My 48v 500W Cruiser Chopper Project

[chopper_elec]

Wow thank you for both of your replies. I have found out that the kit I was after in ebay spec is going to set me back $500us including postage which is pretty expensive. Thats just for a hub motor with rim and tyre, 48v controller and a hand twist throttle.

I have sent off an email enquiring about a motor package. I have no problems spending a bit more for a better setup. In the end i'd love a setup that allows me to ride the bicycle like a bicycle, and any other time with power on it helps me out.

I'd love to upgrade the rear brake at some stage, the idea of a freewheeling rear wheel will be fantastic. Not to mention the less weight.

My only issue is having to find a suitable rear hub motor that would fit neatly in my wide forks, considering there is a 4.25" tyre in the back its quite a bit of space.

I'd love to convert the bicycle to use a 6-7 speed system on the rear. It would make those hills a lot easier.

You know you have a good e-bike when you are happy to ride it without the motor haha. This would be one of the longest projects ever (without actually getting any progress) haha.

I am having some trouble with finding a pannier/bicycle rack that would suit my rather large rear tyre space.

I'm wondering if the increase to 1000w would make much difference from the 500w? I'm thinking it will be a bit less noticable that way if I got a 500w instead.

Optimally i'll be looking at a top speed of around 35km an hour.

[AussieJester]

Seems there's alot of faffing about, asking and re-asking same questions, just fit the motor you have use the torque arm a and ride the bike, it will work fine....if you want a rear hub, talk to Es member cell_man he sells Mac motors for a better price than you're finding on Ebay, he's a trusted seller ..has quality motors and batteries...

KiM

[chopper_elec]

Seems there's alot of faffing about, asking and re-asking same questions, just fit the motor you have use the torque arm a and ride the bike, it will work fine....if you want a rear hub, talk to Es member cell_man he sells Mac motors for a better price than you're finding on Ebay, he's a trusted seller ..has quality motors and batteries...

KiM

yeah there has been a fair bit of re-asking from my part, I think i'm just moreso concerned about those dropouts failing under the torque with that 48v 500w motor of mine.

My only real issue at the moment is mounting the battery, I wanted to mount it on the back above the back wheel with a rear bicycle rack but I was not able to find one that would suit as yet.

That means I can actually go out next week and test it out yay. Like anything, projects are things that can be worked on in time. There is no reason to not try out my hub motor.

I think its all the reading up that i've done that has scared me to any dangers involved in the torque arm. I will machine a little diamond piece this week for the drop outs and actually enjoy the thing

Thanks Aussie

[chopper_elec]

I have so far been in contact with about 5-6 suppliers so far discussing options to source out a 20"x4.25" rear wheel but so far there had been no prevail.

With a bit of luck I was contacting conhis motors regarding the specs and motor that I was after, to which they were able to make up a custom one with those sizes and even include a tyre and the rest of the kit goodies.

The price should be around $430 including express shipping which is a pretty good price compared to the others i've been looking at which were over $500.

I'm hoping to get cruise control and i'll be set.

I do have an opportunity to up the power from 500w to 750 or 1000w but at the moment i'm hoping to try still get longetivity.

Am I likely to feel the difference that much with a direct drive in comparision to a hub? In the articles i've read the resistance is similar to running a mountain bike style tyre.

I'm nearly there, to be honest i'm much happier to know that i'm getting the correct size rear hub, it will look a bit less obvious on an already obvious bike haha.

I went for a good 20km ride over the weekend through a park close by. I really only struggled up the hills. I have one of those cheap speedos and i'm not sure where the instructions are for calibrating it. On the screen it comes up with a range of numbers from 100-250 but in my measurements of the wheel I couldn't figure out what this number was to put in for the radius of the wheel?

[Architectonic]

Seems there's alot of faffing about, asking and re-asking same questions, just fit the motor you have use the torque arm a and ride the bike, it will work fine....if you want a rear hub, talk to Es member cell_man he sells Mac motors for a better price than you're finding on Ebay, he's a trusted seller ..has quality motors and batteries...

Agreed. Ride what you have, worry about changes later.

The Conhis motors are probably going to be geared too slow for a 20" rim. I would go for a Cell Man 6T MAC and lace the rim yourself, or take it to a bike shop. I'm not a fan of low power direct drive motors at all, the advantage of the geared motors is they ride like a normal bike when the motor is off.

(assuming the dropout width of your bike is standard - otherwise rear hub motors are not such a great idea)

[chopper_elec]

Yeah my only issue has been finding a hub motor that will fit in the very wide 175mm dropouts.

[Scruffoid]

Dont limit the power to 500W when they can give it 1000W.

You limit the power yourself by how far you turn the throttle, the extra power will surely come in handy.

Why have a Ferrari and then speed limit it to only 100Km/Hr.

Just my opinion.

Wayne

[chopper_elec]

Dont limit the power to 500W when they can give it 1000W.

You limit the power yourself by how far you turn the throttle, the extra power will surely come in handy.

Why have a Ferrari and then speed limit it to only 100Km/Hr.

Just my opinion.

Wayne

My only issue is having the tempation to go faster on a cheap bike lol. I was thinking that the 750w or 1000w might be too much amp draw for my lifepo4 48v 16ah battery

[Scruffoid]

I have no idea how you battery is wired up etc but i would suggest that in a 16AH configuration that it is running multiple cells in Parallel and based upon that alone the amperage to supply 1000 W at 48 Volts is 1000/48 = 20 Amps. I think youll find that 20Amps wouldnt even make the batteries stress at all.

You worry way to much about stuff. Just build it get it running and start enjoying it.

1000W of power is nothing, you can pedal it with that much power with your feet. A human can produce some serious power its just for small bursts. Isnt it something like So it will all be good on your bike.

Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 W/kg; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race.

So get off you bum plug it all together on the bike adn show us a picture of the thing put together and your grin of riding it.

[chopper_elec]

I have no idea how you battery is wired up etc but i would suggest that in a 16AH configuration that it is running multiple cells in Parallel and based upon that alone the amperage to supply 1000 W at 48 Volts is 1000/48 = 20 Amps. I think youll find that 20Amps wouldnt even make the batteries stress at all.

You worry way to much about stuff. Just build it get it running and start enjoying it.

1000W of power is nothing, you can pedal it with that much power with your feet. A human can produce some serious power its just for small bursts. Isnt it something like So it will all be good on your bike.

Elite track sprinters are able to attain an instantaneous maximum output of around 2,000 watts, or in excess of 25 W/kg; elite road cyclists may produce 1,600 to 1,700 watts as an instantaneous maximum in their burst to the finish line at the end of a five-hour long road race.

So get off you bum plug it all together on the bike adn show us a picture of the thing put together and your grin of riding it.

Haha yeah I sure do worry a lot. I have made my order from Conhis, I would have loved to try through Cell-Man but its been a while and hadn't heard from them.

I have my order below. The 25amp controller will more likely put the motor into the 800w realm if I have calculated correctly, but the speed controller will cut out at no more than 25amp which is good.

I'll actually record a video on that first acceleration lol.

Assembled Hub Wheel:
48v 500W 20" x4.25" Wide Rim, Spoked and Assembled with Tyre and Tube

Motor Controller Specs:
New Style 48v Max 25amp Controller and Controller Bag

Throttle:
Twist Throttle with Key and matching Handlebar Grip for Non throttle side

[Sacman]

You worry way to much about stuff. Just build it get it running and start enjoying it.

So get off you bum plug it all together on the bike adn show us a picture of the thing put together and your grin of riding it.

+1 I agree with Scruffoid and Aussie Jester... Chopper_elec you worry too much about small stuff.

Yeah my only issue has been finding a hub motor that will fit in the very wide 175mm dropouts.

Not too big of an issue at all. Even the small BMC/MAC geared hubmotors will fit onto your 175mm dropouts. Just use a nut and stacked washers between the axle shoulders and your dropouts. See... the outer nuts still have the majority of their threads on the axle.

And this is without even squeezing the frame so the distance between the dropouts is shorter by 5-10mm. You can easily do this by reducing the stack of washers between the axle shoulders and your frame's dropouts. So when you finally tighten the outer nuts this will clamp down and squeeze your frame) and eventually narrow down that dropout distance.




It's even easier to get a full sized DD hubmotor (like the 9 Continents motor) to fit as the axles are even longer.
See... those longer axles give plenty of room for the motor to fit in between your 175mm dropouts.

My only issue is having the tempation to go faster on a cheap bike lol. I was thinking that the 750w or 1000w might be too much amp draw for my lifepo4 48v 16ah battery

Again not really and issue at all. Been there, done that... and many other members have done the same. Unless you've bought a super-cheap, low-quality battery pack from an unknown Chinese vendor, a 16ah pack should be enough to power a 1000w motor/controller setup.

But lets talk about what would happen if you did buy a battery pack that was underpowered for your motor/controller. What's the worst that could happen? You would see voltage sag under heavy heavy acceleration or full-throttle, and have a reduced top speed. Maybe you'll even feel your battery pack warming up. These relatively small problems don't hurt the motor or controller and pretty much goes away once you ease up on the throttle or eventually replace the battery pack with a better (more powerful) one.

[chopper_elec]

Thanks for the heads up. I ended up putting an order for the Conhis kit, its not so much that the idea above wouldn't work (and I am likely to have still got an inferior product to the mac motors) but I just wanted to get something that would sit in closer to the original hub without the need for the spacers. I was lucky enough to get it with the rim tyre (i needed a rear spare) and spokes all ready to put in.

I will be able to finally get the kit on and take the bike for a spin within about 2 weeks or so which is fantastic news. The kit I ordered has 170-175mm dropouts so I will be able to space it out slightly to fit in if required. I'll run the controller under the seat. its only the battery position that I need to investigate in. I may need to modify a rear luggage rack on the rear to fit not only the width but also the right height on the back.

I hear that the forces on the rack are considerably amplified at e-bike capable speeds especially with a 7-10kg weight.

My long term plan is to use the 48v 16ah battery eventually mounted to the rear trailer and get a smaller 10ah 48v for around town (in hope to mount it somewhere to the frame neatly.

The main reason i've been umming and aahing so much is mainly due to how serious I get into interests. I seem incredibly passionate about e-bikes and the technology associated. if my repeated questions are any indication of my interest i'm sure to stick around here for a long time to come haha.

I'm aiming to rack up a fair few kms and one day join the 1000 mile club yay

[chopper_elec]

After much reading and advice I also made a new purchase

It should arrive this week with a bit of luck. I'll have a blast installing it and it will provide invaluable data. i will be investing in a data logger at some stage too.

[chopper_elec]

I've been having fun tonight designing my indicator/horn and headlight assembly.

I got a handy program called circuit wizard which is fantastic at designing and testing circuits:

So far so good. I'll start by routing the wires tomorrow and mounting the headlights.

[amberwolf]

Looks like an interesting program. Question: In the Relay symbol, it has three connections on top and two on bottom. Usually a relay uses the two for it's control, the coil, and three for it's load--one Common center, one Normally Open, and one Normally Closed. So I'm curious if that program does or doesn't do it that way, or if it is simply not using the likely more intuitive layout of grouping the control and load connections separately?

[chopper_elec]

Hey mate, thanks for that. I was not sure the pinouts of the program relay but I wired it in the same way I used to with for lights, if i remember correctly I used it as a 4 pin relay, where the relay was powered with +which was controlled by the switch and - directly from the battery.

The relay was then used to provide a direct input from the battery which through the relay would be normally open, when the 12v was applied by completing the switch connection it would close the circuit. This way the switch wouldn't be taking the main load of the headlight, only to provide a small amount of 12v to power the relay

[chopper_elec]

I got started today with some scrap 7 core wire that I found lying around, so I decided to strip the insulation around it and started to route the wires around the frame. I believe i’ll need 3 relays so far, 1 for the horn, one flasher relay for the indicators and one for the front head light. I’m still debating the need for a relay on the front headlight due to the tiny 1 amp draw on it.

I found the perfect spot to put the relays. Under the seat there is a considerable amount of space to hide the relays and other bits of electronics required so it should be a really neat install (except for the main wires to the horn/indicator/light switch itself)



Here hs my faithful trailer on the back of my chopper. I reassembled the fabric portion after attempting to dye the fabric. I believe the fabric itself is coated with a waterproof material and this could have stopped the dye from sticking. The windows did tint up nicely though haha



Visible below is the switch that I bought off ebay for the headlight, indicator and horn. The unit fits really nicely over the brake lever

[chopper_elec]

I made a bit more progress today and it seems like my wallet took a bit of a beating haha.

I bought a whole bunch of bolts for the torque arms and the P clamps that will be used to hold on various other components to the frame.

I ended up mounting the headlight, i've used the 2 fork tubes with the use of a pair of P clamps. The ends of the P clamps had to be grinded away as it was fouling against the mounting points on the headlight, I got to use my new vice finally (i've always wanted one) and was happy to see that the bench in the garage has 2 holes already drilled to mount the vice. It still needs some work and i'll need to align it downwards a bit more.







Here I am doing some wiring at the front of the bike. I am still working out how I will route the wires. At the moment I am using 7 core trailer wire which supports 5 amps per wire.





Here is a pic of under the seat where I will mount the required relays.


My Cycle Analyst Arrived today, it is huge. I was expecting a tiny little screen but this is massive haha.


I was working on a way to daisy chain the earth wires for the micro relays that I bought. I was thinking of using a Y shape (but with 3 wires) for the positive input wire (the one that supplies the actual light, horn etc) to ensure that each relay will get a solid supply. Even with the indicators and headlight on full I am not likely to use more than 2amps in total. The horn will still need to be worked out.



A better photo of my awesome kids trailer which has been "tinted" with black fabric dye haha

[Scruffoid]

I dunno I cant see a trailer all i see is a workbench

[chopper_elec]

I dunno I cant see a trailer all i see is a workbench

Haha I always seem to mix around the photos.

I got word from the supplier that my motor kit is nearly ready, cinhis has been fantastic to deal with and also arranged to supply a wide tube and tyre for me.

Hopefully I can finish my torque plates before it arrives.
I might test out my cycle analyst today too

[Sacman]

[/quote]

Question: In the Relay symbol, it has three connections on top and two on bottom. Usually a relay uses the two for it's control, the coil, and three for it's load--one Common center, one Normally Open, and one Normally Closed. So I'm curious if that program does or doesn't do it that way, or if it is simply not using the likely more intuitive layout of grouping the control and load connections separately?

Hmmm... I was thinking the same thing myself. On a standard 5-terminal relay, typically the (+) and (-) terminals for the coil are grouped together on a relay and the COM, NC, and NO terminals form another group as shown...

[Sacman]

But the 4-terminal relays that are used (shown in the pics) don't have the NC terminal so it looks like this...

[Sacman]

You could stick a flasher unit on the turn indicator lights too...

[chopper_elec]

Hey All,

its been a while since i've made my last post, i've been super into pedal power on my new road bike and got my ebike buzz back now (after i'm so exhausted all the time lol)

I have been speaking with Jason at Conhis motor and he has been absolutely awesome to deal with. He has made me a custom 20x4.25" 48v 500w hub motor package and it looks stunning.

I can highly recommend anyone looking at getting any custom work to definitely have a chat.





I am still not quite happy with my current battery supply since it is quite wide. I may end up putting this 48v 15ah in the trailer and get another 48v 10ah or better laid out 48v 15ah to take its place on the frame itself.

[chopper_elec]

Hey all,

Just a quick update. I have test fit the hub wheel and so far everything seems nice and neat. I routed the wires to the controller and disconnected the pas sensor and brake levers with the switches. The new conhis meter has a 5 step battery indicator and a key switch (which feels like a real motorbike now haha).

The controller is luckily the same size as the previous one that I had, so this will sit very neatly just in front of the back wheel.

I'm still a bit iffy about the battery that I have here, i'm sure its fine but its just the wrong size to fit somewhere on the frame.