GCinDC's Giant DH Comp

[Skippic]

I was going to draw my diagram in such a way that the wiring appeared as a cock and balls

I'll remember this, from now on all my technical drawings will resemble a cock!

[GCinDC]

...my technical drawings will resemble...

congratulations, but you show off your masterpiece in another thread?

in other news, the return commute got a bit noisy. no shenanigans either. and just in time to install a new wheel!

i'm really torn about upgrading the phase wires while i'm at it. i'd rather not remove that side cover, but it'd be dumb to leave it as is and worry that the oil will damage it...

ah well, let's see what another night in the garage brings...

[GCinDC]

tested LM35 hooked up to HK VT (voltage/temp) monitor. used ebike tester since it puts out 5v.

some variance but motor was still cooling down..

[Scruffoid]

Wow Im dizzy. Nice camera angle.... lets see you do that one at 35mph

[GCinDC]

jbwelded the halls in place so they don't move when oil is sloshing in there.
drilled a vent hole close to axle, and at angle to discourage leakage.

took a closer look where the wire exits and decided not to mess with it.

turned the bike over and water came dripping down out of who knows where... and when i flipped it back, the CA was full of water!

turns out there are quite a few open holes under there.

i tossed a couple washers in the drive side and the wheel lined up pretty well:

long overdue brake bleed. yes, i removed the pads. and yes, that's a seasoning injector.


all cleaned up and ready to go tomorrow. tested it up and down the street. got to 34mph in the middle of the block so that's good. i shouldn't slow down traffic. temp rose to 44c after i parked. brakes work great.

[Hyena]

Nice one, I'm keen to see how you get on with the oil. Have you put it in yet ? If so what sort ?
Looks like a fairly large hole. You adding a breather hose to it or just leaving the hole ?

[shorza]

Looking really good Greg.

took a closer look where the wire exits and decided not to mess with it.

On my Crystalyte, the black plastice spacer between the motor and cables tries to spin with the motor, jamming the cables against the axle.
How did you get around this?

[GCinDC]

no bets on if i'll make it thru the day w/o a breakdown??

Nice one, I'm keen to see how you get on with the oil. Have you put it in yet ? If so what sort ?
Looks like a fairly large hole. You adding a breather hose to it or just leaving the hole ?

Not yet. I'm trying to be scientific. I want to see how the motor runs w/o the oil. and the answer is not surprisingly: HOT. i took it easy today as it's too hard to read the monitor in the sunlight, let alone video it. i'll do my night ride/video tonight, if i can keep my eyes open.

but it's amazing to see the difference of a vented hs3540 in a skinny bike wheel compared to a many pound MC wheel. reminder to self to test no load amps on both.

20120517_072016.jpg (178.12 KiB) Viewed 420 times

ambient was 20C this morning, but the motor was up to 80C after .5mi! i got up to 40mph after a bit, so was happy about that and for the long downhill run it rose only gradually, and hit 125C at mile 4. the hs3540 bike wheel woulda been at 85C max at the same time.

i'm counting on oil cooling. otherwise, i'd have to baby the motor.

and after i get a good comparison at 20s, i'm planning to get up to 24s, just to maintain my hs3540 bike wheel speed. (and i'll sacrifice regen at this point if it generates too much heat..)

but you should be proud of me for not doing stupid jumps on it yet. or even curbs. i don't have enough range in the spoke threads to get crazy just yet.

On my Crystalyte, the black plastice spacer between the motor and cables tries to spin with the motor, jamming the cables against the axle. How did you get around this?

this question almost induced morning sickness when i read it. surely that issues been resolved by now?? i never really understood it, but your description is pretty clear. i almost chopped the plastic off with a chisel this morning, but i've got the wire tied fast to the dropout to prevent rubbing against disc bolts.

i think i will have to remove the wire side cover before the oil. i'll need to caulk the holes over there, if not use more jbweld. it's the right thing to do..

oh, and hyena, as for the drill hole, i tried not to overthink it. i just had KISS in my head and was too busy second guessing myself about the proper angle to go at to counter leakage via centrifugal forces.. i like the idea of a short clear plastic tube in there.

and something tells me i should fill the motor on it's side, in order to measure how much goes in.

but that seasoning injector is pretty fun, and made quick work of the mineral oil. (can you believe me the lbs that sold me the wrong hose also said i could use any old mineral oil... so not true.)

time to stop writing. i feel like i'm jet lagged right now...

[shorza]

this question almost induced morning sickness when i read it. surely that issues been resolved by now?? i never really understood it, but your description is pretty clear. i almost chopped the plastic off with a chisel this morning, but i've got the wire tied fast to the dropout to prevent rubbing against disc bolts.

i think i will have to remove the wire side cover before the oil. i'll need to caulk the holes over there, if not use more jbweld. it's the right thing to do..

Haha, I'm not riding it like this yet. If it causes dramas, I'll get rid of it and just cable tie the cables in the axle.
Sorry, i still can't understand how yours doesn't try to spin with the motor.

[GCinDC]

ilia just told me the washer's been improved. it's not perfect, but it's better.

[outbackhack]

in other news, the return commute got a bit noisy...

Looks like it's not a good week for spokes in DC. I had just watched your video earlier today and then get home to find 3 broken spokes.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39854#p582438

[GCinDC]

useful thread: HS3540 wire cut mod help

also, i think i'll start using washers for now, as (from here):

[sn0wchyld]

yea mate, washers help allot, I had them on my HT back when I was using 14g spokes to a normal 26" rim... never had one pull though, and they were only little .5mm thick ones. after a while they flex inwards, so you'll have a fair bit of truing to do while that's going on... but once its done they work like a charm.

is your mx rim aluminium or steel? scratch that, I asked this a while back... Ill go post hunting.

[GCinDC]

the rim is a 7050 aluminum alloy Excel GDK406 Takasago Black 19" x 1.85" 36h. but i got mine new off ebay for $50.

back before i understood the measurements, i decided i needed a 19 x 1.85, but now would be happy w/ a 1.6. i think JRH might have told me a Shinko 244 might squeeze into a 1.4, but god help whoever has to change that tire.

having the wheel so tight in the frame makes for a pain to keep it true, so if you've (or whomever) has a wide frame, go nuts, get a big one, but as is clear in this vid above, the 2.75 tire is a tight fit in this funky offset frame.

efficiency/performance would be a whole lot better in a smaller rim, like the 17 moped, which would be easier to spoke out, but everyone knows i like to learn the hard way...

the large m/c wheel makes for a much more stable feeling on the road. it's hard to explain, but it almost feels like it's a conveyer in the back, like a snowmobile or something. of course it doesn't to compare to the wheel with all those broken spokes! but i've started wondering about the gyroscopic effect of so much mass on the wheel, and helping stability. the nobbies alone seem to provide quite a lot cushion. the giant tube (@38psi) provides even more cushion, before the suspension is even activated...

there are a couple speeds at which the nobbie pattern causes some odd vibration, unnerving at first. i think it's right at 30mph. but above that it's smoother. and considering that the shinko tires are cheaper than the hookworms, i think i can afford to get a street tire... but just looking now, it's not easy! and i knew that the 19 is hard to find size. outside of the dual sport variety, it seems most 19 wheels are for fat rear tires, the front of which is usually a 21...

i got that rear tire mostly with dirt use in mind, but the added traction/friction causes the motor to cook up.

[sn0wchyld]

the rim is a 7050 aluminum alloy Excel GDK406 Takasago Black 19" x 1.85" 36h. but i got mine new off ebay for $50.

back before i understood the measurements, i decided i needed a 19 x 1.85, but now would be happy w/ a 1.6. i think JRH might have told me a Shinko 244 might squeeze into a 1.4, but god help whoever has to change that tire.

having the wheel so tight in the frame makes for a pain to keep it true, so if you've (or whomever) has a wide frame, go nuts, get a big one, but as is clear in this vid above, the 2.75 tire is a tight fit in this funky offset frame.

efficiency/performance would be a whole lot better in a smaller rim, like the 17 moped, which would be easier to spoke out, but everyone knows i like to learn the hard way...

the large m/c wheel makes for a much more stable feeling on the road. it's hard to explain, but it almost feels like it's a conveyer in the back, like a snowmobile or something. of course it doesn't to compare to the wheel with all those broken spokes! but i've started wondering about the gyroscopic effect of so much mass on the wheel, and helping stability. the nobbies alone seem to provide quite a lot cushion. the giant tube (@38psi) provides even more cushion, before the suspension is even activated...

there are a couple speeds at which the nobbie pattern causes some odd vibration, unnerving at first. i think it's right at 30mph. but above that it's smoother. and considering that the shinko tires are cheaper than the hookworms, i think i can afford to get a street tire... but just looking now, it's not easy! and i knew that the 19 is hard to find size. outside of the dual sport variety, it seems most 19 wheels are for fat rear tires, the front of which is usually a 21...

i got that rear tire mostly with dirt use in mind, but the added traction/friction causes the motor to cook up.

Nah ive got a 17 inch mx rim... dont bother. they're too damn small, it'll drop your BB height too much and you'll have pedals bashing on the ground in corners/over large bumps. PITA, though you could solve this by modding the frame to have a 'lower' rear axle height, or if you dont pedal at all.

Strange that you find 19's hard to find tyres for, I thought 18 was the 'usual' rear tyre, with the big fat 4+ inches of rubber, ...

Performance over rough ground also takes a hit, due to the smaller diameter. not as big of an issue as the ride height, but still annoying.

If you do switch to a 17, make sure to stick with alluminium. I've got a steel rim and it gets bent waaaay to easy (though, it is a cheap rim). Also, let me know if you ever want to part with your 19'er.

I'm more thinking of 19" rims for my next bike (front and back), which'll have a on frame motor... but a high top speed where dot tyres are usefull, not to mention the flatproofness... oh the flatproofness. sooo good. I love the look of 'em too. nice and beefy.

[GCinDC]

my pseudo scientific test... took too long to get to middle of the mass ave hill - i drove WOT to get there, when i could, trying to heat it up. we know she's a cooker. motor temp in colors.

hs3540inMC_preOil_cmprsd.jpg (81.84 KiB) Viewed 473 times

i should be able to repeat tho w/ oil in there and get good comparison numbers. map was reversed to follow timeline better.

the raw data, a video of the CA/HK VT monitor:


for some reason i'd been thinking there was a wirehole inside the motor that i could caulk/fill up, but it's a slot... and what with the wire vulnerabilities in that slot, i'm thinking i'll have to use less oil to keep it from leaking out..

[hjns]

Very nice. I planned to do something similar, but can't find the time. Will take me another month, so I am anxiously following your thread.

[rui_fujino]

cool vd greg, whats your controller settings? (phase current ..etc)

[GCinDC]

never programmed this controller. requested these settings back in 11/10 (excluding sp sw settings):

[GCinDC]

before smear campaign:

after:


removed wire side after all, jb welded wire/hose ends to withstand hot oil turbulence. some marine sealant up around the axle slot, though that probably won't last, but hopefully will fill any gaps to discourage spooging my disc rotor.

of course the bearing stuck to the axle. and notice how the end rusted? must have retained some moisture from last night, despite my 1/8" vent hole.

more after it dries.

[GCinDC]

leaving it all to dry overnight:

[shorza]

Great job!
I'll be copying this. Please keep us updated on how it all works out.

[GCinDC]

cross posting, so kill me:

w/o oil it took me 1 minute to get up to 70C.

w/ oil, it took 15 minutes of pulling mostly 4kw, heavy starts, stops, bad throttle.

got some weird cut outs tho. almost like hall dying, but power resumed right away. happened a bunch of times. not good.

also, i was VERY glad i removed rear caliper, as the seal on the disk side blew and a bulb of oil appeared. not sure why vent didn't work!

perhaps should have waited longer for sealant to dry. i'm used to painting caulking while wet...

i did some tests with round tupperware, and figured out that 1/4 full put oil at a good level:


i hated the thought of not knowing how much was in there, so decided to fill it halfway, then siphon out half of that. i ended up putting in 400 cc total, but 50cc probably leaked out axle. i made the mess so you won't have to...

and 350cc is still too much, if oil covered my vent hole, there would be too much pressure in there.

some of the work:

[GCinDC]

[Stone Meadow]

Okay...I don't get it. Why seeing red?

What was I looking at