"peak power" - Trek 4300 20" Magic Pie build.

[o00scorpion00o]

Nice one dave!

Isn't it mad how the mac can do 40 on only 16S!

I think the pie is a great motor and good enough for most people. It can take huge amounts of peak power for acceleration. Crazy hills like 16% are a bit much for any motor (a few miles) and not something most of us would be doing daily.

It pulls me up 30% + slopes in the woods, some of them look near vertical I'm putting 80 amps and 120 peak into a 26" wheel, so most of my power is torque, still at 30 mph it's fast enough. I can feel the front wheel lift going up a steep hill.

Dave, you would probably hit 53 mph with 120% throttle ?

I must admit 40 is my absolute limit on a bicycle, you need proper kit even at 40, 50 is a no no for me!

You are more brave than I , or crazier!

[JohnC]

The Dirty Thirty

[Sacman]

Neptronix,

Where did you get the long gopro support?

Looks like a handlebar Accessory "T" Rail for mounting extra stuff on your handle bars.
It's like having an extra 4 inches of handle bar to mount your stuff, only it sits about 4 inches away from your original handle bar.
Kinda like this http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... sBEPMCMAA#

[neptronix]

Neptronix,

Where did you get the long gopro support?

Sacman is correct

I used a minoura spacegrip.

http://www.amazon.com/Minoura-Spacegrip-2-Handlebar-Computer-Headlight/dp/B0064HLNPO/ref=pd_sbs_sg_6

Not as bad as the reviews suggest ( pain in the ass to adjust it, but if you adjust it right, you won't have problems! ), but there are better grips out there.

I paired that up with an old road bike brake lever, which i drilled a hole through and stuck a bolt into it.
I connected that bolt to the gopro tripod adapter.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=gopro+tripod+mount&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4061882306429069340&sa=X&ei=sJRdT5S7E-LQ2wWSmcD9Dg&ved=0CH4Q8wIwAQ

The gopro bicycle mount may be better though.

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4202763&emssrcid=GoogleBase:PS4202763

[neptronix]

scorpion: yeah, the pie is a stupidly low wind. the 8T MAC is kind of a high speed wind. I'd definitely like something that's right in the middle. Coincidentally, the 20" pie is the best motor i could have bought at the time ( no cromotor or Crystalyte 54xx on the horizon when i purchased it ), so for a pike's peak climb at an average of 25mph, it will do

If your front wheel is lifting up, i suggest you move your seat and handlebars forward as much as possible like i did. Remember how icecube57 crashed? unexpected power wheelie after the back wheel caught a bit of air.
At a peak of around 7kW ( much lower when cruising ), this bad boy has the potential to do the same thing.. so leaning on the front gives a good margin of safety.

I agree that 40mph is a bit too much. With no bike lanes out here though, it's nice to have that power, to keep up with cars and such. But i think this will ultimately lead to a motorcycle or car build later on.

I feel like it could be reliable at 40mph on the flats though, with some cooling modifications just to be safe. Perhaps i will rip it apart soon.

[JohnC]

Dave,
Thanks for turning us on to the Magic Pie. What power rating is your MP II? I see three MPs on the golden motor’s web site. I see a 1kw, 1.5kw and 2-3kw. Do you think the latter compares to coveted cromotor at half the price?

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

[o00scorpion00o]

the magic pie III internal controller is rated from 24-59 volts max hot off the charger. And 40 amps

The pie 2 external controller can take a lot of peak power for acceleration and hill climbing.

The cro motor can take more power continuously, so more power for hill climbing. Its also a faster wind than the pie, the pie is more than good enough for the average bicycle. The cromotor is also 2kg or so heavier.

major hills continuously over 2kw could be a problem. You need to monitor temps

[gensem]

John i think the MP is rated for under 1kw (but it can take alot more).

http://www.goldenmotor.com/magicpie/fea ... icpie.html

Its much taller but the magnet are thinner than a cromotor, I ll get one in a 24" wheel just to compare with a cromotor using the same controller and batteries. Im almost sure the aceleration ll be much slower.

[neptronix]

There is only one magic pie motor, and it's rated for "250W-1000W". It appears to come in only one wind, so the smaller wheels require lots of voltage. It does approx. 18mph on 36v on a 26" wheel. The MP3 handles the same amount of power as the MP2, but the internal controller is different.

gensem: Aw man, don't bother, it won't compare. At ~7kW peak, i am definitely getting close to, or touching the saturation point, i can just feel it, since the acceleration wasn't much better than the 4kW i was putting in previously. The cromotor hubzilla has so much more magnet, even though it's not as tall. I'm certain it will handle 15-20kW peaks before starting to saturate, and a kilowatt or two more continuous!

What i'm really excited about is the cromotor deep dish. 22% more magnet, but same diameter, maybe a bit taller. The only downer is the price.. around $500.. but.. i think it will whoop the crystalyte 53xx, at a much lower weight, and maybe even with better heat dissipation.

[gensem]

I think you are talking about the very tall motor there is still going to be released by the croatian crew... hella nice motor, but I can tell you it wont acelerate faster than the fat cromotor.
Im really hoping that Hal pull the trigger on something with 50-60mm magnet and taller than a pie.

[neptronix]

Yes, i'm talking about the taller one that was shown in Jeremy's videos. I call it the deep dish, just my nickname for it, since it is a similar diameter as the magic pie.



I don't think anything will beat the cromotor hubzilla for some time. Honestly, i really think the cromotor is pretty much "it" for ebike hub motors. Being able to do 50mph / 80kph or more constant is nice, but it's so far beyond the capabilities of what bicycle frames, brakes, suspension etc. are designed to do. If you want more power than that, just strap a big motor like the golden motor 10kW continuous "black can" that Liveforphysics is using, or equivalent, onto your bike and call it a day. It's really not a bicycle anymore after 40mph anyway

I keep going back and forth about having something more powerful than this motor. Do i need to go faster than the 40mph constant that this thing can handle? not really. But is it fast enough? well, nothing ever is..

[Accountant]

I think you are talking about the very tall motor there is still going to be released by the croatian crew... hella nice motor, but I can tell you it wont acelerate faster than the fat cromotor.
Im really hoping that Hal pull the trigger on something with 50-60mm magnet and taller than a pie.

We might, but Cromotor is more than good enought for daily commuters.

Anything stronger, faster, would be way to dangerous for bicycles.


Our hopes are that adequate controller will be avalable for Colossus soon, so we can start to offer electric motorcycles.

HAL is proffessional motorcycle frames constructor. He was not in the bicycles before Greyborg and Albino.


After that cars...

[gensem]

Accountant dont you think the Warp frame could hold a colossus?
Im asking because im saving my warp for the colossus.

[Accountant]

Accountant dont you think the Warp frame could hold a colossus?
Im asking because im saving my warp for the colossus.

shhh !!

of course it can, but is too big for bicycles.

There is smaller Colossus already mounted on one RC Greyborg.

[zombiess]

We might, but Cromotor is more than good enought for daily commuters.

Anything stronger, faster, would be way to dangerous for bicycles.

As much as I like crazy fast fast acceleration and bragging rights I must agree with Accountant. Anything more powerful than the Cromotor Hubzilla isn't really suitable or safe for bicycle use. Sure you can build something like Luke if you have the skill, but you will be going completely custom at that point and need the necessary skills to build and ride the machine. Even Luke admits he needs to make a mental commitment before getting on his bike, that is not a mass market product, but it is awesome.

The Hubzilla is about as big motor power wise as you can safely go in a bicycle setup and to understand what we are talking about you really have to experience the power it's capable of. Even I haven't felt the max yet because my bicycle just can't handle the extra power without turning it into a unicycle. The upside to this motor and the reason for it's existence is reliability and hill climbing without having to worry you will damage the motor. Yes, many of us who are buying these are power crazed, but that's not all this motor is good for. It's an awesome commuter. I ride mine to work all the time, but I turn the amp settings down to keep it a bit more civil and honestly I'm probably going to lower them again from 70A to 60A just so it's safer and more fun to commute on without having to worry about power wheelies.

[o00scorpion00o]

The upside to this motor and the reason for it's existence is reliability and hill climbing without having to worry you will damage the motor.

Yes you have hit the nail on the head there!

For me the only good thing the cromotor has over the pie is the fact it can take about 4kw constant and much more peak so will eat hills and survive!

The pie would be happy at 40 mph all day. But dumping 3kw in for 2 miles or so will get it very hot up a 16% hill, I don't think te cromotor would have issues with that.

The pie is also a super torque wind and slow enough where the cromotor is a faster wind.

The mac is a truly fantastic motor and I miss it something terrible, I think once the clutch is sorted, and the axle, keyway then it will be the ultimate motor up to 40 mph and it will happen as cell-man is committed to improving it all the time! It has taken me up hills so much faster than the pie with incredible torque all the way to 40 mph.

Again super hills are the enemy of smaller motors, but the mac's lightness, free wheeling, speed and torque and efficiency are what sets it apart from most other motors and what makes it my favourite motor for a bicycle that is!

[Golden Motor Canada]

Dave,
Thanks for turning us on to the Magic Pie. What power rating is your MP II? I see three MPs on the golden motor’s web site. I see a 1kw, 1.5kw and 2-3kw. Do you think the latter compares to coveted cromotor at half the price?

http://www.goldenmotor.com/

What are these different MP motors you are reffering to?

Gary

[Golden Motor Canada]

May be ordering the big black motor from you soon ^_^

Please keep in mind the 5kw and 10kw motors are intended for motorcycles and cars

Gary

[neptronix]

May be ordering the big black motor from you soon ^_^

Please keep in mind the 5kw and 10kw motors are intended for motorcycles and cars

Gary

Thank you for trying to talk some sense into me Gary, unfortunately i am a bad listener
But actually, i really just want the 5kW motor for it's heat dissipation. Not to run my bike at highway speeds like liveforphysics

Am going to point the magic pie up some nasty long grades soon, now that we are out of winter. If you see an order for a 5kW, you'll know it didn't survive, lol..

[chroot]

@neptronix - Gary doesn't want any liability to his business for letting you hand of powerful motor like Gary said it is sole purpose for motorcycle or cart use.



Go check the review. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37725

[neptronix]

I fully understand. Maybe Canada is like the USA where you can sue someone for looking at you wrong as well If so, i get it.

I think it's funny that golden motor says that a 10kW motor is good for a car. That's around 13 horsepower. What kind of car? a rickshaw?

The cromotor is nice, but i'd like to do something different, and the GM 5kW motor is a little cheaper anyway. I also like the idea of chain drive since the motor can be shielded from rain/snow/salt slush on the roads - something that would kill hub motors over time. May just order the 10kW so i can use it on a motorcycle later on. 5kW is a bit too weak for a vehicle that's going to weigh 200-300lb more than my bike anyway.

Will see how it goes.. weather is good.. prime time for finally getting around to testing..

[Golden Motor Canada]

I think it's funny that golden motor says that a 10kW motor is good for a car. That's around 13 horsepower. What kind of car? a rickshaw?

Not sure what this car is, but it seems simular to a VW rabbit. I havent looked at all his videos. He has 14 videos and it seems most are on this car. I have no experience personally with this motor other then to pick it up and say "holy fugg this thing is heavy". Quite a few people buy them and I receive no complaint. I would think if it was hooked into a standard transmission like this guy did, it would be quite sufficient. Again the folks at ES seem to have no desire in something powerfull enough. It would seem the interest is more for overpowering. Which is fine, my bike is far beyond the 500w limit in Canada so I do understand it. Saying that, I am not sure if it would suit someone from ES but others seem happy.

Gary



BTW, Canada is no where near being like the "Lawsuit happy" USA. But we do have laws that if you go to a bar or a party, drink until your shitfaced and then drive, the bartender or party host is somehow resposible if you have an accident. It's not something that makes sence to me. I am not really worried about a lawsuit from Neptronix, I am more interested in seeing him live and enjoy his ride.

[chroot]

Right on, Gary.... 10kw is pretty powerful just like CroMotor 9.3kv coming for me (2 items). I can't wait get my butt kicked!

BTW it's not an VW Rabbit, I used to be owned a 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel. I looked closely and found it's ZAZ Tavria

back to subject.... @neptronix why not just your own custom homemade bike frame with extended swing arm similar like this viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489 and install 10kw black GM motor in mid-drive. I am sure this will kick your butt instantly!

[JohnC]

May be ordering the big black motor from you soon ^_^

Please keep in mind the 5kw and 10kw motors are intended for motorcycles and cars

Gary

Thank you for trying to talk some sense into me Gary, unfortunately i am a bad listener
But actually, i really just want the 5kW motor for it's heat dissipation. Not to run my bike at highway speeds like liveforphysics

Am going to point the magic pie up some nasty long grades soon, now that we are out of winter. If you see an order for a 5kW, you'll know it didn't survive, lol..

Don’t bullsh@#t the man, Nep. We see the videos. In civilian life you’re a freelance knight of the quarter mile strip, winning back road joust on your chrome-gilt steed exploding like Vesuvius when you wind her out, red lining the ca and doing zee-ro to sixty in five flat, @#$damn, leaving the other dudes like they were standing still. We know your ambition is buy an even hairier beast/(pie) and spend the rest of your life watching telephone poles whip past in a blur.

[neptronix]

BTW, Canada is no where near being like the "Lawsuit happy" USA. But we do have laws that if you go to a bar or a party, drink until your shitfaced and then drive, the bartender or party host is somehow resposible if you have an accident. It's not something that makes sence to me. I am not really worried about a lawsuit from Neptronix, I am more interested in seeing him live and enjoy his ride.

Gary; i can't believe that car conversion, lol. That is such a tiny transmission. I bet that car came with a 2 cylinder motor. It probably makes the geo metro look like an overweight pig.. i suppose i never heard of any car with that low amount of power here in the USA... well i guess you win this argument ... that motor is something like 30 pounds, isn't it?

That bartender/party host law has gotta put a damper on having a good time, but it's good to hear that you guys aren't as litigious. I do understand your stance and thanks for being concerned about my safety


chroot: i live in an upstairs apartment and don't have the means or space to build my own frame. But if i were to go over 40mph on anything ( other than to test a motor out just for kicks ), i'd do it on a motorcycle or scooter chassis. Bicycles just aren't adequate for the job, and i'm not interested in dealing with the potential legal issues anyway.


JohnC: I won't deny that