Keyne's DH Comp Build - now with liquid cooled HX35! :)

[keyne]

I read a few bits on this forum and a bit on a boat building forum regarding the heat treatment process. Basically I just tried it and it worked out pretty well.

[dbaker]

This is going to be a very nice build

[dbaker]

What brand of epoxy did you use? I have used a variety of boat epoxies and the West System products have a range of catalysts to allow curing in hot and cold conditions.

[keyne]

I've tried the CRC Ados range and Epiglass. Those are the only two in the shop I went to. Both seem to work similarly. They both seem to cure at any temp given enough time, but seem stiffer/stronger if allowed to cure at higher temps. They shouldn't go "soft" if exposed to higher temps later on.

[keyne]

My Crystalyte HT3525 motor arrived today! It's sensorless, so I'll need to install sensors - does anyone have a link to appropriate Hall sensors that are in stock somewhere?

[Andje]

ebike .ca has them. or you could go with digikey or mouser, they prbly both have them too.

[keyne]

Not much work been done recently - had to go rock climbing with my wife last weekend so couldn't do anything on the bike

If I was going to liquid cool this motor would cooling this part here (red "X"s - ignore callipers -lifted from Justin's photos) would that be sufficient to cool the rest of the stator - anyone know how well it is thermally coupled to the rest of the stator and windings?

17mm Axle.jpg (61.78 KiB) Viewed 859 times

Also regarding installing hall sensors to a sensorless motor - any fundamental reason why I couldn't feed the three thin wires through these gaps here - there is plenty of room.

The attachment 17mm Axle.jpg is no longer available

[keyne]

Ok, update: After a lot of sanding the panels are looking quite nice. I reconstructed the bike after my painting efforts and I'm really happy with the way it looks.

Final width between the knees will be about 118mm

The rest of my Lipo arrived last week, so I've got no excuses now

I put on a "marketing layer" of carbon fiber - (two layers actually) which I think looks cool and makes the panels nice and stiff

I built a make-shift oven with some cardpoard boxes, three 100W lightbulbs and lots of aluminium foil and tape

Just a pile of boxes?

I managed to ramp up the temperature over a few hours to 120deg C. Kept it there for 7 hours then ramped it back down over a few hours. The panel are now super stiff! I've got a lot of sanding to do this week to make it look how I want.

Anyone have any comments on my water cooling questions earlier?

[full-throttle]

Looking good!

Going to be one hell of an bike

Re: water cooling - not sure if its worth it, unless you want to empty your pack in minutes. Riding in bursts extends the range and keeps the motor in the safe zone. Just a thought..

[manitu]

What?? NO!! You didn't?? F**K!!! You had a original Manitou dorado in good condition , and you PAINTED it?? There's some downhillers here crying right now.
Man , oh man, I've would paid top dollars for that fork in mint condition.

That fork was taken back into production last year because people wanted it so bad. I envy you! (but wouldn't painted it, no way!
That fork is the closest you get to a moto-x fork for putting on a bike. Off course , you got the fox 40now , but those egg-shell thin lowers and a oil-change every 30 hours makes it a no-go for me. The new dorado is to expensive for me.

I'm in the planning stages of a DH-Team build , myself (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27043) but I'll settle for a Marzocchi fork. It's not at all a bad fork , but without the upside-down fork this frame is designed for , I'll have to settle for 170-180mm (7") travel on the forks not to upset the geometry.

Those dropouts looks nice , Is there any more of them available?

I'll be watching this build thread for shure!

.manitu

[full-throttle]

Current bike has:
190mm Front travel (Mazzocchi DC Shivers)

I'm pretty sure they are NOT Dorados

[manitu]

Oh , I notice now. Since the DH-team was delivered with a Dorado, I asumed it was one.
One thing anyway , inverted forks usually go a inch deeper in travel compared to normal forks , for a given axle/crown length. You might have troubble mounting anything under the downtube. open the top-caps , like you do to change oil. Then let the fork sit fully compressed with the springs sticking out of the tubes to check clearance. This is something everybody with a big tire in a inverted fork should do , to check that the tire clears the lower clamp.

.manitu

[flyinmonkie]

Not much work been done recently - had to go rock climbing with my wife last weekend so couldn't do anything on the bike

LOL, had to go? I wish my wife would tell me to go rock climbing. I should be doing lots of it owning a climbing gym. Had to go... *shakes head*

Where are in NZ? I'm in Wanaka.

The bike looks awesome, nice work.

Clay

[keyne]

What?? NO!! You didn't?? F**K!!! You had a original Manitou dorado in good condition , and you PAINTED it?? There's some downhillers here crying right now.
Man , oh man, I've would paid top dollars for that fork in mint condition.

Yeah, they're DC Shivers - still nice, but not that nice. I figured if they were good enough for the original SE Bomber they're good enough for this build.

dc shivers on bomber

bomber_shivers4.jpg (73.14 KiB) Viewed 699 times

One thing anyway , inverted forks usually go a inch deeper in travel compared to normal forks , for a given axle/crown length. You might have troubble mounting anything under the downtube. open the top-caps , like you do to change oil. Then let the fork sit fully compressed with the springs sticking out of the tubes to check clearance. This is something everybody with a big tire in a inverted fork should do , to check that the tire clears the lower clamp.

Thanks for the tip, I'll be running 24x3.0" tyres, so it is unlikely to be a problem.

LOL, had to go? I wish my wife would tell me to go rock climbing. I should be doing lots of it owning a climbing gym. Had to go... *shakes head*

Where are in NZ? I'm in Wanaka.

Yeah, she's training to become a mountain guide, so often needs a climbing partner. We're in Tekapo, so not far away. You have a climbing gym?!

[flyinmonkie]

Yeah, she's training to become a mountain guide, so often needs a climbing partner. We're in Tekapo, so not far away. You have a climbing gym?!

Nice. Yup, I own Basecamp Wanaka. Pop in if you are down this way, if you haven't already. It's funny how the world seems to get smaller every day.

Clay

[beast775]

excellent work,this bike is going to be top notch .

[keyne]

.

[flyinmonkie]

You'll probably recognise her surname - Braun-Elwert.

Can't say I've seen her in yet, but I'm sure she will be before long.

I like how you made your battery enclosure. I am working on one at the moment and deciding how I want to do it. I'll be watching to see how it all comes together.

Clay

[RichiePA]

Hey Keyne,

This is a really nice build, I have just started my first eBike project using a Giant DH team so i'll be watching your thread closely for hints and tips. I think the work you've done so far is absoloutly top draw! thats one hell of a bar you've set me.

I'm still in the very early stages so more planning than building but hope to get the parts on order soon. I'm in a bit of a dilemma at the moment as to which hub motor to go for I'm thinking X5 or HT or even a HS but i'm not too sure i've noticed you've started your build with an X5 but plan to swap it out for a HT. I'll be very interested to find out what you think of the HT compared to the X5 in direct comparison to each other.

Keep up the good work!

[keyne]

Quick Update: I haven't had a lot of time to work on it recently - due to a holiday and other factors.
I have managed to complete the side panels and "speedo-pod" (as my wife calls it) - I'm amazed how much sanding I had to do!
The panels just need another couple of coats of paint.
I've produced a large block of foam (using the side panels and frame as a mold) for mounting the batteries securely.
I've ordered the 6 pot gatorbrakes - they are on their way.
Should be able to post photos this weekend.

[Doctorbass]

keyne,

I have a friend who is making a copy of my Giant but with the HT motor.

he is a kind of Solidwork EXPERT and is modeling everything he think.. or just mind!!!

Here is the list of all cad he did for teh giant!!!.. I thought that might interest you and some other members!

( sorry it's in french but i guess you'll understand something anyway)

_dessin de l'ancien X5 hub-motor arrière avec disque
_dessin du nouveau hub-moteur (HT - HS) de Crystalyte arrière avec disque
_dessin du cadre principale (frame) du Giant DH Comp
_dessin du swing arm (frame partie arrière) du Giant DH Comp
_dessin des pièces mobiles pour la suspension (sur le frame) du Giant DH Comp
_dessin du porte dérailleur arrière du Giant DH Comp
_dessin de l'amortisseur du Giant DH Comp (Manitou Swinger SPV 6-ways coil)
_dessin du bearing (SS 6000 2RS Double sealed ball bearing 8 X 10 X 26mm) qui va sur le Giant DH Comp
_dessin du bearing (SS 6003 2RS Double sealed ball bearing 10 X 17 X 35mm) qui va sur le Giant DH Comp
_dessin d'une tige de selle (Easton Havoc 30,9mm X 350mm)
_dessin de la jante SUN Ringlé - Double Track 24'' 36 holes, ERD = 476mm Diam.= 507mm
_dessin d'un disque (de frein) 8'' avec 6 trous standard
_dessin de clamp quick release pour siège et roues
_dessin d'une roue avant complète (jante 24'' + pneu 24'' X 3.00'' Kenda Kraze + moyeux + disque + spokes & nipples)
_dessin d'un moyeu avant SUN Ringlé - Abbah SOS DH 36h
_dessin d'un dérailleur arrière (Shimano cage moyenne)
_dessin d'un pédallier complet avec pédales
_dessin de toutes les pièces impliquants mon kit de torque-arm
_dessin de plusieurs écrous, boulons et washer métrique McMaster
_dessin de rayons et nipples
_dessin de cassette 7 et 9 vitesses
_dessin de pneu (24'' X 3,00" Kenda Kraze)
_dessin de batteries A123 & Headway
_dessin du BMS TpPacks ver2.6
_dessin de plusieurs connecteurs circulaires militaires
_dessin d'un chaine et d'une maille
_dessin du boitier CycleAnalyst ver. 2.2
_dessin d'un contacteur KiloVac
_dessin d'un template en anglais pour le testeur de hub-motor de Lyen
_dessin de connecteur Anderson SB50 & SB350
_dessin du contateur Albright SW200
_dessin d'un Shunt 60mV 500A
_dessin d'un pot box Curtis PB-6
_dessin d'un moteur Advanced DC FB1-4001A
_dessin d'un relais Bosch 12V 30A
_dessin d'un controlleur Curtis 1231C-8601
_dessin d'un Voltmètre et Ampèremètre à aiguille Westburg
_dessin d'une batterie 6Vdc Trojan T105
_dessin de fusible variés et porte-fusible
_dessin d'une pompe à vacuum GAST - Vacuum Pump MOA 12Vdc MOA-V111-JH
_dessin d'un controleur Crystalyte
_dessin de différents terminaux électriques et jumpers
_dessin de Rail-DIN 15mm et 35mm
_dessin d'une grille de fan 60 X 60mm
_dessin d'un Brushless Fan NMB 2404KL-04W-B50
_dessin de tie-wrap, tie-wrap holder, borniers, ferrules et etc... (plusieurs autre chose)



Here is the file of the forque arm he did:

[Mark_A_W]

Hi Doc

I'm also a CAD user (it's my job), and I have the DH-Team, which soon will have a HT35 motor too.


I'd really like a copy of those files please! I can add my battery box, and tweak the dropouts, and I'd have a good model of my bike.

I'll send you a PM

Cheers

Mark

[keyne]

I was hoping to post a photo of my pretty panels this weekend, but I had a disaster. I had done all my careful preparation, sanding, priming, masking etc. I was just up to putting on some clear coats. 10 mins after the first clear coat, I went to check on them and the paint has gone all milky and starting to bubble! It worked as a reasonable paint stripper! So I spent the rest my spare time this weekend re-preping the panels to have another go! Quite a few backwards steps. I will have to ask more questions at the paint shop - we live and learn

The good news is that for the short time I had them mounted on the bike before the clear coat stage I think they looked pretty awesome!

[AussieJester]

I will have to ask more questions at the paint shop - we live and learn :D

Sorry to hear that you had painting probs, i have too many times.
Few things i have come to live by, never mix paint types i.e epoxy and acrylic
and never mix different brands of paint. Both can be done yes, but i have had
enough disasters in the past years that i won't risk it anymore. If you etch prime
and fill with acrylic, paint the colour and clear with the acrylic...same deal w for epoxy
two pack etc.

Hope you get it all sorted looking forward to seeing the finished job

KiM

[keyne]

Panels update:

I've got the panels to a state I'm happy with, they're not perfect, but I'm sick of working on them. If I did it again I would do it quite differently!

Here they are, please excuse the low quality pics and horrible carpet colour in my office. They look a lot cooler on the bike because the fit so well, but the bike is 300km from the panels at the moment and they won't be reunited for another week or so.

panels 001_s.jpg (151.41 KiB) Viewed 993 times

panels 002_s.jpg (93.75 KiB) Viewed 993 times

Pretty happy with how the "pod" came out - still a lot of work to do on my custom speedo though

panels 003_s.jpg (104.27 KiB) Viewed 993 times

This gives you a good idea of how it all fits together. The space for the controller is pretty obvious at the bottom - the void below the black section.

Thanks to fullThrottle for recommending marine grade polyurathane to stop UV degredation of the carbon fiber sections - and it didn't react with the paint!