MAC motor + Trek 4300 build

[neptronix]

nah, just the standard stuff that came with the MAC motor.

[Alan B]

The grooves in stock hubmotor nuts often look somewhat like NordLocks, but they are only attempts at one way ridges. They may help but don't have the features of the NordLock - that requires the system to get tighter before it can loosen, which tends to keep it where it is, in a little "valley" at the low energy point, and not loosen.

I got some NordLock washers at Mcmaster Carr.

[neptronix]

Thanks for the feedback, i saw the thread on those, but i think with the torque plates they are not necessary.
No axle rotation is possible, and the torque plates are certainly overspecced for my power level ( below 2000watt )

The pictures don't show it, but the dropout angle is at a backwards rake of an angle, meaning that i'd have to be going backwards at a high speed over a jump with the axle nut loose in order to have the wheel fall off.

[wineboyrider]

Thanks for the feedback, i saw the thread on those, but i think with the torque plates they are not necessary.
No axle rotation is possible, and the torque plates are certainly overspecced for my power level ( below 2000watt )

The pictures don't show it, but the dropout angle is at a backwards rake of an angle, meaning that i'd have to be going backwards at a high speed over a jump with the axle nut loose in order to have the wheel fall off.

Yep. I agree. My bike might be a cheap one that I have my BMC motor on, but it's nice and secure in there.

[Danos]

Hey Neptronix, did the MAC 500w motor come as part of a complete kit from cell man or was it just a motor in wheel? I've had sporadic contact with cell man, he seems pretty busy. I'm after a complete kit with motor, rim, controller, throttle, etc for my first build...would rather buy a complete kit than peice it together from numerous different sources. Cheers.

[neptronix]

Hey Neptronix, did the MAC 500w motor come as part of a complete kit from cell man or was it just a motor in wheel? I've had sporadic contact with cell man, he seems pretty busy. I'm after a complete kit with motor, rim, controller, throttle, etc for my first build...would rather buy a complete kit than peice it together from numerous different sources. Cheers.

Yeah he is quite busy.
I got the motor in a rim, controller, and throttle all in one from him. He has been talking about making a kit but i think the gray gears are the holdup. I am sure he can sell you the same thing.

[Danos]

What speed wind is your MAC? Cell man told me he has a couple of different winds...one's good for about 50kph on 48v and the other about 40kph on 48v but slightly better for hill work. I'd be looking at the slower one to ensure good hill climbing performance.

[neptronix]

No flippin idea.
I am sure this is the 'default wind'. I did not ask him for anything special. I have a strong feeling that the '50kph on 48v' is what i have.

This must be a pretty decent all-around wind though because it climbs hills very well, and has good speed on the flats considering i am only running it on 10S lipo.

[neptronix]

Oh dear. I believe we have a new speed record.

Charged up a 15S lipo to 60v and put it on the bike.

Thanks to the 11t-28t DNP Epoch freewheel, i went 36mph pedaling today on a flat.
That 11 tooth gear really makes pedaling at over 30mph possible.

No pedal speed was about 32mph.

At this wattage, those torque plates are a lifesaver. The motor really wants to knock you back. Not wheelie power, but it will raise the front shock if you are leaning forward.

I see how geared motors can get killed at these voltages or above. That's a lot of torque to dump from a standing start.

I think i will go back to 37v/10S. I am happy with 23-29mph. 14S/15S is really more for show.

[neptronix]

Allright, well i had to do a 15S hillclimb test

Battery charged to 60v, after a little bit of hoonin' around earlier.





Gnarly, no?

There were lots of stoplights, so i was climbing said hill at 20-29mph.
I had no idea it would go this fast up the hill. The torque band on this motor is like the gift that keeps giving.

Peak amps were 43a, which is bad considering the Infineon is only set to 30/80a.. hmmmmm..

Motor case did not get even warm to the touch !! what ???
Controller got pretty damn hot, now i understand why people use the 12fet controllers !! overkill is a necessity!!
The poor 5AH lipos were kinda hot. I suppose a constant 8C draw is a bit much for them, or sitting next to a controller that you could fry an egg on could have been the cause.

Went through 4ah on that hillclimb. Brakes were smoking hot on the way down. Certainly a good stress test, lol.

[gensem]

Hi nep,

I also have a MAC 500w, that got the gears stripped very fast. Now im waiting for the new stronger gears from cell_man.
I have the torque version, wich does 43-44km/h with a 48v 15ah ping on straight.
In the first ride I did after setting the bike, my controller was set to 30/75 and the bike could climb everything I tried way faster that I could imagine (BMS was cutting hehe. Peaks where around 42amps).
So I lowered the config to 25/63 I think and it was running fine until the gears break.
I would advise you to lower the amps if you are using the white nylon gears just to be on the safe side.

regards.

[neptronix]

Thanks gensem, and welcome to the forums btw, notice you only got 2 posts as of writing.

Yeah i considered the gears issues before i bought the motor. I bought a spare set knowing damn well that i could easily strip these before cell_man comes out with the new gray gears.

I already have had the motor apart and it's quite easy to replace the gears actually. Not too worried 'bout it !

[gensem]

Im starting to guess that im not good changing the MAC gears, because I needed alot of time using the proper tool (dont know the name of the tool, its a 3 leg tool to pull the gears assembly out.) And it was damn hard to take apart.
In the end it didnt help much because my 9fet controller stopped working.
As you noticed the 9fet controller does get really hot doing hills in a sunny day. So i ll be ordering a 12fet

All in all, seens like a good hub motor and I ll be running it again as soon I have the stronger gears and the new controller.

Planning to run it on 20s lifepo4 using a 12fet controller set to 29a/87 phase = 49 amp I think

Shoulda render me alot of torque if I dont blow the motor at 3,2kw input peaks.
I dont have a Cycle analyst yet but ebikes.ca simulator is giving me figures of almost 3 hps (2,1kw)output power and 120 lbs of thrust.

My plan is to have a realiable commuter with 60v 45-50amp top speed of around 51-52km/h using the mac torque motor.
But I might be pushing a little.


Sorry for my bad english, but im Brazilian and I never had english classes.

[neptronix]

45-50 amps? you may want to upgrade the phase cables as they are, i believe, 16 gauge.. eat least on my motor O_O
( lots of power going through thin wires = resistance = heat )

Even 29a/72v, should be a blast!!

P.S. your english is quote good!

P.P.S. us.itselectric.ca sells a BMC/MAC spare gear + clutch set if you need one. It has a steel gear but the other 2 are original nylons. This would be great if you had one gear that survived the torture

[gensem]

my idea is to have the controller set to 29 and phase to 87 amps running at 60v.
I ll probably cut the phase wires near the axel and solder a 10/12 awg ones. Melting should be less likely with only 10 centimeter of thin wires.
Im trying to avoid the steel gears because they are too strong and might brake some teeths of central axel.
I ll post my results when i get all the parts together.
But this could take a while because brazilian customs are utterly slow.

[neptronix]

I agree about the steel gears. I bought the BMC assembly because i wanted an extra clutch unit and 2 nylon gears. The steel gears will be noisy and the one i received was not machined very well. It will make for a nice paperweight, but for $30 i am not complaining

60v/29a is good a power level that will probably last a long time on the right gears. I also think disabling the 'block time' if possible on the infineon will stretch out the life of the motor! the initial torque when you hit the throttle is too strong. Geared motors do not need that extra burst of power; their torque band is very long.

Here is a thread on the 'block time' setting.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18675&start=0

Also the 'current damping' setting may be of some help.

I am going to experiment with these settings when i get my infineon programming cable and post the results.

[neptronix]

Well, the ammo box is almost ready. The mounting is there, but we are waiting for the weather to improve to give it a proper paint job.





Fits 20ah of 10S lipo snugly with room to spare. Ammo box is not my dream box for sure, but it beats whatever i could hobble together.

[gensem]

I sense your fixing mechanism is a little weak.
I already dropped a battery at the street from my other bike back rack thinking it was rock solid.

[neptronix]

There is a strong steel platform below ( difficult to see ) that holds all the weight of the ammo box

the mount at the top is to prevent side to side motion only.

[Racer_X]

Can you post some pics of that steel platform your talking about? By the way I subscribed to this thread to keep updated on your progress, I think one of my next builds will be with a geared MAC or BMC motor. Nice job so far, your going to love it! Weight distribution and handling improves greatly when you have the batteries in the frame.

[neptronix]

Here ya go.





Also pending the black paint treatment as it's a bit ugly now.
And maybe some lightening as it's 1.5lb. Probably overkill!

[Racer_X]

Thanks for the pics, looks pretty sturdy to me. Is it going to be easy to remove the box(charging purposes)? Is it going to be easy to secure the box (theft proof)? The reason i ask is that my solution may be ugly but has worked really good to secure and remove and that is why i have not changed it's design since it was created November 2009.

[neptronix]

Thanks for the pics, looks pretty sturdy to me. Is it going to be easy to remove the box(charging purposes)? Is it going to be easy to secure the box (theft proof)? The reason i ask is that my solution may be ugly but has worked really good to secure and remove and that is why i have not changed it's design since it was created November 2009.

Yes and yes
Take the two screws off the top and pull to the side..

As for charging, i will have a plug coming out the side that will just need a disconnect/reconnect. No need to remove the box.

I needed a top-opening lid because the lipo needs to be checked from time to time. So that made things more complicated. If i did not have lipo, i would just hang the case off the top tube.

But i will never leave my bike unattended in a place i do not trust. No way! People steal bikes here in Portland all the time. Anything that is worth a dollar will get stolen.

I spent 9 months trying to figure out how to mount this battery. So glad to have a solution now.

Looks like you have a platform also?

[Racer_X]

Looks like you have a platform also?

Nah, just hangs off the top tube double wrapped with one of these luggage belts.

The bottom is being supported by a small screw that is supposed to fasten the water bottle holder.
Believe it or not, I have laid the bike down a couple of times and it has not damaged the battery, the belt managed to hold the battery secure. This project was a complete experiment and it has exceeded all my expectations. I hope that in my next build I can create a really nice and stealthy ride that hauls ass yet hard to tell that it is electric. Yours it looking that way, once you paint the ammo box it will be a little harder to tell what it is.

[Alan B]

Containing the batteries with a strong sealed box is dangerous. If they ever "vent" a strong box will convert the event to an explosion. You cannot contain the venting, and the box will fail most likely with the lid flying upward with a lot of force. An explosion can be prevented by having a large vent for the gasses to come out. A small vent may not be adequate. The vent may be sealed with tape or something that will easily open under pressure.

Be safe!