41MPH EVG SX bike with Magic Pie motor

[neptronix]

I'll tell you a secret about the 20C Zippy packs.
They are more like 10C in reality

IR ( according to the iCharger ) is double versus the 20C Turnigy packs.

Their strength is that they are smaller and lighter. You're best off running a higher amount of amp hours and lower C, like 5C or less continuous/peak.

[o00scorpion00o]

Okay so you are seeing about 4500 watts then on acceleration ?

That is really weird, I think I give up!

Actually I reversed polarity on my controller today, stupid mistake!

I created a thread in e bike technical, to see if the controller is toast!

[o00scorpion00o]

I'll tell you a secret about the 20C Zippy packs.
They are more like 10C in reality

IR ( according to the iCharger ) is double versus the 20C Turnigy packs.

Their strength is that they are smaller and lighter. You're best off running a higher amount of amp hours and lower C, like 5C or less continuous/peak.

Hey Nep, yeah I think 10C is a more realistic rating alright, I think HK need to re rate the Zippy's!

I was using only 5ah because I was testing the pie on 24S, I don't have enough LiPo for 2P But will go back to 16S when my mac parts come.

[snellemin]

My bike actually pulls around 6000W on acceleration and cuts off after a few seconds if I don't go gentle with the throttle.

[o00scorpion00o]

My bike actually pulls around 6000W on acceleration and cuts off after a few seconds if I don't go gentle with the throttle.

That's strange, all I get is 3kw even with a modded controller and soldered shunt !

Sure I can pull 5kw but I have to be careful with the throttle which is a pain in the ass.

So yours cuts out at 6kw and mine goes mad at 3kw, grgrgrgrgrgrr head exploding!

[snellemin]

I can see the frustration, especially when my controller is bone stock. The CA shows a peak of 79A today.

[snellemin]

46mph!

[o00scorpion00o]

46 mph, Getting clost to the 50 mph club!!!

Was that with the same battery and phase currents ?

[snellemin]

Yup, that was with the same phase current and batts. Dunno if the bike can hit 50mph though.

[o00scorpion00o]

Yup, that was with the same phase current and batts. Dunno if the bike can hit 50mph though.

I seriously can't understand what the fack is going on with my set up, same motor, same controller. I think my head is going to explode!

So what are you seeing again on acceleration ?

And you mst have had throttle turned to 100% ?

[snellemin]

At 100% I see 6KW on acceleration on the CA. And after thinking about it, I could go 50mph if I didn't have any voltage drop. But an 1000 dollar battery investment just to eak out a few more MPH is not on the priority list right now.

[o00scorpion00o]

At 100% I see 6KW on acceleration on the CA. And after thinking about it, I could go 50mph if I didn't have any voltage drop. But an 1000 dollar battery investment just to eak out a few more MPH is not on the priority list right now.

6kw ?

Can you do me a favour and send me a screen shot of your settings, if they are not different from your last screen shot ?

Thanks

[snellemin]

The screen would be the same. I haven't changed anything. I do have to check what is different in my CA though. I didn't ride my bike to work today, so it will be a bit before I get to it. I do know that my shunt resistance is set at around 1.75 ohms and verified to be near correct with my eagletree datalogger running at a lower voltage.

[snellemin]

Here are my new settings with 24s1p lipo. Torque has been toned down a lot. The bike doesn't cut off anymore with this settings at 100% throttle. I just tested this settings and tomorrow will see what happens. I'm going to use this setting when I bike with other bikers around me. These setting feels like how my old ebay kit accelerated.

[o00scorpion00o]

That would look to be slow enough

Kind of defeats having the Pie ?

My vibration problem goes away but I have to turn down the amps too much so again defeats the purpose of having a pie.

I have given up on trying to sort out the problem, so either the motor got damaged when it over heated or it just won't work properly at high power levels in sensorless mode. Maybe it varies from motor to motor and controller to controller ?

But to be honest I would rather a faster wind motor because 24S 2p is a lot of battery, and the 8T mac can do 40 mph on only 16S huge difference. I'm waiting on a new clutch, axle and keyway.

I would really love another pie to test with halls to see if the problem was the sensorless controller or not!

[snellemin]

Here are my new settings I rode with this morning. Top speed was 44.3mph. Plenty of torque and smooth throttle.

However, I did get a buzzing noise once during acceleration. Kinda the same that you are experiencing. Only happened once. I'm thinking it's my phase current setting. I'll change it later and see if it happens again.

[o00scorpion00o]

HMM your phase amps seem a little low, going by the battery x2.5 rule, would be about 111 amps phase ?

I've my LiPo back as 16S 2P, don't want to kill it yet and bulk charging is really handy.

I've given up on it now, I'll just turn the amps down and accept defeat.

I wish I know someone else locally with a pie that I could test.

But try turn up your phase to 111 and see what happens.

[snellemin]

It would be easier if I really understood how the timing, throttle curve ramped up in this controller.

The phase amps is just for startup, creeping and acceleration, which at one point crosses over to the battery amp settings when the throttle increases. The 40/60A settings worked, but the timing between going from phase to battery Amp settings was too off. At 45/66, it is near perfect. I'm going by the 1.5 multiplier over the 2.5, since the bike is running on 24s and the Magic pie being a torque motor already. I don't think I would be able to get away with the 1.5 multiplier with my old 500w Ebay motor.

Increasing the phase amps(2.3-2.5 multiplier) will increase my torque during acceleration, making for a nice zippy ride. But that is dangerous when you have 500-600 other bikers around you. Hence my new toned down settings and see how the bike reacts. So with my morning commute, the bike had good acceleration. No wheelie popping startup torque, but a nice linear power band. Climbing power on the inclines in the parking garage was good too. I'm going to a 1.6 multiplier soon and see if that buzz(timing issue?) is reproducible or not.

[hodgie]

Hey - interesting talk. Could use some advice.

Brand new to the forum and new to doing mods

I have an EVG too with working Heinzman geared 500W brushed motor - everything is stock except a LiMnCO2 10ah 36V bottle battery instead of the awful lead acid.

I live in Colorado - would like extra power and a little more speed (maybe 25-30 mph max).
Use the bike for errands, 10 mi ride to the lake for a run, occasional dirt road/trail action, lots of hills.

Any thoughts about what I might put in the way of a setup for a front motor?

I love the versatility and simplicity of the Pie but is that just way too much motor and weght?

Thx in advance.

[o00scorpion00o]

Hey - interesting talk. Could use some advice.

Brand new to the forum and new to doing mods

I have an EVG too with working Heinzman geared 500W brushed motor - everything is stock except a LiMnCO2 10ah 36V bottle battery instead of the awful lead acid.

I live in Colorado - would like extra power and a little more speed (maybe 25-30 mph max).
Use the bike for errands, 10 mi ride to the lake for a run, occasional dirt road/trail action, lots of hills.

Any thoughts about what I might put in the way of a setup for a front motor?

I love the versatility and simplicity of the Pie but is that just way too much motor and weght?

Thx in advance.

Hi Hodgie, welcome to the Sphere!

It's best if you create your own thread and ask all the questions you want there.

You see it would be hard to answer your question in just one reply!

But basically I think the biggest limiting factor would be your battery! afaik they are rated for 1C only, so that means you should really only pull about 10 amps from it, if it were 2C you could pull 20 amps, and so on.....

But you would be probably looking at spending nearly 1000 USD on a new system. I would be recommending a rear hub, unless you got good strong steel forks!


Mark

[o00scorpion00o]

It would be easier if I really understood how the timing, throttle curve ramped up in this controller.

The phase amps is just for startup, creeping and acceleration, which at one point crosses over to the battery amp settings when the throttle increases. The 40/60A settings worked, but the timing between going from phase to battery Amp settings was too off. At 45/66, it is near perfect. I'm going by the 1.5 multiplier over the 2.5, since the bike is running on 24s and the Magic pie being a torque motor already. I don't think I would be able to get away with the 1.5 multiplier with my old 500w Ebay motor.

Increasing the phase amps(2.3-2.5 multiplier) will increase my torque during acceleration, making for a nice zippy ride. But that is dangerous when you have 500-600 other bikers around you. Hence my new toned down settings and see how the bike reacts. So with my morning commute, the bike had good acceleration. No wheelie popping startup torque, but a nice linear power band. Climbing power on the inclines in the parking garage was good too. I'm going to a 1.6 multiplier soon and see if that buzz(timing issue?) is reproducible or not.

I wouldn't mind less torque, but not what I had to turn it down to, my mac would beat the crap out of it at those levels!

I will try your settings when you report back!

[o00scorpion00o]

I can't believe this,

After playing with the software and going back to 16S I have no problem what so ever with noise and vibration ????

I have the battery current set to 50 amps and that gives me 83 amps after soldering the shunt.

110 amps phase, Super torque!

I've no idea what's going on as I played with this a long time ago on 16S.

I miss the 43 mph, but to be honest, the roads ere are in such disgraceful state it's not safe on a hardtail !

[snellemin]

No good result on mine. My throttle was still cutting off @100% + 60% setting, until pack voltage dropped enough after 3 miles. I'm just going to buy me 4 more of 6s packs and see what happens. I'll stick with 18s2p and mess around with the controller settings again. If I want some speed, I'll go 24s1p.

[o00scorpion00o]

Looks like I spoke too soon, as the vibration is back, just like that. I turned the phase amps down a bit and it's a little better.

I had no problems at all related to high voltage. What do you charge your cells to ? I charged to 4.15 for 99.7 volts.

By the way how do Texas drivers react to you on the middle of the road in traffic ? I wouldn't have the balls. Especially with no brake lights and indicators. I saw one of your videos a while ago. You are a brave man!

I slow down and let drivers pass, usually they are gawking with their mouths open while passing. It's funny the reaction on people's faces.

I love coming up behind children on bicycles passing at 30+ mph. It frightens the be Jesus out of them hahahaha

[snellemin]

So both your and I have intermittent vibration issues. Looks like we both need a bigger controller and/or wait for the new CA.

For ebike use I charge my cells to 4.15V, with my Powerlab 8 chargers. At home I use dual 12V 47A server power supplies and at work I have a single 12V 47A server PSU, to keep the fan noise down a bit. Two get really loud in a small space. I just ordered 4 more 6s packs, for the ease of charging the bike packs at the same time. I figured it was ok, as every fill up of my SUV equals to 100 bucks a week. Batts should be here by next Tuesday. I'm using the Revolectrix Multi-Port Safe Parallel Adapter. I don't like the idea of paralleling balance plugs without some sort of safety fuse. http://www.revolectrix.com/MPA_XH.htm At work I use four Cellpro (JST PA) PowerLab-to-Great Planes (JST XH) or Kokam (JST EH/HR) Safe Parallel Adapters.

Most people seem to like my bike on the road. There are a few idiots here and there, but I don't let that bother me. I always pass them by once they hit traffic ahead of me.