E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Kepler]

Kepler,
The machine did surprise me. The first time after I cut the wire on the CA to get full power, I took it out. I blipped the throttle from dead stop and almost slid off the seat. I was surprised. Torque from dead stop is impressive. For a brief moment, I think the bomber feels like my 450 right off idle. I love the bike. The one thing about the DNM shock that also surpised me is I can feel each click of the rebound, noticably. It lets you know if your are too slow or too fast very easly. To bad my KTMs aren't that obviouse. Can't find any DNM recommendations for rider static sag so I am going to set the Rider static sag at 2.75" based on 10" rear wheel travel with the compression turned half way out on top of the shock. Then I can use the compression knob for fine tuning. I calculated this sag based on my dirt bike setup. I run between 4 and 4.25" rider static with 13" of total travel. I sprayed some Boeshield t-9 on my fork tubes and compressed the forks a couple of times. It was much smoother instantly. The weight doesn't bother me, I am used to riding and lifting 250-275+ pound dirt bikes around so the bombers 116 pounds feels light to me. I know what you are saying though with the rear wheel though, when I popped the lid of the shipping crate, I reached insided, grabbed the bomber and lifted up and out. The rear was heavier than I was expecting it to be. Bottom line, it was worth the wait. With the wire curt, my CA was preset set at 65 Amp draw and 70volts LVC respectively with set wheel at 2055. My battery fully charged is 81.6 volts, (still breaking in) and rated for 18ah). Thats like 1450-1470 WA. While im breaking in the battery, I am going to keep my discharge to around 1050 WA for margin of error and no top speed runs. Lots of people on this forum have posted the importance of breaking in Lipo/Lipo4. Seems like the more I learn about lipos and lipo4s, the less I know. I am really happy with bomber in stock trim. Before I got it, I had all of the plans to modify it such as venting the hub, lipo conversion to 18s 3p with 8300 mAH desire lipos, and increase the power output to 7.5 KW or 100 Amp @ 75 volts. Now I am not touching it. Its fine the way it is and I need to educate myself more about Lipos and electrical knowlege and theory in general before I screw around with my bomber.

Rix

Sounds like you have suspension all under control. I think I will wait for your recommendations as it sounds like you have some good experience in this field.

Very true about not needing to modify the bike. The batteries used in the Bomber (and Fighter) will put out nearly as much power as LiPo's and as only slightly heavier plus they are super safe. Pointless changing them. My Bomber came with Headway cells that are quite a bit heavier which was the man reason I went to LiPo.

Motor wise, 54xx motor is well within its limits at around 5kW. I run 10kW through mine without a problem even after 5000ml.

If you want more power, once the bike comes out of warranty, the existing controller can easily be modified and re programmed to add a few more kW. Cheap and easy to do and no need to replace the battery.

[QMS]

Kepler,
The machine did surprise me. The first time after I cut the wire on the CA to get full power, I took it out. I blipped the throttle from dead stop and almost slid off the seat. I was surprised. Torque from dead stop is impressive. For a brief moment, I think the bomber feels like my 450 right off idle. I love the bike. The one thing about the DNM shock that also surpised me is I can feel each click of the rebound, noticably. It lets you know if your are too slow or too fast very easly. To bad my KTMs aren't that obviouse. Can't find any DNM recommendations for rider static sag so I am going to set the Rider static sag at 2.75" based on 10" rear wheel travel with the compression turned half way out on top of the shock. Then I can use the compression knob for fine tuning. I calculated this sag based on my dirt bike setup. I run between 4 and 4.25" rider static with 13" of total travel. I sprayed some Boeshield t-9 on my fork tubes and compressed the forks a couple of times. It was much smoother instantly. The weight doesn't bother me, I am used to riding and lifting 250-275+ pound dirt bikes around so the bombers 116 pounds feels light to me. I know what you are saying though with the rear wheel though, when I popped the lid of the shipping crate, I reached insided, grabbed the bomber and lifted up and out. The rear was heavier than I was expecting it to be. Bottom line, it was worth the wait. With the wire curt, my CA was preset set at 65 Amp draw and 70volts LVC respectively with set wheel at 2055. My battery fully charged is 81.6 volts, (still breaking in) and rated for 18ah). Thats like 1450-1470 WA. While im breaking in the battery, I am going to keep my discharge to around 1050 WA for margin of error and no top speed runs. Lots of people on this forum have posted the importance of breaking in Lipo/Lipo4. Seems like the more I learn about lipos and lipo4s, the less I know. I am really happy with bomber in stock trim. Before I got it, I had all of the plans to modify it such as venting the hub, lipo conversion to 18s 3p with 8300 mAH desire lipos, and increase the power output to 7.5 KW or 100 Amp @ 75 volts. Now I am not touching it. Its fine the way it is and I need to educate myself more about Lipos and electrical knowlege and theory in general before I screw around with my bomber.

Rix

Sounds like you have suspension all under control. I think I will wait for your recommendations as it sounds like you have some good experience in this field.

Very true about not needing to modify the bike. The batteries used in the Bomber (and Fighter) will put out nearly as much power as LiPo's and as only slightly heavier plus they are super safe. Pointless changing them. My Bomber came with Headway cells that are quite a bit heavier which was the man reason I went to LiPo.

Motor wise, 54xx motor is well within its limits at around 5kW. I run 10kW through mine without a problem even after 5000ml.

If you want more power, once the bike comes out of warranty, the existing controller can easily be modified and re programmed to add a few more kW. Cheap and easy to do and no need to replace the battery.

Hi Kepler. I and some friends are very interested in the simple controller power mods you described for the bomber. I really want to leave the stock battery alone as it is a great "all rounder" i think. I would love a little bit more ooomph without modding too much!!!! This info would be awsome

[Cowardlyduck]

I added some double sided padded tape to my side panels to fix and improve a few things.

Doublesided tape

30062012076.jpg (99.28 KiB) Viewed 623 times

Double sided tape on Fighter panel

30062012079.jpg (140.48 KiB) Viewed 623 times

I found battery the leads inside the shrink wrap were getting a bit squashed on the side panel, so this moves the panel out slightly to help with this.

Battery leads squashed

30062012073.jpg (78.58 KiB) Viewed 623 times

It also prevents the bolts from coming loose as they have a constant slight pressure.

And you can put the side panel on without any bolts to hold it now.

Panel without bolts

30062012080.jpg (144.29 KiB) Viewed 623 times

Other advantages are that little to no dust can now enter through the edges of the side panels, as well as no water droplets working their way through now.

Both panels

30062012078.jpg (125.51 KiB) Viewed 623 times

You could probably achieve the same with single sided padded tape as well, but this is just what I had on hand.

Cheers,

[Kepler]

Hi Kepler. I and some friends are very interested in the simple controller power mods you described for the bomber. I really want to leave the stock battery alone as it is a great "all rounder" i think. I would love a little bit more ooomph without modding too much!!!! This info would be awsome

Check this thread out. Basically all the info you need. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31643

I really like the mod using the trim pot. (Courtesy of Big Moose)

currentSenseTrimpot.jpg (59.66 KiB) Viewed 615 times

This gives you some control over the shunt total resistance and allows you to fine tune max current without the need to use the programming tool. It should be noted that increasing the current limit also gives you more re-gen and of course voids your warranty.

[veloman]

What brand lifepo4 does Stealth use? at 18ah, they must be pretty decent cells for that kind of power and reliability. A123? I never heard of them mentioned so I think it's someone else?

[QMS]

Hi Kepler. I and some friends are very interested in the simple controller power mods you described for the bomber. I really want to leave the stock battery alone as it is a great "all rounder" i think. I would love a little bit more ooomph without modding too much!!!! This info would be awsome

Check this thread out. Basically all the info you need. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31643

I really like the mod using the trim pot. (Courtesy of Big Moose)

currentSenseTrimpot.jpg

This gives you some control over the shunt total resistance and allows you to fine tune max current without the need to use the programming tool. It should be noted that increasing the current limit also gives you more re-gen and of course voids your warranty.

Cheers Kepler! Yes warranty is VERY IMPORTANT but i have some clients/mates that just have to fiddle, plus really needed a simple low cost mod for MY future fiddling. I must have missed that thread

[Rix]

Sounds like you have suspension all under control. I think I will wait for your recommendations as it sounds like you have some good experience in this field.
Very true about not needing to modify the bike. The batteries used in the Bomber (and Fighter) will put out nearly as much power as LiPo's and as only slightly heavier plus they are super safe. Pointless changing them. My Bomber came with Headway cells that are quite a bit heavier which was the man reason I went to LiPo.
Motor wise, 54xx motor is well within its limits at around 5kW. I run 10kW through mine without a problem even after 5000ml.
If you want more power, once the bike comes out of warranty, the existing controller can easily be modified and re programmed to add a few more kW. Cheap and easy to do and no need to replace the battery

Thanks Kepler,

I appreciate everything. Just saw the wiring diagram. How much increase in KW does the mod put out? It looks simple enough. I have some additional questions and will send you a PM. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge.

Rix

[QuaziModo]

Woohoo! Fighter is on its way!

Just back from NZ and unpacked the Fighter. Threw it together but there was no user manual etc. is that normal? I googled it and found one on a strange website but it wasn't of great detail, is there a real manual somewhere which is up to date?

[Rix]

Quazi,

Just got my bomber a few days ago, no manual with it. I called the US Stealth Rep Darrin and asked him about it. He told me that due to R&D updates, Stealth doesn't have a manual, but encourages their customers to contact for questions. As Cruzxia pointed out to me on the last page, check break alignment and adjust accordingly. Also the rear axel nuts are torque spec'd to 45nm. I know the Fighter uses a HS3540 hubbie and not the X5, but I am not sure about the axel nut torque specs for the HS. For the bomber, I am in the process of putting a list together for all chasis related torque specs. When I have it, I will post here. Basically the list will show specs for swing arm bolts, upper and lower shock bolts, Axel nuts, RST Tripple clamp bolts, Vboxx crank arms. The small stuff like down hill handlebar stem and fork tube plug cap, seat post clamp, I am just going to tighten by feel. The RST manual that was included with bomber did show torque specs for the RST front fork axel shaft and locking nut. Listed both as 12-15 nm for the RST One and Storm. Hope this helps,

Rix

[Kepler]

Here is a copy of the 2011 manual. It is a bit lite-on in relation to info but in combination with the various component manuals, I think it gives you enough basic info. I think one of the reasons a detailed manual with exploded views etc isn't provided is to make it more difficult to copy the bike.

For the most part, servicing the bike is not that much different to a normal bike anyway.

Perhaps if there are some specific areas that people fell strongly need documenting in the manual, we can list these and pass on the request to John.

Rix, that shunt mod will push the controller to self destruction if not set carefully. Basically it allows you to dead short the shunt which essentially means no current limit. Extreme caution is required if attempting this mod.

It will also throw out your CA calibration as the CA uses the controller's shunt resistance to carry out many of its calculations. This means its not practical to set up a pot on the bike that you adjust whenever you want to.

The mod is simple but you will need an external current measuring device to re calibrate the Cycle Analyst every time you make a change to the pot otherwise kW and Whr readings from the CA will be meaningless.

[Kepler]

Woohoo! Fighter is on its way!

Just back from NZ and unpacked the Fighter. Threw it together but there was no user manual etc. is that normal? I googled it and found one on a strange website but it wasn't of great detail, is there a real manual somewhere which is up to date?

I think you got that off Jim Kirk's web site. Jim Goes by the name of stealth_rider on this forum and is very active on the Googles group site. Check out his posts over on Google Groups. Lots of good info.

[robohead]

2012 new bomber owner here(#145). Upgraded from an A2B Metro.
I think my low voltage cutout is set too high @ 70V as I ran out of juice on my first day and did not go all that far. What do most of you set it to?

[Stealth_Bombering]

2012 new bomber owner here(#145). Upgraded from an A2B Metro.
I think my low voltage cutout is set too high @ 70V as I ran out of juice on my first day and did not go all that far. What do most of you set it to?

Until one of the other guys with more knowledge responds you may want to look at the below link. There is a post on May 9 2011 at 1:54 am that says the recommendation at that time was 72v. Maybe all you need is a full charge.
http://groups.google.com/group/stealth-electric-bikes/browse_thread/thread/5114ca9ddfd66a7c/cb1f3597c9a24b32?lnk=gst&q=lvc#cb1f3597c9a24b32

[Kepler]

robohead,

Congratulation on the new bike and welcome to the forum.

70V to 72V is correct for the CA. This is basically 2.9V to 3V per cell.

As Stealth_Bombering suggested, make sure the bike is fully charged then test it again. Make sure you zero the CA beforehand then at the end of the ride, take down the end voltage, ahrs used, Whrs and Whrs/km (or mile). Get back to us with this so we check if you have an issue that needs resolving. You dont need to use flattern the pack (its always better not to especially when brand new). We can still get an idea if there is a problem or not.

[Paul_G]

2012 new bomber owner here(#145). Upgraded from an A2B Metro.
I think my low voltage cutout is set too high @ 70V as I ran out of juice on my first day and did not go all that far. What do most of you set it to?

What were the KWH's used when it cut out? You should have seen 1470 area with a new battery.

You can cut out from two places, the CA as well as the BMS inside the battery.

I have my CA's low volt cut out set to 50 volts and let the BMS deal with it as the CA will only show you what the BMS allows. The BMS cuts the amps draw < 67.5 volts.

[cruzxia]

I have a 2012 Bomber the CA lo battery voltage was set to 69v at the factory. This will give full power when the battery gets low. I reset my level to 70v, this helps when the pack gets low as it limits the power/current draw from the battery, reducing the risk of the BMS shutting down the battery early. At 70v the output drops to around 3900 when the pack has delivered over 10Ah.

I will probably go back to 69v once I have 20 cycles on the cells.

Cruzxia

[cruzxia]

Rix

Be careful with the axle nuts, don't exceed 45 ft lb. Although the axle is 14mm, with the flats removed the tread area is the same as an 8mm bolt. The NY lock nuts are soft, and should only be used a few times.

I had a problem with the axle slipping backwards on the brake side when braking over bumps. I filed some grooves in the axle adjuster plate (the side that faces the swing arm) this gave it enough friction to prevent it slipping.

I replaced the NY lock nuts with flange nuts that I made up of carbon steel and hardened. This increases the thread area from 7mm on the NY lock nut to 17 mm on the flange nuts.
I will post some photos of the nuts tomorrow.


Cruzxia

[Kepler]

I have a 2012 Bomber the CA lo battery voltage was set to 69v at the factory. This will give full power when the battery gets low. I reset my level to 70v, this helps when the pack gets low as it limits the power/current draw from the battery, reducing the risk of the BMS shutting down the battery early. At 70v the output drops to around 3900 when the pack has delivered over 10Ah.

I will probably go back to 69v once I have 20 cycles on the cells.

Cruzxia

Totally agree with you on this one Cruzxia. You want the CA to act as a buffer. With the pack close to the end of its charge a handful of throttle is likely to sag the voltage to the BMS cutoff point. I think what Paul is doing as an experienced Bomber rider is nursing the bike with careful throttle management as it gets closer to its end voltage. You will probably get a few more miles out of the bike by doing this. I prefer to let the CA take care of this automatically and I would recommend that new owners do the same.

The more conservative you are with the CA setting, the better life you will get out of the pack. However, the BMS cut out point of 2.8V per cell is still quite reasonable for overall longevity.

Look forward to seeing the lock nut solution you have in mind. I must admit, I havent had any issues with the standard nuts loosening off or stripping due to excessive tightening. That being said, I am alway open to improvements

[cruzxia]

Hi All
Attached is a photo of the flange nuts, there are no washers needed and they do not loosen, I torque them to 45 ft lb.
The nuts are 17mm wide and threaded all the way through, so there is a large thread surface area.

Cruzxia

[Cowardlyduck]

The more conservative you are with the CA setting, the better life you will get out of the pack. However, the BMS cut out point of 2.8V per cell is still quite reasonable for overall longevity.

Look forward to seeing the lock nut solution you have in mind. I must admit, I havent had any issues with the standard nuts loosening off or stripping due to excessive tightening. That being said, I am alway open to improvements

I saw my Fighter voltage drop to 43V the other day. So that's 2.6825V per cell. Is that normal? I do generally use the CA as a LVC and then lower it when I've got some distance to get home still. I was lowering it volt by volt to get home till about 43V before I finally got home. WH used was 976. AH used was 19.5.

I had a problem with the axle slipping backwards on the brake side when braking over bumps. I filed some grooves in the axle adjuster plate (the side that faces the swing arm) this gave it enough friction to prevent it slipping.
Cruzxia

I've had a fair bit of trouble with my axle nuts as well. I noticed Stealth have now switched from the standard nuts to nylocks which seem to help. The main issue I had was exactly the same as you Cruxia. The whole wheel and torque-plates together were slipping backwards under heavy braking and Regen. It seems to have lessened since I tighten the hell out of the nuts now though. I most probably (no definitely) exceeding the 45 ft lb torque on them though. Don't have a torque wrench. I basically put all my weight on the spanner, after John recommended that I REALLY tighten them...haven't had any issue with doing that yet though...and it's a small spanner.

Cheers

[Kepler]

I saw my Fighter voltage drop to 43V the other day. So that's 2.6825V per cell. Is that normal? I do generally use the CA as a LVC and then lower it when I've got some distance to get home still. I was lowering it volt by volt to get home till about 43V before I finally got home. WH used was 976. AH used was 19.5.

Cheers

I am not sure if the packs from the Bomber and Fighter come from the same place and as such they may well have different BMS cutout thresholds. 2.6V per cell is not an unusual BMS setting for a LiFe PO4 pack. Typically the absolute max discharge point is 2V but it does depend on the cell manufacturer. Sounds like you got close to the maximum discharge of that pack.

How many more km did you squeeze out of the pack by lowering your CA threshold?

[remf]

Hi All
Attached is a photo of the flange nuts, there are no washers needed and they do not loosen, I torque them to 45 ft lb.
The nuts are 17mm wide and threaded all the way through, so there is a large thread surface area.

Nut1.jpg

Nut2.jpg

Cruzxia

They look very solid cruzxia! The new stock nylocs are good so far but yours are the best I've seen. Where did you find them?

[Cowardlyduck]

How many more km did you squeeze out of the pack by lowering your CA threshold?

About 10km.

I should also note that I was also limiting amps draw to about 3-5 amps once I hit the first LVC (47V) of the CA, so about 150-200W, which was enough with pedaling to maintain 25kmh+.
I hit the first CA threshold at about 70km, then by lowering it bit by bit and keeping amps draw low, I managed to get home with a total distance traveled of just over 80km. So an extra 10km isn't too bad. .
This was on flat cycle paths mind you. I don't think it would be possible get even half that on mountainous or off-road terrain.

I could really see the voltage cliff talked about in action as I kept drawing power from the pack. Towards the end, I had to lower the CA LVC every 1km or so.
Cheers

[Kepler]

With my Bomber having have had a bit of a birthday recently, I thought I would take the opportunity to put an acceleration run up on YouTube to demonstrate the sort of acceleration 10kW plus gives you. My apologies for the video quality. You need to run it in 480dpi to read the screen. If you look carefully you can see the bike is drawing over 11kW for much of the run.

[cruzxia]

Wow Kepler your Bomber is quick, very nice.

As for the flange nuts, I couldn't find any in my local town, so I made them from carbon steel on my mill and lathe, and then hardened them. I went down a spanner size to keep them a bit lighter.

Cruzxia