The E-cumbent - A project by Matt Shumaker

[recumpence]

Here is a close up of that area.

Matt

[recumpence]

I am not sure if I covered this or not. But, I wanted to share something cool about this controller;

It is a constant RPM controller. I have found that I never lose more than 1 or 2 mph (3 is the most I have seen) when I go from flats to up hills. Basically, if I keep the throttle constant (easy with my thumb wheel throttle) and then continue up a hill, the controller kicks in alot more power to mantain constant speed. As I mentioned earlier, the bike only slows down a very small amount (1 or 2 mph) up hills. The most extreme case of this is a 1/10 mile long steep up hill (very tough to pedal up). I was cruising at 26 mph on the flat before the hill. The bike only slowed to 23 mph as teh controller kicks in much more power.

I am liking this thing!

Matt

[recumpence]

So, I just heard from the 4th bicycle/e-bike manufacturer about my bike. Boy, my ego sure is getting stroked!

They had 3 specific questions for me regarding power transmission and drive systems. I am busy for the next month doing a big job shop project. But, after that, we are supposed to be getting together to work on their power system (for an electric trike they are designing).

There sure does seem to be a pent-up desire for new, different e-bike drives.

Matt

[TylerDurden]

So, I just heard from the 4th bicycle/e-bike manufacturer about my bike.

Beware of anyone associate with the geezer trike called "Raptor".

[recumpence]

No kidding.

This is a new company I haven't heard of before.

Matt

[GGoodrum]

Geez, I can't believe I've missed this thread, especially since I've known Matt for several years. The helicopter he mentions a couple of times is an absolute work of art, with a number of extremely innovative features. The metal work is beautiful, very polished, with a high "bling" factor.

I'm not surprised the Maxamp 10Ah packs are so light. These are mid-range, form a performance point-of-view, but pretty affordable, when compared to the 30C+ higher-end stuff. One caution I would have is that might want to consider adding an LVC capability, as it is quite easy to run these down to where they dump, and that will kill these LiPo cells just as easy as the LiFePO4-type cells most are using around here for Lithium-based solutions.

My actual first foray into the ebike realm was trying to adapt an RC-based setup as well, although it was caveman crude, by Matt's lofty standards. This first one used a Hacker A60-18L outrunner, and a modified geared reduction, based on using glass-impregnated nylon gears, from one of the larger helicopters we play with:





The Controller is an uber-expensive ($400) Kontronix Power Jazz 63V model, which is good for 120A continuous, and 200A peaks. It too is USB-programmable, like the CC PHX HV 110, although it doesn't have quite as many options.

What I did was mount this on the down tube on my Townie, and then had the secondary shaft sprocket drive the large chainring. Although it worked, it just had too much power for the geared setup. I switched to a belt drive, but shreaded the belts in quick order. Way too much power.

I then switched to a different setup, using a big inrunner motor, from Steve Neu (http://www.neumotors.com), which had a hefty (by RC standards...) 6.75:1 planetary gearbox:





This solved the gear stripping/belt shredding problem, but this beast is $500, without the gearbox, which is another $200, I think.

In the end, it was not having a freewheel up front that got me off of this path, and into the big Clytes. I've always had it in the back of my mind, though, that making use of the existing bike gearing, to get the torque advantage, is still a better way to go, mainly because you can get away with a smaller/lighter motor. This is why I bought the Cyclone 1000W kit, although I haven't had any time to do anything with it just yet. In any case, after I get the first one of these done, and find where the inevitable pitfalls/weaknesses are, I would eventually like to revisit trying an RC-based solution.

In any case, great work, Matt. As usual, the quality of the work is amazing. I can't wait to hear more about your fine-tuning and tweaking. I know you will keep changing things here and there, making small improvements. Such is your nature.

-- Gary

[safe]

So, I just heard from the 4th bicycle/e-bike manufacturer about my bike. Boy, my ego sure is getting stroked!

The future of ebikes will involve what you are doing.

Period.

If I were you I'd ride it while it's hot....

[recumpence]

Thanks Safe.

Gary,

I like the big Neu motor. Do you still have it? Feel like parting with it?

I am working continuously on my bike. I love it, for sure. The only bug to cure is the darn AXI back EMF annoyance. Eventually I will get a different motor or ESC to try out.

Matt

[safe]

http://www.neumotors.com/20061222/Gear_Drives.html

The P32 gear drives can handle props up to 20 inches and 3000 watts.
The P42 drive is best suited for systems over 3000 watts and turning props up to 30 inches in diameter and 5000 watts.
The P62 is suitable for well over 10,000 watts.



Why not use these?

[Link]

Damn, those last two reductions cost more than I paid for my motor.

[GGoodrum]

The P62 is what is on the 2215-3Y pictured above. It is a beast, compared to what I'm used to seeing with these type of gearboxes, and uses high-quality needle bearings internally. I believe these come from Germany, or Switzerland, I can't remember. In any case, the combo should be able to supply plenty of power. Steve is famous for building extremely efficient motors. He uses only the highest quality steel in the stators, and the best magnets available. The stators are hand-wound.

The kV of this motor is 480 rpm/volt, so with the 6.75:1 reduction, it would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for the Cyclone 1000W motor. At 52V this spins at about 21000 rpm, which is coasting for this motor, which can go as high as 60,000 rpm. I know Steve has tested them even higher. So "overvolting" them is not an issue, but geting an RC-type controller to go beyond about 60V could be a problem. Castle Creations was working on a 100V/200A model, and Steve was testing the prototype, but I don't see it listed on CC's site, so I'm not sure whatever happened to it. The Power Jazz controller I have is rated to 63V, and the "HV" versions of the Phoenix controllers will work fine with a typical 16s LiFePO4 48V setup.

There is now a 2230 version of this motor available, which has a stator that is twice the length of the 2215. Steve uses a simple naming convention fo his motors, the first two digits are the stator diameter and the second two are the stator length, so the 2215 has a stator diameter of 2.2" and a length of 1.5". The 2230 is easily capable of supplying 10kW continuously, so I'm thinking this could be something to try instead of an eTek, or a MARS, in a motorcycle-type conversion. The P62 can also handle 10kW as well.

Anyway, fun stuff. I'm definitely going to give the 2215/P62 setup a "spin", hopefully in the not so distant future.

-- Gary

[Ypedal]

Hey Gary.. have you ever tried those RC controllers on your X5's ?

[GGoodrum]

Hey Gary.. have you ever tried those RC controllers on your X5's ?

No,I haven't, but most of mine are setup for 72V right now, and that's a problem for the RC controllers. I'm not sure how wel the algorithems used in the sensorless RC controllers would work with a heavy x5. They normally make the motor "chirp" when powering up, which is caused by small motor movements backa and forth. Once on, though, they have no problem figuring out where the motor is in its rotation. Like Matt, I've never seen one have a problem accelerating from a stop, once the controller is first turned on.

-- Gary

[safe]

The 2230 is easily capable of supplying 10kW continuously, so I'm thinking this could be something to try instead of an eTek, or a MARS, in a motorcycle-type conversion. The P62 can also handle 10kW as well.

That's well more than needed for an ebike.

And your mention of Germany and Switzerland is no surprise... that's why I was saying it would be a "Swiss Watch" transmission.

That part of the world takes pride in that sort of thing.

[recumpence]

Just took the plunge and ordered the Terminator.

http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg_terminator.htm

Expensive bugger!

It will be here in a week.

I will post pics and comparison with my AXI when it arrives.

Matt