Supertux1's First eBike: Yet Another Commuter

I have been lurking for awhile reading many threads and putting together my first eBike. I tried to maximize stealth, utility and range.

Started off with a $319 donor bike from bikesdirect.com:


A few miscellaneous upgraded bike components later...

(EDIT: Most Current Images Here...)




Added one of cellman's kits. A MAC 10T, 50v 18.5Ah (14s9p) LiMNC Triangle Pack, CAv3, 12 FET 3077 Infineon Controller:

(I had a problem with the kit at first and cellman came through and I highly recommend his products.)

The rack is actually made for 29" frames and I use the extra couple of inches to hide the controller and wiring:


I encased all wires in rubber (old tube) and I used a black Radio Shack project box as a junction box to hide and protect the connectors:


The controller is mounted upside down using some hard wood supports (painted black) attached to P brackets under the rack:


I encased the battery in some yard sign material and duct tape and put some foam around the corners and pressure points. I can remove it easily with no tools to take with me in to stores or to charge at work. It can even fit in my pannier bags for extra stealth.


Drip loop and rubber cover. There's a Grin Tech rear torque arm on the other side. Nord-lock washers. I used a car tire iron to tighten.


A heavy duty double kickstand. Best investment ever. This facilitates loading and unloading of the battery and pannier bags and working on the bike. When the front is weighted, the rear wheel is off the ground and I can play with throttle settings without worrying about the bike taking off:


The tire system. Kenda K838 Slicks, Planet Bike Fenders, Extra Thick Slime Tubes, RhinoDillos Tire Liners, four spoke magnets. I hate flat tires!


The controller is mounted to the rack in a way that does not interfere with the rack or its mounting system:


With the pannier bags unfolded, the controller cannot be seen and is protected from rain etc:


Screens from my last ride (a night ride in a thunderstorm!):




I used about 3/4 of my battery for that. I only ever use about 3/4 of the capacity, I charge it to %90 and limit the draw to 30A (just under 2C) to preserve the LiMNC chemistry and battery lifecycle. This isn't a LifePO4 so no 2000W speed demon. Most of the time I cruise around using 9 amps (1/2 C)


I use the CAv3 closed loop throttle control, throttle controls total Power (W) used by the controller/motor.
I use a three position switch to set the limit of maximum power to 500W, 1000W and 1500W max.

Some video of my commute:

[youtube]Zl4qWQ9QJ9s[/youtube]

Thanks again for looking!

So you want to know how much this costs and where to get the parts? Here you go.
Note that quite a few of these items are optional luxury items, but make the ride more enjoyable.

TL;DR: Total Cost: $3040

Motor / Motor Mount Parts / Electronics:

Mac 10T w/ Temp / Upgrade Phase, 12 FET Infineon 3077, 50.4V / 18.5Ah LiMNC, CAv3, $1750, cell_man, em3ev

20 9/16" (14mm) NORD LOCK VIBRATION PROOF LOCK WASHERS, eBay: $23.89

7-Speed Trigger Shifter, $15:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MQZD1G/ref=oh_details_o00_s02_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

1 x CA-LOG_GPS, 1 x CA3_Switch, 1 x JSTCrimp, 2 x ConBag, 1 x T-HTwist, $263.38, http://www.ebikes.ca

Bike / Bike Upgrades:

MotoBecane 450 HT Bike, $319:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/450ht_new_xii.htm

Cane Creek ThudBuster Seat Post, $145:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000T3BYH6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Spring Seat, Dicks' Sports, $29

Avid BB7 Disc Brakes , $62, x2:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TV7FHI/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Double Kickstand, $17.50:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NGD5D4/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

IncrediBell, $7:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HH4NMI/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mirrycycle Mirror, $11:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009R96YK/ref=oh_details_o07_s02_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lighting:

1000 Lumen ATC Cree Light, $25.44:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005WPXNQ6/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lens for Cree Light, $5.49:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WLCLQY/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

CygoLite HotShot 2W Tail Light, $25:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DVA57Y/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rack Mount Clip for Cygolite, $6:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009VUB0Q8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rack System / Bags:

Topeak Rack Bag, $79.76:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZKES0S/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Topeak Rack Bag, Cover, $19:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZKAU0A/ref=oh_details_o08_s01_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Topeak Rack, $40.77:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005YPRCMA/ref=oh_details_o07_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Roswheel Stem Bag, $6:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A68UX6M/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Wheels:

Planet Bike MTB Fenders, REI, $40

Kenda Slick Tires, $14.99 x 2:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DX1DWG/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Slime Tube, $13 x 2:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ENQRCI/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Bike Tire Liners, $17.51:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0066DGZKY/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Extra Wheel Magnets, $3 each, Chinese eBay Seller

That looks like a very nice and well thought out build. The ultimate commuter with the rack and panniers to put stuff in. Well done. Wishing you many happy trouble free miles from it.

deffx said:

That looks like a very nice and well thought out build. The ultimate commuter with the rack and panniers to put stuff in. Well done. Wishing you many happy trouble free miles from it.

Click to expand...

Thank You!

Very nice looking bike, we have similar machines and riding style...

I also "lose" stuff on the road - several times my wallet and keys have popped out of my rear bag when i forget to close the zipper, its happened so many times that i now keep them velcro'd to the handlebar so i can keep my eye on them!

Cresh said:

Very nice looking bike, we have similar machines and riding style...

I also "lose" stuff on the road - several times my wallet and keys have popped out of my rear bag when i forget to close the zipper, its happened so many times that i now keep them velcro'd to the handlebar so i can keep my eye on them!

Click to expand...

I put my phone, wallet and keys in the small black/red bag on the top tube so I can wear bike clothes. The bag has a clear top that protects the phone from the weather while allowing it to be operated, I usually have a cycling app or gps map running on it.

One thing that sort of bothers me about my bike is that I never did get the rear disc brakes working without rubbing on the pads. I don't think the motor cover holds the disc exactly true, and I had to use spacers, so there's a lot wobble on the disc. It's noisy but they're effective at stopping so it doesn't really bother me that much. You can hear it in the video though. I replaced the stock brakes with Avid BB7's and sanded down the inner adjustment knob so it wouldn't touch the motor.

Oh the light that bounced off was a cheap tail light that wasn't secured to the bag very well. I've since replaced it with a Cygolite USB rechargeable version mounted to the rack: http://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Hots...=UTF8&qid=1372046252&sr=8-1&keywords=cygolite

Ah wouldn't you know it, but I just realized I broke four spokes in the rear wheel, all in the same quadrant. Rim looks fine though.

I'm pretty sure it's because of the load I carry and that I didn't tighten the spokes when I should have. My bad.

The spokes that come with the MAC 10T in the 26" DM24 Alex Rim are 13 straight gauge (2.3mm), about 194mm by my measure.

I just ordered a bunch of Sapin single butted spokes from wheelbuilder.com and I guess I'll be lacing my first wheel!

I had a similar problem and had to shim the disc. There were two bolts on the caliper that I had to loosen which then allowed me to fine tune the fit. I have a Mac hub and the same battery (or at least the same bag).

majornelson said:

I had a similar problem and had to shim the disc. There were two bolts on the caliper that I had to loosen which then allowed me to fine tune the fit. I have a Mac hub and the same battery (or at least the same bag).

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Problem with my rear disc is that it wobbles and rubs on both pads. I'm not sure if this because the spacer has caused the frame caliper mount posts to go off square or if the hub disc mount isn't square etc... I thought my disc was warped and replaced it, same thing. I'm pretty sure it's probably got something to do with the motor covers not being exactly square with respect to the frame etc...I can't really do the optimal disc caliper tuning thing where the outer one moves 2/3 and the inner 1 is fixed at 1/3. It's a minor annoyance, the brake works fine and I expect to replace pads sooner but it's no big deal. I use the front more anyway. It adds a little noise to the ride but is drowned out by the motor and road noise. I really like the Avid BB7 because I can move both pads without tools and I didn't have to hack up the inner side too much to clear the hub.

I successfully re-laced the wheel after four broken spokes this week. The single butted Sapin spokes worked well. They are 13 gauge (2.3mm) at the flange end and then taper down to the standard 14 gauge at the nipple end. One thing I noticed, because of the large (172mm) diameter of the flanges, some of the spokes enter the rim at a steep angle and put stress on the nipple. When I rebuild the wheel again I will probably do it with an eyeletted rim that allows the nipple to move.

So since I did an accounting of the cost of this bike, and because it looks so sweet, I decided to spend a little money on some security for it.

First, we have a Bully U-Lock with Alarm and Pager. Primarily designed for motorcycles, but has bike applications as well.
Pages you at the bar to come out and kick someone's ass if they mess with your bike, sets off a high decible alarm if broken or jostled.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WJF7FC/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(At work I put it in a secure bike locker.)

Secondary lock. Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit U-Lock
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OZ9VLU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i04?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've also got a cable lock that will connect the two U locks and the seat.

I did some research on bike security and it seems to me like if thieves want a bike, they're gonna get it. Car jacks, angle grinders, giant cable snippers, gone in 15 seconds.

The trick is to make the bike next to yours look like an easier / more valuable / less risky target.

Supertux1 said:

I successfully re-laced the wheel after four broken spokes this week. The single butted Sapin spokes worked well. They are 13 gauge (2.3mm) at the flange end and then taper down to the standard 14 gauge at the nipple end. One thing I noticed, because of the large (172mm) diameter of the flanges, some of the spokes enter the rim at a steep angle and put stress on the nipple. When I rebuild the wheel again I will probably do it with an eyeletted rim that allows the nipple to move.

Click to expand...

Did you change the original 1 x lacing pattern to a 2 X?

jateureka said:

Supertux1 said:

I successfully re-laced the wheel after four broken spokes this week. The single butted Sapin spokes worked well. They are 13 gauge (2.3mm) at the flange end and then taper down to the standard 14 gauge at the nipple end. One thing I noticed, because of the large (172mm) diameter of the flanges, some of the spokes enter the rim at a steep angle and put stress on the nipple. When I rebuild the wheel again I will probably do it with an eyeletted rim that allows the nipple to move.

Click to expand...

Did you change the original 1 x lacing pattern to a 2 X?

Click to expand...

I kept the original pattern. I think the spokes are just too short and the flange holes too widely spaced to do anything else.

The 14 gauge ones take more kindly to flexing at the spoke nipple than the 13 gauge ones. I cranked em down real tight too.
I got about 75 miles on the repaired wheel and so far no problem.

I passed 500 miles this week on this bike!

Amazingly, the tire system is holding up just fine and so are the spokes. No flats or broken spokes.

I spent most of this week's work commute adjusting settings and trying get my Wh / mile as low as possible without pedaling.
I seem to get my best efficiency at 21.3 Wh/mi @ 400W. WOT top speed while limiting the bike to 400W is 20 mph.

So with that figured out, I wanted to see just how far this bike could go, so I ran the battery down to as close as LVC as I dared.

I rode down the Glacial Drumlin Trail here, which is rather long (50 miles!) and flat with no hills and few stops.

Battery is advertised at 50.4V nominal @ 18.5Ah for a total of 932Wh of power.

So I rode for 466Wh one way, turned around rode back.

Here are the numbers:







45 miles @ 20mph!

Great post! Thanks for the video. After watching it, it really makes 30-32mph on a bicycle seem almost the limit. Any faster and you would have 0 time to react to anything that would happen(cars pulling out, bicycle parts breaking).

Im surprised the 10t is netting you 30mph too! I ordered the same battery but the 14ah version. I will be riding it mostly WOT with my 48v yescom DD motor. However if it lacks the torque, I might grab me a 10t mac!

Last question, the samsung battery is only 500+ cycles. If you ride 22 miles everyday, would that only leave you with a battery that will last 1.5 yrs?

1KW said:

Last question, the samsung battery is only 500+ cycles. If you ride 22 miles everyday, would that only leave you with a battery that will last 1.5 yrs?

Click to expand...

Since he is charging it to 90% and not running it dry and not maxing out the C rate, it should last a good long time. Those samsungs are 4C, so he has about 80amp capacity which is a nice headroom. The batteries degrade the most at full charge or at empty, but if you just use the middle part of the battery you should be able to get a good life out of it.

Sweet build by the way, thanks for sharing!

chas58 said:

1KW said:

Last question, the samsung battery is only 500+ cycles. If you ride 22 miles everyday, would that only leave you with a battery that will last 1.5 yrs?

Click to expand...

Since he is charging it to 90% and not running it dry and not maxing out the C rate, it should last a good long time. Those samsungs are 4C, so he has about 80amp capacity which is a nice headroom. The batteries degrade the most at full charge or at empty, but if you just use the middle part of the battery you should be able to get a good life out of it.

Sweet build by the way, thanks for sharing!

Click to expand...

Thanks!

There's lots of threads elsewhere on ES about this LiNMC pack from cell_man, speculation, theory etc... Time will tell for sure. I've ridden mine almost 800 miles now.

I think the consensus is that you can get C rates up to 4 or 5C but at the expense of battery life (500 cycles) and with a voltage drop that is a lot more than other chemistries.

If you are comfortable buying a battery every year and having your top speed drop as you go through the pack, then slap one of these on your multi-KW direct drive motor. (I wouldn't recommend it.)
I believe the battery BMS cuts out at 40A.

It's a good match for the MAC motor because a MAC is happiest at continuous power levels below 1000W but can tolerate higher if you are willing to risk burning it up. (Get a temperature sensor.)

Since my application is a commuter, a car replacement for financial reasons, longevity is my goal, so most of the time I ride around using 16A ( about 1C when charged %90 ) at 20-25 mph.

I use about 5 amps per leg of my commute and I charge at work and at home. So far so good. I hope to get more than 500 cycles.

Nice bike, I noticed your video was pretty smoove, looks like you got thud buster how well is that working for you do you like it? Also maybe it's just your mic but the MAC motor sounds quite loud?

TheBeastie said:

Nice bike, I noticed your video was pretty smoove, looks like you got thud buster how well is that working for you do you like it? Also maybe it's just your mic but the MAC motor sounds quite loud?

Click to expand...

The thudbuster is the next best thing to full suspension. A good compromise for the frame battery. The motor seems loud but that is actually the brake pads dragging. I put some synthetic grease on the gears and it is much quieter now. (Also fixed the brakes.)

More Video:

https://vimeo.com/71670361

Great vid! Your bike has all the bases covered. Conrats!

Nice build, I always like seeing a well-thought out commuter. 8)

The wide empty roads and flat terrain of your 1st video look like ebike nirvana.

-JD

First 1000 miles, still going strong.

Getting close to 1500 miles now. Had to remove the wheel again today. While I was riding I looked down and saw one of the motor cover screws backed out about half way.
I stopped and tightened it, and then realized that two of them were missing and every other one was loose on both sides.

This is the second time I have had that particular issue, the first time it happened I replaced the missing bolts with identical ones from the hardware store. Apparently they are not long enough and/or the Phillips head style doesn't allow enough torque before stripping. I replaced all 12 of the short Phillips head style with M4x10mm, .70mm pitch stainless steel screws and plenty of Loctite. The screw is one of those recessed types that most motors have so, it isn't possible to use a lockwasher. Hopefully it stays put now!

I think the first sign is that the disc brake starts rubbing because the cover comes loose and the disc spins untrue. I think what's happening is the shorter screws don't have much purchase in to the case, maybe only a few mm. During rides the case heats up and is subject to vibration and I think they just sort of work their way out. There's even more sideways shearing force placed on those bolts during acceleration and braking so I think that also contributes.

I'm thinking of getting a 450HT as a Canadian winter commuter with studded tires (I'm not an e-bike person, sorry).

Registered here because your post came up in google searches for the 450 HT.

Anyway, can you post better pictures or an explanation of how you mounted the fender to the fork? All my previous bikes have had eyelets. What are you using? P clamps? Zip ties? It's all black, very hard to see in the picture. I see the fork has a hole at the top like I"m used to, which is good.

Is the fender pretty stable mounted this way? Are you satisfied?

Yossarian33 said:

I'm thinking of getting a 450HT as a Canadian winter commuter with studded tires (I'm not an e-bike person, sorry).

Registered here because your post came up in google searches for the 450 HT.

Anyway, can you post better pictures or an explanation of how you mounted the fender to the fork? All my previous bikes have had eyelets. What are you using? P clamps? Zip ties? It's all black, very hard to see in the picture. I see the fork has a hole at the top like I"m used to, which is good.

Is the fender pretty stable mounted this way? Are you satisfied?

Click to expand...

I used black zip ties for the front fork fender and there is a mounting hole on the fork crossbar that keeps things pretty stable.
The fenders bounce around a bit when going over potholes and stuff but they function and don't fall off.

The front fender mount on the disc side is tricky, its tied down between the brake posts and has to be threaded around the mechanics there.
You could conceivably make a bracket with some small metal "L" shelf mounting brackets that go between the brake and the post.
On the right side though, there's nothing, so just a zip tie. The planet bike fenders let you adjust the position of the fender shield with some
nuts that slide along the wire so you can position it any distance from the tire.

There are eyelets and a seat stay crossbar mount for the rear fender.

EDIT: Oh as a general bike the 450 HT is not impressive. The front fork suspension is garbage and it has rather low end components for everything else.
For a $320 bike shipped, you get what you pay for. The reason why I bought it is that it has a 7005 aluminum frame and an 8 speed chain/derailer that
mates well with the freewheels that are on most hub motors, also has mounts for disc brakes, which I threw out and replaced immediately.

I agree the bike is pretty damn low-end. The roads are salted here in winter and it's really corrosive. It'll be my first winter bike commuting, and I want a "disposable" bike. My normal commuter is the 2011 Kona Dew Plus which is pretty nice and I don't want to ruin it.

I won't even buy BB7's because I don't want them ruined by salt. I fully expect to either trash the bike after 1-2 seasons, or need to replace the entire drivetrain. And I don't expect high-end performance, but commuting speeds in winter are pretty slow.

Thanks for replying about the fenders! I want to avoid salty slushy snow getting over everything, so I'll need full fenders for sure.