Fush's EBike Project #001

[Fush]

G'day Everyone

I have finally saved enough after living like a rat for the last 4-5 weeks to go on a spending spree for EV equipment.

I am just in the midst of getting my order together with Brett at SolarBBQ

I am going for
1x 5304 Rear Hub Kit
2x 36v 11ahr Lithium Polymer Batteries
1x CycleAnalyst (from ebike.ca)

I am tossing up weather to go with the 72v 35amp or the 20amp controller from ebike.ca. This will be the primary controller and the one that comes with the kit will be a backup as i don't praticually want to have to solder and then calibrate the CA to get it working.

There was also some warning on bretts site about using his batteries with more then 20amps, i will have to check if the 35amp controller will be safe.

(One thing that I have found out from ebike.ca is that I can set the power limit on the CA to say 200watts (Australian legal limit) and then have a switch in series with the throttle override line and turn the limit on and off with a switch, so in the event of been pulled over by a cop i can just hit a switch under say the seat, limits it to 200watts, show the copper on the CA that its limited to 200watts, and then hopefully be able to head off)

I am still trying to figure out a lighting solution, i want to put either halogen or Luxeon lights on the front...probably two and then maybe a red one at the rear (have it connected via a relay to turn on when i pull the brakes)...I just have a feeling 72volts will make them go up in smoke, I maybe able to put resistors on the Luxeon lights but then again I have no idea if they would be able to handle 72v even with resistors (and on top of that they would get bloody hot). I should probably reread the lighting thread but if anyone has any ideas how to wire either halogens or LEDs up to 72v please let me know.

Anyway below is some photos of my bike and my new horn that i made over the APEC weekend (everyone left fortress Sydney for the long weekend and my work was deserted as a result, and therefore i got bored and started marking stuff), thanks to BiGH who suggested the idea.

P.S. does anyone know where to get handle bar mounts, like the one seen on my new horn, i canalised my old bell to get that, but it would make life a lot easy if I got a couple so i can mount lights etc...

P.P.S. Can anyone suggest any good parcel racks for dual suspension bikes, i don't mind if i have to order from overseas.

enjoy


Andrew

[The7]

Excellent choice of power and speed for 5304.
5304 will lost its strong points if 35A controller is not used.

[safe]

Do you plan to actually build anything?

It looks like you are just buying off the shelf items and assembling a bike.
I'm not sure if this counts as a "project bike" in that it seems too mainstream.
Beagle123, Dirty D and myself are all doing "project bikes" with all kinds of exotic and crazy stuff in them.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing,
but your posting title makes it looks like you want to categorize yourself with us...

I'm not sure we want to allow you in our exclusive club!

[The7]

He is in Xyster's club!?

[safe]

He is in Xyster's club!?

Xyster named his thread:

"Xyster's X5"

...maybe the name could be changed to:

"Fuch's X5"?

[xyster]

Do you plan to actually build anything?

It looks like you are just buying off the shelf items and assembling a bike.
I'm not sure if this counts as a "project bike" in that it seems too mainstream.
Beagle123, Dirty D and myself are all doing "project bikes" with all kinds of exotic and crazy stuff in them.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing,
but your posting title makes it looks like you want to categorize yourself with us...

I'm not sure we want to allow you in our exclusive club!

The thread says "ebike project". And it's an ebike project. The project part is selecting the components and assembling them, just like you do on your projects, Safe. So you welded a specialized frame too -- BFD -- you didn't mine the ore, you didn't build the batteries from scratch. So not much difference besides all the extra, arguably unnecessary, time and expense to weld a custom frame and coat it with stucco, or bondo, or whatever goop-o that is you use.

As for the controller, definitely 35A or 40A. If the batteries or their BMS can't take it, parallel a string of high power density cells like the A123s.

[Lowell]

5304 w/ lipos = get the 35 amp controller. If you want hardware current limiting you can easily install Fechters mod from the controller thread.

[fechter]

Do you plan to actually build anything?

It looks like you are just buying off the shelf items and assembling a bike.
I'm not sure if this counts as a "project bike" in that it seems too mainstream.
Beagle123, Dirty D and myself are all doing "project bikes" with all kinds of exotic and crazy stuff in them.

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing,
but your posting title makes it looks like you want to categorize yourself with us...

I'm not sure we want to allow you in our exclusive club!

.

Permission to ignore Safe granted...
The title of the thread is fine.

As far as running your lights, other options are:

use a battery tap to get a lower voltage for the lights. This results in a slight imbalance in the pack. May or may not be a problem.

dc-dc converter - that would be my preferred option, but it can be hard to find one that's affordable. You can build a switching converter using a National Semiconductior "Simple Switcher" chip, but they're limited to 60v.

use a bunch of lights all in series to match the pack voltage. Your bike might look like Xyster's with all those lights on it.

[safe]

It was a joke... just to make sure everyone realizes that...

This messageboard is a club open to all that like electric bikes and motorcycles...

Unless you live in Hawaii... um... okay... shouldn't have brought that up...

[xyster]

It was a joke... just to make sure everyone realizes that...

Because it's almost always plausible, and so provides plausible deniability, that's the perfect excuse to use anytime a statement or trial balloon explodes in your face. And this is a rebuttal.

"I was only joking, you humorless rubes!"
"No you weren't, you callous, deceitful SOB!"

Now the seeds of doubt are well sown on both sides.

[numberonekiwi]

fush for the lights maybe you could use a zener diode but I am not sure what the max current through them are although you possibly could use one through a high power transistor and build a simple circuit but it has been about 12 - 15 years since I done this sort of stuff things are now almost as cheap to buy complete

[Fush]

oh dear...see what happens when post late at night..then wake up 8hours later.....

Safe as much as i want to mod my bike, which i would love to dearly do, i have none of the equipment required, have none of the skills required, none of the money required, but I do have Ideas. Not that ideas count for anything if your not going to do anything.

Anyway I am still waiting for a reply from Brett, its a bit odd because he is usually very quick with his replies.

Current limiting for the motor will run off the CA, I just imagine that if I ever had to run it with the limiter on, how incredibly slow it would be.

Anyway down to the voltage issue (cringe)

I am doing some research atm in regards to that and hopefully will have an answer soon. Dam you 72volts....everything is fine to you get past 60volts..

Andrew

[fechter]

fush for the lights maybe you could use a zener diode but I am not sure what the max current through them are although you possibly could use one through a high power transistor and build a simple circuit but it has been about 12 - 15 years since I done this sort of stuff things are now almost as cheap to buy complete

That's not a bad idea. The circuit is pretty simple. Basically the same thing that regulates the voltage inside most controllers. A zener, a transistor (up to 400v!) and a resistor is pretty much it. I'll post a schematic when I get a chance. It's not any more efficient than a big resistor. The transistor will get really hot and need a big heatsink, depending on current. It does have a very wide input voltage range and regulates, so the lights won't change brightness as the batteries lose juice.

I used this circuit to power my digital panel voltmeter.

[Fush]

(This is really embarrassing, I work in an electronics shop (Jaycar) similar to radioshack and while I can sell you the component and speakers and kits...I completely suck at understanding circuits and components, I can solder and build kits by follow instructions but actually understanding what each component does and how it should be applied I completely suck at it)


ok now that's out of the way, down to business
fletcher that sounds great...



i am guessing that's what you meant

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... nereg.html

any suggestions on what type of transistor I should use, obviously a big one? The one i am looking at atm is MJL21193
its stats are TO-264, 200W, 250Vc 16A Ic 25/75 hFE min/max and 8a Ic cont.

would that do that job?, the price is high for them something like $11AUD but really its not a huge amount and i can get them on staff discount

Zener Diodes
I can get my hands on quite a range, but what would work best...i am guessing the higher wattage ones would supply more power? I can get 12v Zeners in 1 and 5 watts

And i guess i can work the resisters out from the site above, I take it the resister figures won't change even with the transistor in there?

Regards

Andrew

[Fush]

oh and i almost forgot i probably need a dirty big heat sink on that transister

[fechter]

Yes, that's the right circuit.

I would recommend using a Darlington transistor or make a darlington pair from two descrete transistors. This allows a lower current in the zener.

If you know what the load current is, and what the voltage drop will be, then you can calculate the amount of power that will be dissipated (wasted) by the heatsink. This will give you a good idea of how big the heatsink needs to be.

The zener diode needs to be about .7v higher than the desired output voltage to make up for the drop in the transistor. If you use a darlington, the zener needs to be about 1.4v higher. You can look up the datasheet on the transistor and get the exact voltage drop.

The MJL21193 sounds like overkill, but sometimes overkill is good.

How much current do you want it to handle?

I had another whacky idea; at 72v, you're getting close to where you could use a common switching mode power supply made for 120vac. Some of them tolerate low input voltage better than others. They are pretty cheap and come in a variety of output voltages. Most of them are isolated too, which is not necessary, but handy sometimes. They would certainly be more efficient and give off way less heat at high current. You might be able to find a common variety and change a resistor or something to make it work on 72v.

[Fush]

All right things are starting to work

Just been out to my good local bike shop....(there are a number of bad local bike shops in my area.) And got myself a nice set of wheels for my conversion (GT Outpost) Steel frame but no disks but the V brakes are good quality and seem to stop the bike very quickly. Second hand but just been serviced, brand new gears, brand new derailer, new changes and only for $340AUD which isn't bad for AUS prices (The bike retailed for over $1000 a few years ago)

I am currently in contact with Andy from FalconEV about two 36v 12amp 5C LiFePO4 and I have an order about to go through with Ebike.ca in regards to getting

1x 72V 40A Start Immediate Controller
1x 26 inch 5304 Rear Wheel.
1x Crystalyte Half Twist Throttle
1x Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst

Hopefully will have everything setup by the end of October/November


Andrew

[Beagle123]

That will be quite a set-up. You should get great performance.

From what I understand, you might benefit from a smaller wheel. Xyster reduced the size of his wheel with great results. Look at the thread for his bike. He has charts and graphs so it must be right.

He went down to a 20 inch wheel, which we both figure is just about perfect. He has a top speed of about 40mph even with the smaller wheel.

[Fush]

Ok well the order is set with ebike.ca...just waiting for the money to transfer into my credit/debit account from my savings account before I press the pay button on PayPal....

I am also waiting for a reply from Andy at FalconEV, he's been really good keeping me in the loop as to what is going on so far, just waiting for a shipping quote atm...However I have to wait for my tax return to rock up before I can pay for that but that should be here next week.

On a side note, it appears that I will be trying a segway out for the first time on Sunday. Not that I personally want one, but my father had a stroke two years ago, he can walk fine, but long distances really tire him out.

He doesn't want a mobility scooter especially since he gave me permission to run him over if he ever got one. So he wants me to go with him when he tries it at Sydney Olympic Park...They are illegal to use on public roads in Australia and can only be used on private property, or in special circumstances they can be used on the footpath for mobility use.

[xyster]

He has charts and graphs so it must be right.

Yes! Charts, graphs and powerpoint presentations seem a very popular way to enhance the perception of validity, as opposed to simply the illustration of data and concepts. Safe tries to turn his charts into a religion.

I love the 20" wheel. Matching speed to gearing is essential for wringing maximum performance out of any single-geared system. In my experience, gearing -- by way of wheel size and winding type for a hubmotor -- for 5mph over the highest needed real-world speed (as opposed to no-load speed) is optimal because electric motors lose all their torque at the top end, which is the speed-limiting physics factor. My 5304/20" has a max speed of 40mph at 84v (full charge), but it begins hitting the wall at 35mph; acceleration beyond 35mph is slow. But 35mph is all the faster I care to ride my bike in my normal riding environment, and it's a full 2 seconds quicker to 30mph than with the 24" wheel (10 seconds versus 12 seconds).

[Fush]

Hehe 60km/h sounds good

Anything faster and i would probably be knocking people over, the bike lanes here are getting crowded as it is. The problem is at least on my route to University, the road is a mini motorway and bikes of course are not allowed so I have to take the bike lane, but this is shared by people walking and running to and from the city, and even one person can take up an entire lane, usually you can ride two abreast in each lane but if somebody walking is in the centre of the lane there isn't enough room to overtake on the inside...if you try most case will end up been bike meets wall, and overtaking on the outside is only possible when its clear going the other way, they also recently changed the signage from pedestrians look out for bikes stay left to bike give way to pedestrians, and now the pedestrians who are deeply outnumbered by the bike riders just do whatever they please and get in the riders way.

Oh Xyster, guess what i saw again for the second time, that crazy pink scooter/bike. I still think its fugly, but the thing that makes it worst is how incredibly slow it is. I was following it up the ANZAC Bridge (second biggest bridge in Sydney) and it was going full speed motor only, and i was easily able to keep up and overtake it, I would have taken a video with my camera/phone/mp3 player/gps/speedo/web gadget (Nokia N95) but it was in the back of my backpack instead of its usual easy to reach side pocket. (not sure what the exact speed was, I was taking my new bike out today and it doesn't have a speedo on it, I plan to use my N95 in coop with the CA when I get around to buying a bike mount for it.

anyway hopefully next month i will give it a run for its money

[Fush]

Woot money transferred from my savings account and is now a few thousand kilometres away in Canada

[Ypedal]

Sweeeet !!!

That's going to be a fun ride for sure !

I support the 20" wheel idea, but your V brakes won't work with a smaller wheel.. doh...

Does the frame have Disk mounts ?

[Fush]

nah its an older steel frame bike, pre disk brake popularity

But I don't mind the brakes work well and we will have to wait and see what its like in the 26" rim

[Fush]

Got some 45amp andersons ordered from powerwerx, they where cheaper then what i could get them for at work(staff price) and at a higher amp rating, plus they came in more colours , we do have ones at work that can handle more amps, but they are the same that BiGH got with the huge connectors.

Got a reply from FalconEV,
2x 36v 12amp LiFePO4 Battery Packs at 5C
$700US Each and about $344US for shipping

Got to wait till I get paid next week to pay Andy