41MPH EVG SX bike with Magic Pie motor

[o00scorpion00o]

Huge fun isn't it pulling 80 amps ?

I just can't for the life of me understand how you have not had the problems I had running sensorsless?

I never could run 150 phase currents, maybe 120 max and even at that I ran into problems on full throttle and it wasn't the pie as exactly the same happened with the conhismotor! So it must have been out of sync problems.

It happened on 16S and 24S LiPo

[Tommy L]

I'm happy pulling 30amps at 87v under that load! Although I'm tempted to move the CA from 28amp to 35 lol.
But I know if I do, I'll use those watts pulling away from every stop!


Tommy L sends... \\m//

[snellemin]

When I have some more time, I'll lower the phase current for a 1:1 battery/phase ratio and work from there. The controller behaves different since I can go up to 99A in battery current with the Keywin program. 80A sure is fun. The Pie does Magic at that power level.
The throttle is not linear, as it was shown to me at work. Towards the end of the throttle you get a spike in the curve going to 100%. That spike causes my issues running at high voltage. I wouldn't have that issue if I could delay the throttle a bit. Basically "smoothing" out the throttle curve and making it adjustable on the fly. The circuit is done, but it needs to be shrunken down and tested. Kinda loaded at work to make it happen right now.

BTW, I had out of sync issues(buzzing) during my weekend testing with Lyen program. Didn't have it when going up in battery current using the Keywin. But I just need more time to mess around with it.

So far my two lower speed settings are perfect.

[Tommy L]

Damn, now you got me wanting a 26" pie pretty badly. I haven't tried mine on 24S yet but on 20S i am only hitting 32mph fully charged.

The upside is that it does go like a rocket. I had to tune the phase amps down because wheelies were a major issue. Despite that, it's not an optimal setup

At 80 amps x 24S, you are pushing almost as much power as i did - 8kW @ 65A x 30S ( 115v nominal ). I am a little stunned yours has lived though due to the larger diameter. I'd like to see what kind of winding temps you are seeing - have you installed a temp sensor yet?

These motors are sleepers and are totally under appreciated. I can't seem to convince golden motor to make a slightly faster wind.. cuz that could dominate pretty much all ebike hub motors other than the 53xx, 54xx, and greyborg hubzilla.

Hey there NEPTRONIX!

I watched your Pie video. Did you have a Delta/Wye switch in that Pie? Sounded like you get up to a certain speed then hit a switch.
And what controller for 115v? I'm just about to purchase the 18fet 4115 from Lyen so I can go above 100v. Some here on the forum say
speed just use a faster wind and stay under 100v and use 4110 fets. I like HV..... Your thoughts?

And so this doesn't look like a high jack.... I'm thinking of getting a Magic Pie. do you know the winding count? I'm guess 7 or 8?

Tommy L sends...

[neptronix]

Hey Tommy.

No, i do not have a delta switch That's the 3 speed switch that comes standard with cell_man's throttles. I hit my 100% speed switch in that video because i was nervous about wheelies initially ( the phase amp to battery amp ratio was set way too high from the factory )... i love how it just kicks you in the pants from 60% to 100%.. that powerband is nice and wide

The 4115 18FET is how i get up to 130v fully charged.
You guys are pushing your 26" pies pretty freaking hard on 24S doing 45mph or over - i think you will hit up against a limit much further than that. My big 8kW is just a peak, sustained i only see 2000-3500w going such low speeds.

I don't know what the turn count is on the pie, but they use the same winding for every size wheel, and the smaller the wheel, the better. It's close to the Crystalyte HT or the nine continent 2810 i believe.. 18mph on 36v with a 26" wheel.

Hey there NEPTRONIX!

I watched your Pie video. Did you have a Delta/Wye switch in that Pie? Sounded like you get up to a certain speed then hit a switch.
And what controller for 115v? I'm just about to purchase the 18fet 4115 from Lyen so I can go above 100v. Some here on the forum say
speed just use a faster wind and stay under 100v and use 4110 fets. I like HV..... Your thoughts?

And so this doesn't look like a high jack.... I'm thinking of getting a Magic Pie. do you know the winding count? I'm guess 7 or 8?

Tommy L sends...

[Tommy L]

Hey Tommy.

No, i do not have a delta switch That's the 3 speed switch that comes standard with cell_man's throttles. I hit my 100% speed switch in that video because i was nervous about wheelies initially ( the phase amp to battery amp ratio was set way too high from the factory )... i love how it just kicks you in the pants from 60% to 100%.. that powerband is nice and wide

The 4115 18FET is how i get up to 130v fully charged.
You guys are pushing your 26" pies pretty freaking hard on 24S doing 45mph or over - i think you will hit up against a limit much further than that. My big 8kW is just a peak, sustained i only see 2000-3500w going such low speeds.

I don't know what the turn count is on the pie, but they use the same winding for every size wheel, and the smaller the wheel, the better. It's close to the Crystalyte HT or the nine continent 2810 i believe.. 18mph on 36v with a 26" wheel.

I can understand why you use the 3speed switch. The 2810 in the 26" wheel can lift the front up a bit without yanking up on the handle bars. lol
With the 20" wheel....I guess it would toss you off the back.

[neptronix]

Dude, the first time i plugged in a 33a 9FET / 57v ( 15S ), it was doing wheelies right off the bat. I have heavy BMX handlebars titled very far forward & down low for a reason

[Tommy L]

Dude, the first time i plugged in a 33a 9FET / 57v ( 15S ), it was doing wheelies right off the bat. I have heavy BMX handlebars titled very far forward & down low for a reason

Awhhhh man.... you Duded me! lol

[snellemin]

DUDE!!!

[Tommy L]

DUDE!!!

Dang! Double Duded! lmao!
\\m// double rock horns! \\m//

Tommy L sends....
(hmmmmm, Have I posted enough yet to be more than a watch battery? lol)

[neptronix]

Dude, the first time i plugged in a 33a 9FET / 57v ( 15S ), it was doing wheelies right off the bat. I have heavy BMX handlebars titled very far forward & down low for a reason

Awhhhh man.... you Duded me! lol

I'm from the west coast. It is a term of endearment.

[snellemin]

Dude. Highest Amp reading thus far.

[neptronix]

Wow. Little shocked that your 12FET has survived. Probably low phase amps huh...

You need to put a temp sensor on that thing bad, so we can feel it's suffering, dudeski

[snellemin]

Phase amps was set at 150A. I have a fan on the controller.

As of last nite, I set the phase Amps to 105 and battery Amps at 95. Bike still feels good at those settings and will leave it as such. Weather is bad this morning, so back into the car to work.

[snellemin]

I got my throttle delay today. This is the second prototype if you can call it that. The delay can be tuned from 1-10 seconds. Rise time is slow and drop time is fast. This should help with my high power sensorless setup cutting out when running on the 100% speed setting.
All that is needed from the end user, is too install a 1k ohm resistor on the signal wire and tap into the positive and negative throttle wires. As you can see, the module is really compact.

[Tommy L]

Dude. Highest Amp reading thus far.

Yawwwwwwhhhhhhhh! and Dude, you hit 125amps!
I'm just about to plug my updated pack 28S1P to 36S1P into my new Lyen 18fet 4115
I won't hit 125amps but my nominal pack volts are 115v I'm going for RPM out of my
9C 2810. 40mph on 28S1P. Hoping for 50mph on my 36S1P backpack.
New pics up on my Hoolagan build.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Tommy L]

40S1P 128v nom Pack!

with Lyen 18Fet 4115 ....

How's your project?

Tommy L sends..... \\m//

[snellemin]

Enjoyed the vid man. That was a nice quick ride.

[Tommy L]

Enjoyed the vid man. That was a nice quick ride.

\\m//

[Blackssr]

@ OP
Your post about EVG ebike inspired me to do the same. I purchased on ebay ,a like new, 24 volt model for $ 50.00. I converted to 20S3P with 1000 Watt ebay kit and Lyen 12Fet controller, 3 speed switch and CA DP. I had to put an 80 mm high speed fan "angled" under the controller to keep it cool while running under load. The Air exhausts out the " seat post area" with the force of a blow dryer. I set the controller to 35/85 amps and have a top speed on 43 mph on flat ground. I am in Florida so no hills here.

I have a couple of questions for you if I may.

1) I seem to be eating rear tires rather quickly. Less than 300 miles. I ordered the Michelin Pilots that you have in the photos. Are you happy with them?
2) I have the 1420i charger and charge in 2 stages: 14S and 6S. This takes about 3 hours for about 10 amp/hours of use. Do you know of a way to charge the entire pack as a whole with balancing? Can this even be done?
3) Where did you buy the switch with the Horn, light and power?

Regards, and thanks in advance

Mike

[Tommy L]

2) I have the 1420i charger and charge in 2 stages: 14S and 6S. This takes about 3 hours for about 10 amp/hours of use. Do you know of a way to charge the entire pack as a whole with balancing? Can this even be done?


Regards, and thanks in advance

Mike

Hey Mike!

Lots of threads here on the charging subject in the battery section I believe. But from what I've read and what I do......

Parallel your packs and get a parallel JST-XH board as well. Not sure how your 14s pack is configured? 2 7s? and then the 1 6s?
Most will stick to a 6S config pack and series them for their voltage then parallel for their capacity.
The way you charge is to reconfigure and bring the series down and do more parallels then parallel the JST-XH thru a board or pigtails.

example: if you have 8 6s packs and you series and parallel for riding in a 24s2p config then for charging you reconfig the pack from
the 24s2p to a 12s4p to charge

I hope this helps.... BE CAREFUL and KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

[Blackssr]

2) I have the 1420i charger and charge in 2 stages: 14S and 6S. This takes about 3 hours for about 10 amp/hours of use. Do you know of a way to charge the entire pack as a whole with balancing? Can this even be done?


Regards, and thanks in advance

Mike

Hey Mike!

Lots of threads here on the charging subject in the battery section I believe. But from what I've read and what I do......

Parallel your packs and get a parallel JST-XH board as well. Not sure how your 14s pack is configured? 2 7s? and then the 1 6s?
Most will stick to a 6S config pack and series them for their voltage then parallel for their capacity.
The way you charge is to reconfigure and bring the series down and do more parallels then parallel the JST-XH thru a board or pigtails.

example: if you have 8 6s packs and you series and parallel for riding in a 24s2p config then for charging you reconfig the pack from
the 24s2p to a 12s4p to charge

I hope this helps.... BE CAREFUL and KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

Tom,

Thanks for reply.

I am at the moment charging/balancing 14s3p at once with a custom cable I made for the 1420i. I was asking if there is a way to charge/balance the entire 20s3p at once using a different setup. I leave the entire 20s3p on the bike and charge 14s3p and 6s3p seperately but still connected. I would like to make a custom 20s cable and charge / balance the entire pack but not sure if it can even be done.

Regards,

Mike

[parajared]

I have had a mostly good experience my magic pie 2. It's easier to install larger phase wires than 9c due to the open shaft design. It takes less time to shed heat off than 9c, and it heats up less quickly than 9c on the uphills (I may change my mind once my 2810 9c arrives).

I have broken spokes on my pie and not my 9c, and I have burnt up hall sensors on both 9c and magic pie.

I was hoping to go to sensorless, but it sounds like you fellas are having trouble with your controllers. Do you think sensorless is worth the jump?

[o00scorpion00o]

I have had a mostly good experience my magic pie 2. It's easier to install larger phase wires than 9c due to the open shaft design. It takes less time to shed heat off than 9c, and it heats up less quickly than 9c on the uphills (I may change my mind once my 2810 9c arrives).

I have broken spokes on my pie and not my 9c, and I have burnt up hall sensors on both 9c and magic pie.

I was hoping to go to sensorless, but it sounds like you fellas are having trouble with your controllers. Do you think sensorless is worth the jump?

Not for more than 2500-3kw of power no.

I had terrible problems with mine over 3kw full throttle. I would get this really bad out of sync noise and vibration.

[snellemin]

I don't get any sync issues with my current setup. But I see Lyen selling 18fet sensorless controllers now.

I use a sensorless 6 fet on my other bike on the mtb trails. A sensored setup would be ideal on those trails at times. But I pedal mostly and am not lazy enough to bitch about startup issues, when it only takes a inch of movement to get the bike moving under power.