Norco A-line 144v 200amp Lipo 150km/h build

[Andje]

"hello, my name is Andje, I have en e-bike problem..."-Andje
"Hello Andje!"-Group
"I can't seem to stop buying things to make me go faster..."-Andje
"How fast can you go?"-Group
"Only just over 100km/h right now... I want to go faster."-Andje
"100km/h? HOW CAN I DO THAT? WHAT DO I NEED TO BUY"- Group

[MattyCiii]

Sponsor: "Here Andje, it's your 100 kph chip. You've earned it!"

[Andje]

rofl

[Andje]

Just a small update; I hate hydro brakes. I hate filling them, I hate bleeding them, I hate them. I hate the feel of them, I hate the look of them. They stand solidly hated.
But, the daisy chain is going to work, once I get all the air out of the system. I am using a Hope double banjo kit to link the bleed port of the front caliper to the in port of the rear one; this will enable me to operate both brakes with the one lever, and I will also be getting regen braking working with that same lever. So I will have one brake lever on the left and my "go" lever on the right. I love the simple look of it, and operating it is also sweet; you quickly get used to pulling just a little to trigger the regen, and then progressively more to trigger the two brakes.

[binlagin]

Are you running a dual disc front brake? Or you hooking up both front and rear to a single lever?

[Andje]

front and rear single lever

[MattyCiii]

Just a small update; I hate hydro brakes. I hate filling them, I hate bleeding them, I hate them. I hate the feel of them, I hate the look of them. They stand solidly hated.
But, the daisy chain is going to work, once I get all the air out of the system. I am using a Hope double banjo kit to link the bleed port of the front caliper to the in port of the rear one; this will enable me to operate both brakes with the one lever, and I will also be getting regen braking working with that same lever. So I will have one brake lever on the left and my "go" lever on the right. I love the simple look of it, and operating it is also sweet; you quickly get used to pulling just a little to trigger the regen, and then progressively more to trigger the two brakes.

Andje,
This sounds really cool. Can you please post pictures?

[Trackman417]

Just a small update; I hate hydro brakes. I hate filling them, I hate bleeding them, I hate them. I hate the feel of them, I hate the look of them. They stand solidly hated.
But, the daisy chain is going to work, once I get all the air out of the system. I am using a Hope double banjo kit to link the bleed port of the front caliper to the in port of the rear one; this will enable me to operate both brakes with the one lever, and I will also be getting regen braking working with that same lever. So I will have one brake lever on the left and my "go" lever on the right. I love the simple look of it, and operating it is also sweet; you quickly get used to pulling just a little to trigger the regen, and then progressively more to trigger the two brakes.

Andje,
This sounds really cool. Can you please post pictures?

..... Please

[binlagin]

front and rear single lever

How come you don't want to control the breaks independently?

Won't this cause early rear slides under heavy braking? Sounds kinda scary ><

[Andje]

I'll have it set to trigger regen first, then brake. Ideally you'd do it progressively, regen, then front then rear brake. So when I set up the hydros and finally pump them to set the pads, Ill set the front a little tighter then the rear, and it will first brake front then rear, with the option to lock both if I squeeze hard. The thing is, even in a high speed stop situation, you DEFINITELY want to use regen if you can. Ideally you would "slam" on the brakes, triggering max regen and max non-locking front brake. Then at about 20km/h you would prbly want to lock the back wheel as the regen stopping power peters out. Either way, I would just never, ever slam them on. I would always ramp it on, getting as much out of regen as possible. You maintain complete control while getting maximum decel that way.
Anyway, I have bee using that set-up on my powered bikes for literately 5 years now. It allows for one brake lever on the left with one throttle lever on the right. I cannot use the thumb throttles, over long distances holding them at WOT my hands cramp, its just unpleasant. I like the thumb triggers snowmobile style, but my favourite is the brake lever throttle for sure. Holding it down is easy as cake

In other news, bike is still noncomissioned due to the bleeding of these brakes being just the worst thing around. I am waiting to be paid, then i will prbly invest in a bleed kit or at least try and proccur an appropriate sized syringe for the forcing of oil through from the bottom up. I am having a hell of a time clearing the whole system because it is twice as long with two different piston sets in it, meaning twice as much air in the first place with twice as many places for it to get suck and half the bleed valves. It's the very first time I have played with hydro brakes, and I frocking hate it. There is literally like 10 bikes worth of frocking mineral oil on the ground. If it was DOT brake fluid I would be dead by now.

[crusoe]

What brakes are you running andje? I'm running Hayes HFX 9, and binlaggin has Avid Code 6's I think. Anyway, it's much easier to bleed with two people. But even still, it takes 5 minutes to bleed front and back. You DEFINITELY need a bleed kit though, we've never had any problems with spills or anything. Also, I've got access to mega sized syringes from the hospital should you need some. Just let me know, they definitely help in getting high pressure into the lines

[Andje]

I have a Deore XT on the front and a Saint in the rear, being run on the saint levers from 2009.
I think I just need two people and the proper equipment, as you say...
It's funny, i don't know how many people have read zen and the art of motorcycle repair, but since i have one working bike and no money to solve my problem by getting a bleed kit, i lack gumption right now .

[Osarus]

Sweet ride! and you are mental enough to be sponsored by redbull riding that! and i wana join ya

I was looking at an RC outrunner but the x5's seem more then enough tourqe!

What sot of wattage are you pulling from the battery on your runs around 100km/hr?
Im looking at setting up a 5403 at 72v, trying to work out what speed i might have at that voltage. 100 looks crazy let alone higher!

[scriewy]

ehh.... what's the no load speed ?

i searched for it 4 hours, red 3 12 pg threads, docs and yours and others and no 1 mentioned no load speed everybody got distracted by mods.

doutch420 and your load speeds differ because of total load weight so it's toooo complicated to extrapolate no load speeds of 5403.

[Andje]

Update!

So... the Battery work was going swimmingly until June, when my apartment burnt down. An unrelated stove electrical issue went up at night, destroyed my apartment, killed my two cats and almost took me and my roomate with it. its all very tragic and shitty, but this post is mostly about moving on since then; the only thing i will say is that even if they are not dangerous or charging, lipo batts in you living room is a LOT of fuel if something ELSE starts the fire. I have yet to see it mentioned, but even monitored safe batteries are dangerous when everything else hits the fan.

Both my bikes were fine, just singed, and although the battery backpack burnt, the konion cells survived. I spent the summer assembling them into a 40s 10p pack. i recently finished the bike, nothing left but some finishing and prettying up details.

It will do over 100km/h but I don't know how much more; prbly not much. It pulls over 100 amps battery, but again I haven't pushed it yet. The 5403 is obviously not quite fast enough for my needs: although it heats slowly and gobbles the amps, I really want to push past 120km/h, and I have the voltage, amps, erpm and bike to do it, just need a motor. So Im going to start the rewire of my double hs, and aim for a 150km/h wind and see where that goes.

Apart from the top speed I am quite happy with the bike. The rear suspension is amazing, the battery placement makes the ride really smooth with no wheelie feeling (although you can certainly force it :p.) Im still figuring out the regen; it is very good, when it works, but its not consistent enough for me yet.

Ill get some pictures up later today.

[binlagin]

Damn... sorry to hear about your losses Andje. I was beginning to wondering where you went! Good to hear your ok thought.

Look forward to seeing those pictures!

[Arlo1]

Shitty dude. I will put it in my sig later but lipo needs to be treated like gasoline. It kinda has been posted to treat them that way but not super clear.

[Andje]

Yeah ive been reading about lipo since it started being used and no one has quite phrased it this way quite yet. im saying it: its irresponsible to have lipo in your house at all unless you are actively doing something to it. As you say arlo, its as dangerous as gasoline, and you wouldnt leave a bunch of gasoline on your liivng room sofa. tbh my fire wouldn't have been much better without the lipo, but it certainly contributed to the destruction and damage. I would never store it inside again.

[scriewy]

sounds like BIG ass, magic smoke gods and fairies had a party at your place.

your were renting the place nhaa ?

condolences for the furry balls.

[Trackman417]

Sorry to hear about your loss. At least nobody got injured, that's all I can say. As far as storing lipo's. I store them in my bike in my garage. Nothing that is absolutely needed in there so if the batt's burn. More space for me!

Look forward to seeing some updates with the rewind and maybe some pics.

[oatnet]

Really sorry to hear about your cats, and the loss of your apartment, but I am glad you and your roommate are alive.

-JD

[Andje]

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Here are some pics from the in progress stages of the build. Its final finished form is undergoing shakedown atm. I hit GPS verified 120km/h yesterday, but I don't think she'll do much more then that in flat. Saw 25 amps regen at 150v too, and pulled 117 battery at 158v. Good times.

[scriewy]

sheesh pic 849 with those loosely hanging phases just screams BADASS

congrats on 120kmh

[Andje]

Update-

So one of my 40 chunks of batts died, so I have had to pull apart the fiberglass case. Good news is that was easy as hell; the packing tape layer I used on the batts inside meant that they literally slid out of the case after I dremeled it open. So I'm redoing the case and 100 of the batteries; I overcharged the 10s group with the dead batt, that's how I found it. The rest of that 10s chunk went to 4.31 so I anticipate loss of 10-15% capacity as DB reported a couple years ago. They are being replaced. Also the reason for the failure wasn't the process I was using; upon investigation the chunk that failed didn't undergo the vetting process all the others did; the rest sat for weeks to weed out the week ones or the hidden self-discharging cell that would take them all to zero. The chunk that failed I put together right at the end to replace a pack that had died during the vetting procedure. So I have confidence that the reason this went tits up is because I didn't follow my own correct procedure, and that the other 300 batteries should be good to go.
I also destroyed the most expensive downhill rim available with one fairly good jump, IE 50km/h off a 5 foot hill onto flat, prbly flew 15-20 feet. The bike is really well balanced, but the 14 guage spokes just couldn't take it, and I think I need to tune the rear shock as well, it should have absorbed more of the drop... Anyway, I'm going to 11/12 JRH spokes and a 21 inch moto rim and DOT rated rear tire. I may have to redo the rear dropouts to move the tire backwards an inch or so to make it fit in the long run, we shall see.
The battery might be done this season, but I guess it's next year for this build as the Canadian winter is already rearing it's ugly head. Brace yourselves...
I'm going to spend the winter rebuilding and making it look pretty I guess.

[MattyCiii]

Anyway, I'm going to 11/12 JRH spokes and a 21 inch moto rim and DOT rated rear tire.

I've been down that road. It has some bumps... but It's probably worth it (why do I say "probably?" because I've only been up to about 1/5th your speed on this bike/these wheels!)

Here are some thoughts from the experience:
1) Starting with the hub - I wanted a NuVinci, so that meant there would be a top end to the strain I could put on the hub flange. This ultimately meant 13GA JRH spokes with oversized nipples (and washers, because the oversized spoke nipples were still too small). Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37207&start=60#p589891. I know your drive is different, but spoke flange strength might still be a consideration.
2) I didn't shop for rims and tires at the same time. So, I convinced myself to buy 21" rims and 2.5" tires. Too bad I bought the rims before realizing that 2.5" tires were impossible to find. 2.75" tires not too available either. I went with 3" tires, since that was the smallest I could find. This made for a really tight fit:

Presently, I have like 1mm clearance on each side of the chain stays. That's plenty-good, as the rim is solid and the wheel is true - but it's really really close.
Bottom line - look into 21", 20" and 19" rims, and shop for tires at the same time. Don't buy till you have a combo you like.
( Don't let the pic below fool you, in that picture I have spacers on the axle widening the rear.)
3) Radius: Noting that my custom dropouts push the rear axle back 3" and down 1", the 21" rim and 3" tire works fine radius wise. Looks like it would work with the standard dropouts, actually. IIRC, your dropouts push the axel back about 2"?

If you want me to take any measurements for clearance sake, let me know.
4) Again, without long term and high speed tests, take this with a grain of salt - but...
If you buy a tubeless motorcycle or scooter tire, stick with tubeless technology all the way. I have a tube mounted in a tubeless wheel in the rear - had to have it installed professionally, and per the mechanic it was an SOB. The front is pure tubeless, using "Stan's Tubeless" fluid and rim tape. The wheel went together much easier - installed by the same shop/mechanic.
Link: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 15#p587532