttle wire and power leads to the hub.

I'm sure wind tunnel testing would clearly show the ammo can's aerodynamic ineffiencies, but for putzin around @ 15-20 mph it should be just fine. :|

fellas,

i've run into something I need a hand with. can't seem to get the controller/throttle to register "full" power on the indicator lights. Weird. All wiring is correct, and it just so happens that I have an extra throttle, controller, and battery pack, so I went about switching each component with the spare to locate the source of the problem, and the same issue has popped up with all configurations.

After making all the connections between the throttle/controller, controller/hub motor, I turn the "on" key to the "on" position. The throttle/controller combo has a funky pre-power LED rotation, and then the "Half" light indicator blinks and a beep continues until I turn it off. Power leads to the hub read 0.00 volts.

Battery pack voltage off a fresh charge is 41.0 volts. As I said, all connection are correct. Seems to me to be an issue between the controller and batt? What about the brake cut-off switches? I had a 40 amp fuse in the leads of each one of these packs for my fast bike, and thought that maybe if I replaced each with a 30 amp fuse it would make a difference, but nada.

Any ideas?

Len

so i just don't get it.... the batt packs fresh of the charger are 41 volts - I took a spearate throttle, controller, and battery pack and wired them up off the bike, and same issue. No power is available at the hub motor leads.

Is it possible that the peak 41 volt charge is causing the controller to not function? It seems odd if this is the case. The controller should be able to handle 0-48 volts, regardless of what the LED battery meter is doing.

Also just put my cordless drill batt pack to the throttle/controller set up @ 21.2 volts - same issue. I am assuming the "Half" led blinking and beeping controller are a diagnostic for something. Have to see if I can scrounge up a manual somewhere..