Giant DH Team, Cromotor, 18fet Lyen, 111v Lipo

[binlagin]

Yea, I have the TTY to USB programing adapter... I feel like I'm part of a MotoGP pit crew when I kneel down beside my bike with my laptop which is connected by USB.

Thanks for the PWM resource... I'll do some more reading! <3 ebikes!

I gotta do some chores around the house then I'll be taking the GoPro out and seeing what it's capeable of... I think I might just leave the Phase AMPerage at 95... for now!

[binlagin]

Updates!

I've been a busy working on the bike

I've installed the rear brake with an extended brake line. I also swapped out my tires for hookworms now that there is asphalt outside!

I charged up the batteries to 125v and set my phase wires to 125amp. This is the result!

[markobetti]

OKAY OKAY...now i get what accountant is saying. GUYS BE CAREFUL !! ITS NO JOKE WHEN YOU FALL DOWNR , EVEN CARS SLIP on water AT SOME POINT. You understand that by given specs you are matching the power of x6 motor ?
The frame must be 100 percent safe to ride like this, the brakes need to be 100% clean etc...

[JoramsWeapon]

I think you flew by me when taking that vid, I saw somebody on what appeared to be a tiny motorcycle fly by me as I passed the Queensway-Carleton hospital on Baseline Road. Dude, you were going FAST!

[markobetti]

Just figured you are a pro racer on youtube- so who am i to give an advice to you - sorry

[binlagin]

Yeah... no offense taken at all, it's a reality check Markobetti! Thanks for keeping my head level

This bike is now a fast and powerful machine. It needs to be treated with respect and I must be 100% confident in my riding and mechanical skills when getting aboard and bringing it up to these speeds.

In this video I'm wearing full motorcycle gear under my jeans and yellow jacket. I try to take safety as serious as possible. Even thou some might not think so in this video

[hydro-one]

hookworks suck on wet grass/wet. just a friendly reminder!! looking GREAT!!!!!!!!!!

[binlagin]

I think you flew by me when taking that vid, I saw somebody on what appeared to be a tiny motorcycle fly by me as I passed the Queensway-Carleton hospital on Baseline Road. Dude, you were going FAST!

Hahah, such a small world to know that I was spotted by an ES member!

Time to get some ES stickers for the bike Do you have an ebike? We'll have to meetup and go for a ride!

[JoramsWeapon]

Very small world indeed, I grew up on Iris Street just beside the Ikea. Only rarely do I see an ebiker and they're never on anything as interesting as yours just the expensive bolt-on kits like the BionX. I do have a few bikes and I'd love to ride with you but none of them are going to keep up with that Cromotor though, my 9C 1606 tops out at 60km/h most days. I do have a reservation for the same Cromotor you have but I've run out of funding until I file my taxes . Either that or it's back to pasta and sardines until I can order more equipment, and before I thought mopeds cut holes in my wallet...

[chroot]

Damn that's too fast! But hey becareful on wet road and try think safety comes first than being sorry if you crash. OUCH

I am looking forward hand 2 of cromotors coming end of this month.

[zombiess]

Thanks for posting that video. I've been waiting for some others to post their experiences with the motor. You see how powerful it is in your bike, imagine what it feels like in mine with 20" wheels. The acceleration is amazing and during normal riding the bicycle is still efficient if you can stay out of the throttle.

If you have more amps available with your controller to feed it, you'll go even faster and accelerate harder. These motors are nutty powerful for bicycles. I hope those new to the high power game decide to start off on lower voltages. You and I are both at 125V which is serious bad boy territory.

[crusoe]

I was driving the truck that day - not even a chance of catching him! I took the bike for a rip later that day, eyes crossed fast!

The real question is: will cops give chase? And what would the fine be?

[Doctorbass]

I like the speed that the camera directly translate. this give real impression of your true speed!

at 2:21 i heard your motor temp alarm that chime right?

Hey hey!.. overtemp a little bit?

What was the alarm temperature set to ?

At 113km/h my X5 stabilize at 121 celsius no prob, the motor seem to be in the right efficiency spot with 10-11kW continuous.

Nice video.. and like other said, be carefull powerfull Ebikes must make us enjoy life and not destroy it

Doc

[binlagin]

Thanks for posting that video. I've been waiting for some others to post their experiences with the motor. You see how powerful it is in your bike, imagine what it feels like in mine with 20" wheels. The acceleration is amazing and during normal riding the bicycle is still efficient if you can stay out of the throttle.

If you have more amps available with your controller to feed it, you'll go even faster and accelerate harder. These motors are nutty powerful for bicycles. I hope those new to the high power game decide to start off on lower voltages. You and I are both at 125V which is serious bad boy territory.

With 20" inch wheels... I can appreciate why you need a longer swing arm!! OMG!! If I don't learn forward while accelerating... my front wheel wants up lift off!

Admittedly, this is my first build, but I have a few years of motorcycle track riding and wrenching experience with some basic electronics knowledge. So I don't feel I come completely ill-equiped to build somthing like this. With alot of reading and great resources like this site, I've been able to slowly put together this build.

My controller apparently supports up to 150amps+. I'm afraid I'm going to damage my wires or have a wheel go out on me at speed. I'm using the Turnigy 10g silicone wires for my phase and main leads with 6mm bullets... nothing has gotten warm yet, but I'm just taking my time. I think i'm going to order some 8g wire and some even bigger connectors! I'm just going to slowly increase the AMPs now until I'm comfortable everything is stable.

Now my next challenge... determine my maximum distance to safe LVC level. I need to rewire my batteries for methods LVC protection system... but that's next!

Does everyone think I could commute 20km round trip with this configuration? 30s @ 10AH?

[binlagin]

I like the speed that the camera directly translate. this give real impression of your true speed!

Hahaha, thanks! The lines start to blur really fast!

at 2:21 i heard your motor temp alarm that chime right?
Hey hey!.. overtemp a little bit?

I currently don't have a probe in my motor, I have the probe connected to my controller. My motor wasn't even warm after this.

I didn't know there was even an alarm on this temperature gauage. However it was set at 50c to go off... my controller reached a 55c max temp on that run, which was just luke warm to the touch.

How hot is safe for the controller? 70c?

The first day with this controller in heavy snow.. It got so hot i couldn't touch it... so I had to get one of the Ikea themometers to ensure it never happens again!

[markobetti]

I like the speed that the camera directly translate. this give real impression of your true speed!

Hahaha, thanks! The lines start to blur really fast!

at 2:21 i heard your motor temp alarm that chime right?
Hey hey!.. overtemp a little bit?

I currently don't have a probe in my motor, I have the probe connected to my controller. My motor wasn't even warm after this.

HAHAH DOC, YOU STILL WANT TO PROVE CRYSTALYTE IS BETTER... SORRY ,..NO CAN DO...AND YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY CAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU AND ZOMBIE ARE GETTING, EVEN WE IN CROATIA WILL NOT HAVE ANY FOR OURSELVES

[zombiess]

My controller apparently supports up to 150amps+. I'm afraid I'm going to damage my wires or have a wheel go out on me at speed. I'm using the Turnigy 10g silicone wires for my phase and main leads with 6mm bullets... nothing has gotten warm yet, but I'm just taking my time. I think i'm going to order some 8g wire and some even bigger connectors! I'm just going to slowly increase the AMPs now until I'm comfortable everything is stable.

An 18 FET IRFB4115 controller will not support 150A of battery current, you will blow the FETs. I have mine heavily modded to increase it's power handling through better current sharing and heat sinking and I keep it limited to under 110A continuous if I'm playing around in the danger 35mph power wheelie zone. I can probably burst 125A for a pull or two, but it's not something I plan to attempt as replacing FETs is kind of a pain in the ass.

If you haven't modded your 18 FET controller similar to the way mine is done, keep the amps to the low side if you want it to live. I always try to keep my FET temps under 65C with a max of 80C. I've only ever exceeded 80C once and that was because I was climbing 15-30% grades at 40% throttle, something you just shouldn't do. What I should have done was reconfigure the pack for 12S or 18S and then run 100% throttle, would have stayed a lot cooler.

My new 36 FET IRFB4115 controller should be interesting if it works. 20" longer swing arm vs my current 8" swing arm and lower to the ground, probably around 21" tire height because it's going into a 16" moped wheel. Top speed should be 75+ but I'm trying to shoot for pure acceleration.

Careful with riding and making sure you don't over do it with the controller. If you want 100A you should be running a 24 FET IRFB4115 controller unless you mod yours similar to what I have done. My 36 FET should handle about 220A battery current at 125V, but I plan to run it at a lower setting, like 150A-175A if the front end will stay down.

Just the other day I was showing off how I could do a burn out. Tried again, tire was sticky and it hooked. I rode the battery bag (just like riding the tank on a motorcycle) into a 2ft off the ground power wheelie for about 10 ft. Didn't scare me, kinda thought it was funny more than anything, just wish I had all my accidental wheelies on video. Some great comedy and warnings for those playing with this motor on high power. Even limited to 70A I'll have the front end off the ground a few inches in a 5 mile ride at least 5 times purely by accident and rarely from a dead stop. This motor is torque heaven/hell all in one.

[binlagin]

Thanks for the advice Zombiess, I've considered upgrading to the 24fet controller... but I think i'm going to put on some more KM's before I pull the trigger on that one. Unless someone wants to buy a discounted 18-FET controller

In the video, I was pulling 125A... my controller wasn't warmer then 55c. Is it still possible to damage the FET's with out overheating it first? I think I'll bring it back down to 95Amps

What would the max discharge for my 20c batteries be? I'm afraid they might be the next weakest link in my build. 30S 2P....

I dreamed of ebikes last night... I can't wait to commute on this bad boy.

[gensem]

Raise that current!!!
My cromotor is laced to a 17" moped wheel 18fet 4110 and im using it with 24s lipo 65a main 160a phase... and its not that wheelie prone at 6-6.5kw peaks.
Have a look at my last videos.

[zombiess]

Thanks for the advice Zombiess, I've considered upgrading to the 24fet controller... but I think i'm going to put on some more KM's before I pull the trigger on that one. Unless someone wants to buy a discounted 18-FET controller

In the video, I was pulling 125A... my controller wasn't warmer then 55c. Is it still possible to damage the FET's with out overheating it first? I think I'll bring it back down to 95Amps

What would the max discharge for my 20c batteries be? I'm afraid they might be the next weakest link in my build. 30S 2P....

I dreamed of ebikes last night... I can't wait to commute on this bad boy.

Was that 125A your constant battery current or just a peak? What are your phase amps set for? I can tell you from experience that if your case was 55C the internal temps were most likely over 100C and the FETs themselves were probably over 120C! That experience is the fact that I have temperature probes on my FETs and also monitoring the internal case temp.

Just remember that my controller is modded almost to the max with better electrical insulators that have better thermal transfer and also I feed and pull power from the tabs of the FETs using copper buss bars which also double as heat sinks. The only mod I have left to do to it is add some copper to the ground traces to see if it helps cool things down and maybe some cooling holes and a small fan. If you want to see what I did to my controller I have lots of pictures located here:
EB318 controller mods
http://dynamic.opticalanarchy.com:8080/zombie/bike/eb318mod/

And my current project, an EB236 36 FET IRFB4115 controller
http://dynamic.opticalanarchy.com:8080/zombie/bike/eb236mod/

Here is a brief rundown of what I've seen temp wise:
At 105A battery 125A phase I the FET's would stay in the 55-65C range and the internal case temp would be about 65C. The case itself was around 33C. This is all with the ambient temp around 15C. As soon as I stopped applying power the temps would drop quickly, FET temps would drop from 60 to 45C in about 1 min and the case temp from 60C to 50C in about 3 mins. My controller is exposed to the open air but has no ventilation. What you really need to worry about is how hot the internal temp of the case is getting to since there is no ventilation, that means the capacitors will be stressed from heat and their life will shorten. Also, running FETs over 80C will shorten their life span, continuous use over 100C the life span drops even faster.

I must admit, I'm surprised that it lived, maybe I'm under estimating what these are IRFB4115 18 FET controllers are truly capable of, but I can tell you, I hate blowing up good stuff because I got greedy. I've done it many times from ebike controllers (luckily just 1) to boosted car engines (a few). Once it gets warmer I doubt the controller will survive very long.

If I were you, I'd consider ventilating the controller at minimum, but I guarantee you are in the danger zone. If you climb a hill at part throttle on those settings you'll almost certainly kill it. To give you an idea how little the case temp tells you watch this video of my climbing some stupid steep hill. At the part where I stopped my FET temps were 88C and that was about 100ft before I stopped so I probably hit 90C!, the internal case temp was in the 60C range and out outside case temp was barely warm, probably 25-30C at most. That 88C temp on the FETs is what made me decide to stop. 40% throttle at 125V climbing a super steep hill creates a ton of heat fast.


If you want to continue and push it, please post regular updates about the controllers survival. I'm very curious to how far one of these can go but have been un willing to test one to destruction myself, then again at 125A phase, 105A battery my bike can power wheelie at 30mph if you aren't fully leaned over the bars so it's pretty sketchy to ride. I strongly suggest turning the block time down to 0.1S (you'll need hex edited software) and keeping the phase amps on the low side.

Your setup sure does look like it kicks serious ass, I just want to see it keep kicking ass.

[binlagin]

So your saying... the day I heated up my controller to the point I couldn't touch it... I'm EXTREMELY lucky that it's still working? It was that hot, for at least 5 minutes of heavy accelerating(WOT) in very heavy snow(low RPM).

After that incident, I installed the temperature probe on-top of the heatsync where the FET's attach to inside the case with super glue. How ever, after that mod... I'm basically maxed out on my electronics skill after that. I don't think I'll be doing any hard mod's to it... other then maybe some ventilation as you suggested. I will defiantly keep in mind that the probe isn't reading the temperature of the FET itself... just it's heatsync.

I'm kind of a newbie when it comes to the electrical side of things.

I asked earlier but I still don't really understand the difference of a 65Amp battery main lead vs the higher Amp Phase connections. I think it has something to do with the power "bursting" through each of the 3 phases? So when I say I'm running 125Amps... I'm only speaking of the phase current.... and only when i'm 100% throttle? This is where i start getting lost! lol

Thanks for the detailed response Zombiess... I think it's going to take some time to digest all that.

[binlagin]

I commuted to work for the first time on my bike It was preety wet... but that didn't stop the grin on my face!

OMG is all I can say. I was pulling 5,000watt... I think I'm going to turn down the phase current to a max of 75amps for commuting to keep me in line and maximize efficiency. The speed difference between 3500watts and 5000watts is very small.

I looked down at my controller and saw it was reading 90degrees, I swore it was reading 45degrees moments before... foruntatly I must have pushed a button and changed the setting to Ferinheight

My cells where charged up to 4.05v'ish before leaving... I arrived at work with them all reading 3.78-3.8... I'm just going to take it easy on the way home. I hope I can squeeze out another 10km

[zombiess]

I commuted to work for the first time on my bike It was preety wet... but that didn't stop the grin on my face!

OMG is all I can say. I was pulling 5,000watt... I think I'm going to turn down the phase current to a max of 75amps for commuting to keep me in line and maximize efficiency. The speed difference between 3500watts and 5000watts is very small.

I looked down at my controller and saw it was reading 90degrees, I swore it was reading 45degrees moments before... foruntatly I must have pushed a button and changed the setting to Ferinheight

My cells where charged up to 4.05v'ish before leaving... I arrived at work with them all reading 3.78-3.8... I'm just going to take it easy on the way home. I hope I can squeeze out another 10km

You might want to consider charging to 4.15V per cell, good amount of storage to be had between 4.05 and 4.15.

I'm hoping I can commute to work on my bike this week but I've been needing my car. Weather also hasn't been looking that great lately from what I heard, crazy winds are coming back, 40-50mph gusts. My commute is just under 10 miles/16km round trip and takes 12-15 minutes one way depending on stop lights and if I'm in a hurry, but all the bike paths I use are now under construction again (not sure how much more than can improve our already nice bicycle paths unless they force walkers to stay to one side and all dogs to be leashed) like they are every year when it's nice to ride. With my 12 AH pack I manage to do a round trip using about 5.5-6AH of the pack which leaves plenty left. My average speed is between 19 MPH and 22 MPH.

Every time I ride to work I arrive more awake and in a better mood, same for the ride home. It's just so much more fun than driving my car.

[itchynackers]

For reference, I've done some testing on my lipo cells. My experience is that there is about 10% of rated capacity charging from 4.10 to 4.20 volts. So yes you are missing a bit of capacity with minimal cycle life loss.

[zombiess]

For reference, I've done some testing on my lipo cells. My experience is that there is about 10% of rated capacity charging from 4.10 to 4.20 volts. So yes you are missing a bit of capacity with minimal cycle life loss.

I personally chose 4.166 as my preferred charging voltage, after the batteries come off the charger and sit for a day I usually drop from 125.0V down to 124.6V or 4.153 per cell. Since I almost never discharge down to 20% left I think I'm going to get many years of service from this 12AH pack which will soon be 18AH.