Gravity E-FSX

Show off your E-bike creation here.
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Paladin   100 W

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Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 26 2015 3:48pm

I thought I would add this bike to the mix.
Turned into a real fun bike.
Current right eFSX.JPG
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Current as of 9/21/2015


Started as just a mod to an old mtn. bike...whoops.

Bike number 2 for me...you people and your addictive hobbies...sheesh!
Bike 1, single speed Fito Modena GT cruiser, MagicPie3, 48v/10ah lifepo4. Killed the battery pulling 30a and fixed it...was fun,user error. Good for 20a/20miles in the flats with vigorous pedaling. Fun bike. More a road bike. I ran it off road but I found it wanted to push in the dirt/in the corners, and went down a couple times.(dirt tires)
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After the MP3 I wanted a bike that was more like a pedal/trail bike. Pedaling the MP3 is like a resistance machine, not fun with out the power.
Started with a $200 FSX bike that I wrecked cross threading the bottom bracket, whoops. Replacing a BB that was just fine as-is. Medium Frame was to big anyway(I am 5'7"/155lbs.)...maybe fit batteries better...Bikeisland.com, frames only too.

Actually I was going to put a motor on an old 1988-89 steel Mt. bike...after I put a hole in the bike seat tube/BB with an X-ato knife the plan changed.
Poor old Mantis.JPG
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And it seemed as if I was in some kind of self induced pain mode.
Nearly cut the tip of a finger off in the disc brake...Wow! Look out! Keep all body parts away from that mini guillotine. Still feels funky when I press on the finger nail almost a year later...Roll the bones. Thrashed my knee, thinking I could actually ride a bike under pedal power, guess I am out of shape, getting old and was not in the best shape to begin with...sigh.

Anyhow...
So next ordered the small FSX frame...bikesdirect.com so...
Added some parts.
It is a fine bike as is. I just can not leave things alone.

Started with a Conhismotor 350w.
That motor felt like it never wanted to be an ebike motor. It works ok just has a bad vibration at start, gets warm, and the 6 fet got HOT, in a seat bag. Just a weak motor.
Reminded me of a tandem with the guy on the back...he really dosen't want to be there.
I feel sorry for the people with 250w limit, that is just stupid.

Anyhoo...after I switched to the Mac10t/9fet...now we are having fun.
This bike turned into a fun little machine now.
The Mac 10t really brought this bike to life.
Not even warm...the hub and the controller barely gets warm in the bag.
(had to cut vent holes in bag after it got over 80 degrees f outside)
35-45min mostly flat'ish terrain in the soft dirt.
Wants to pull the front end up at 20a/1000w CA3 settings. This maybe due to the way the motor torque works the rear suspension.
Tuned it to 16a/750w via the CA3 and it is a real nice trail bike.
12s/10ah turnigy in back pack. Close to 10 lbs. batteries and tools, & air pump. For the Back Pack.
Bike weighs in at 43-44lbs.(bathroom floor scale)
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Last edited by Paladin on Sep 21 2015 2:47pm, edited 8 times in total.

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » May 26 2015 5:12pm

The bike turned out, and nice attention to detail!

Your writing style made me laugh. Glad you've come thru mostly unscathed, but yes watch them discs lol OUCH! (I'm new to them too)

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 10:00am

nutspecial wrote:Your writing style made me laugh.
I am trying to find the right place for the CA3 and keep moving it around so the wires are a bit loose.
That is my favorite spot so far, but once in awhile I tap my knee on it.

Have to laugh at myself too was thinking you said wiring...yes I do ramble.
Last edited by Paladin on May 27 2015 10:27pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 12:43pm

When I laced the mac10t on the alex32 rim I ended up with all the spoke heads facing the disc brake side of the hub. Not sure if that was a good idea or what...we will see.
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The torque plate I made from 1/4" aluminum, it is just wedged into the rear swing arm, not bolted to the bike...so will have to see how that works out, hopefully 750w is not too much for it.

The front fork I used is a Rock Shox xc32 and it has a developed a slight oil leak after maybe 500 miles. Odd spot there above the white zip tie.
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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 10:10pm

Not much room for the disc on the rear. Only just over a 1/2"(14mm) EM3EV recommends a 203mm rear disc and it just clears. Good stopping power with the 203mm.
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Mac
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I was looking at the Magic Pie 3 and it is about the same for clearance. I Guess I lucked out and bought a Clarks that was really narrow and fit the pie, maybe an option for the Mac. That is a 160mm disc on the Pie.
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MP3
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Last edited by Paladin on Jun 17 2015 4:41pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 10:23pm

Original bike with 350w.
http://s756.photobucket.com/user/lungco ... t.jpg.html
Some pics of the battery pack too.
Lungcookies bucket...lol...Albums, Gravity, Back-Pack Battery.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 11:14pm

I never thought bulk charging hobby lipo was the best idea. I know lots have had no issues, I just don't feel comfortable with it.
I am using a Turnigy Reaktor x2. With the Hobby King 540w PS.
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Takes about 35-37 minutes per battery, so x3 under 2hours at 5 amp charge LiPo mode. Balanced 12s 10ah
On LiLo mode 4.1v it only takes 25min. So 1 hour 15 minutes.
This is from storage voltage 3.80v-3.83v per cell.

I have been ridding 7-10 miles and the batteries are close to storage voltage 3.80v-3.85v, depending on how much I pedal and the dirt, if its really soft or hard, soft eats amps.
11.6 miles had it right at 3.8v from 4.1v per cell in soft dirt.

Color code the wires so you have no mishaps. I plugged one battery red to black by accident and things got really HOT really fast, big POP! Be Careful with Lipo folks.
Pulled the pack apart and it looks fine, don't think I will mess with it any further.
turnigy 5.0 side.JPG
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Last edited by Paladin on Jun 23 2015 10:16pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 27 2015 11:57pm

I actually liked the low end Shimano brake/shifters. 3/8spd
Solid, work good, light weight, low cost. Way nicer than the ebike levers.
No e-brake cut off...so add one of these http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... uct_id=176 and you can use any levers you want.

I tried to point the led towards the rear, as a brake light but its not a very bright light.(that is not lit) Upper part of picture, wrapped with some spiral plastic wire wrap on the brake cable.

I switched to Teflon coated cables and all I can say is don't waste your money on them. Cant tell any difference from a good ss cable.
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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 12:02am

If you are thinking about building your own wheels check out Spinningmagnets thread...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=64324
Use a spoke wrench...
Last edited by Paladin on Jun 23 2015 10:18pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by gogo » May 28 2015 1:29am

Paladin wrote:I switched to Teflon coated cables and all I can say is don't waste your money on them. Cant tell any difference from a good ss cable.
Back in the 80's I had a motorcycle clutch cable that had a teflon coating. The coating detached and bunched up, but I didn't notice because it was a drag racer with heavy duty clutch springs and I was full of adreneline. My chiropractor, however, was puzzled as to why a right-handed person had higher grip strength in his left hand than the right. That bunched up coating more than doubled the effort required. I don't see teflon coated cables offered for motorcycles anymore.
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking." -Steven Wright

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 10:23am

The only advantage I can see with these coated cables is that you can get colors to match your bike or color style...besides black.
Made my bike a little more blacked out, the cables blend in more.

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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » May 28 2015 12:06pm

Paladin wrote: Have to laugh at myself too was thinking you said wiring...yes I do ramble.
Lol, I wondered why you were mentioning the ca. Yep I meant it as a compliment to the build and your sense of humor!

I second the opinion of mounting the ca being challenging for certain criteria. I wanted it safe from branches, but low enough to turn the bike upside down without hurting it too. Ended up mounting it to the lower portion of an old fork that fits a keyswitch inside, which is mounted to the headtube bolt.

Very nice continuation of the build coverage!

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by kfong » May 28 2015 12:15pm

I would dump that water bottle and put the batteries in that location. Check out my ongoing thread on my pursuit of a dedicated single track setup. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=12654

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 1:03pm

nutspecial wrote:
Paladin wrote: Have to laugh at myself too was thinking you said wiring...yes I do ramble.
Lol, I wondered why you were mentioning the ca. Yep I meant it as a compliment to the build and your sense of humor!

I second the opinion of mounting the ca being challenging for certain criteria. I wanted it safe from branches, but low enough to turn the bike upside down without hurting it too. Ended up mounting it to the lower portion of an old fork that fits a keyswitch inside, which is mounted to the headtube bolt.

Very nice continuation of the build coverage!
:)
I too am trying to find the best place so flipping the bike over wont damage the CA3.
Do you have a pic of that mount you made?
I was checking out your thread but its hard to see how you worked the switch/CA...looks good.
Last edited by Paladin on May 28 2015 2:10pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 1:22pm

kfong wrote:I would dump that water bottle and put the batteries in that location. Check out my ongoing thread on my pursuit of a dedicated single track setup. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=12654
I did that white water bottle as a way to draw ones eye away from any electric parts, same with fenders. Make me look more like a mountain biker, blend in, way to many elitist cyclists around here.

I have been eyeballing those Fantom frames on Bikeisland looks like a nice bike.
Your bike looks like fun.

This bike is definitely affected by the torque of the e-motor on the rear suspension.
At speed over maybe 25mph I can feel a slow surging bounce, I lessened the rebound dampening and that helped some.
The rear geometry may not be the best for e-motors.
That being said I usually only ride about 20mph so this bike is ok so far, any thing more than 1000w might be pushing it.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 1:51pm

I like these Origin8 parts. Made well not over priced.
Trekking cranks square taper/ Slim-line pedals.
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Ritchey headset and ODI Attack grips are a throw back to the days when I could ride a mountain bike without a motor.
Still good quality 20+ years later.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » May 28 2015 2:11pm

It's not as low as I was going for, but it incorporates the keyswitch, so I guess I'm happy with it.
It swivels and the ca tilts, so it doesn't hit when the 'rubber side' is up, so should be ok.
100_1332__1432840164_73_187_98_129.jpg

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 2:36pm

One thing about a backpack battery is if your bike gets ripped off you don't loose the batts.
Seems like if some jerk wants your bike they will jump on and pedal like mad.

My stuff is protected by S&W...by the way...

One time when I was young, some friends and I were riding around late at night, when we stopped at one guys house not 5min and 1 of the 3 bikes GONE!
The one guy at the time that was his only transport, a bike.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » May 28 2015 2:59pm

You could also use the switch to cross two of the phases, so pedaling would be super high resistance. (of course this only works with dd hubs I guess) But maybe an alarm or 'electricchair' scenario.
But yeah, just to keep the honest honest. And little kids from turning on 5kw giving it a handful :shock:.

What is s&w? ohhhhh I get it?
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That's why I like being my own bms for the lipo, it's like antitheft, cuz if any joe takes the bike and tries to ride it, they'll end up in a ball of fire lol.

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » May 28 2015 3:16pm

nutspecial wrote:You could also use the switch to cross two of the phases, so pedaling would be super high resistance. (of course this only works with dd hubs I guess) But maybe an alarm or 'electricchair' scenario.
But yeah, just to keep the honest honest. And little kids from turning on 5kw giving it a handful :shock:.

What is s&w? ohhhhh I get it?
71VL-vJXBpL__SL1200_.jpg
That's why I like being my own bms for the lipo, it's like antitheft, cuz if any joe takes the bike and tries to ride it, they'll end up in a ball of fire lol.
If we could get a bug zapper in the seat! If you don't flip some switch...LOOK OUT! LOL!

I have noticed that there are getting to be GPS trackers for bikes, some even look like a rear tail light, probably not a bad idea.


The back pack battery is not the perfect solution, occasionally unplugs in rough stuff or if I get off on the wrong side, but may open up other frames to eBike'ers.

Keep on keep'n on
Last edited by Paladin on Oct 09 2015 4:22pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » Jun 17 2015 5:25pm

My throttle thumb has been hurting me lately so I decided it was time to try a 5k pot throttle, Magura. $40 over at HolmesHobbies, no grips.

Hooked it all up, Magura into CA3, switched the CA3 to 'current' throttle as I thought that was the setting for 5k pot throttles, gave it a test twist and...what the...
Just twisting the throttle to the point it turns the motor on and stopping, not twisting anymore.
The motor would slowly ramp up to full power, not twisting the throttle any.
Then if you pull the e-brake, when you let off it would surge like a throttle blip.
I sat there fooling around with every CA3 setting I thought was needed, just seemed to make it worse.
Finally turned it back to 'Pass Thru' throttle on the CA3 and FIXED! Works wonderful.
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Cleaned up my wiring...:)
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Picked up a 2x LED light for $20 off eBay.
Very bright, mounted to the bars with a spare CA mount.
Added a visor for some upper light cutoff, directs some light down and to the sides.
Piece of plastic bottle with a bit of metal tape on the bottom and some vinyl wrap on top. 3M double stick tape, servo tape to hold it on.
Running it with a spare turnigy 4cell.
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While I was at it I stuck a 3-snap motorcycle helmet visor on my bike helmet.
Worked pretty good, rattled a little so I stuffed a bit of foam between the helmet and visor and it stopped the button rattle. Black sharpie (ink pen) on the shinny silver buttons.
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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 18 2015 1:57am

Lookin real good, I like that new throttle and light too. How exactly is the relationship between ca, controller and throttle? Could the magura be modded to a half twist? I'm not sure I'd like full twist due to the highly twerky nature of throttle control based on speed for my infineon. But I guess proper integration of the ca3 can solve that?

Ps, I hear ya on the gun thing, makes for civilized people while being a deterrent for wacko murderers. I really like to see everyday folks open carrying. Well gonna go, (emphasis on 'gun' :D )

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » Jun 18 2015 12:17pm

Magura is plugged into CA3 then 1 wire from the CA3 to the controller. Nice and tidy.
The CA3 has all kinds of cool features like throttle ramping that I want to play with.
Just have to spend some time fiddling with it...so many features.
Also it was my understanding that the Magura has a bit of a dead zone at the top and bottom.
I am thinking the CA3 can tune some of that out?...without the use resistors or trim pots.

Trimmed the dead zone out of the bottom just fine.
I only seem to be getting 90% throttle at 4.65v setting, according to the CA3 but I am getting close to the 4.99v top end.
So not sure if there will be any room for the throttle fault protection setting.

If you mean the range of the 'twist' or the actual length of the throttle handle/grip?
The twist action is only about 1/4 of the turn of the grip.
The length of the tube/handle is plastic so you could cut it to any length you wanted.
Magura range.JPG
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The throttle is at full twist.
The bottom yellow mark is where the throttle would sit not twisted, straight up where the upper yellow mark is.
(Picture is at an angle not straight down)
Hope that make sense.

Wrapped some black electrical tape around the seam to help seal it.
Cut a donut out of a milk container to use as a slip washer between the rubber of the grip and the plastic of the handle so there is no resistance, can see that little white line in the pic.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I feel everyone should have to take gun safety training to better understand the danger AND how much fun they are.
If there was a better understanding and respect of firearms maybe there would be less fear.

Same with a drivers licence all should have to under take motorcycle class to understand the auto/bike interaction, however watching some idiot yesterday on a streetbike/motorcycle tailgating, guess some are just asking for it.

End rant.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


/cheers
...and oh yea, Endless-sphere ROCKS!
Thanks all!
Couldn't do it without all the great ideas flowing on this site.

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 18 2015 12:32pm

Oh, so it has about a 35-45 degree twist action range. I think that's fairly normal. The term full and half twist are misleading, but they most commonly refer to the length, like whether the twist is the grip, or if it's 1/2 twist, and 1/2 regular bike grip.

I'm curious how you'll like it, and any details of the setup with ca3 and controller. I'm not really aware of how to properly use a non-hall throttle, as the infineon looks for voltage from the hall. So I guess you must be running it direct into the ca, which gives all kinds of options for power, speed, and temp controls via the throttle signal to the controller.

I agree and highly recommend people taking a free motorcycle safety course. (they have a couple annually around here).

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Paladin   100 W

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Re: Gravity E-FSX

Post by Paladin » Jun 18 2015 5:12pm

I like it, thumb feels better after a ride.
It is harder to reach the shifter but I will adjust.
I have been crashing dirt bikes since the age of 5-6 years old, so the twist grip feels right at home.

It seems as if the Magura would have just plugged right into the CA3 and worked if I had not started messing around with it.
Just have to adjust the upper and lower throttle voltage limits was all.

Just guessing here.
My thinking is the 'thrI->current throttle' is for connecting the throttle to the control.
And the 'thrI->Pass thru' is for throttle to CA3 connection.

It is not crisp/abrupt like the hall, the Magura has a smoother feeling power output with finer low speed control.
So far so good. Just need to play with it more.

I really like this MAC10t, it still pedals like a regular bicycle has good torque and its faster than I thought it was going to be, I am getting 26mph on the road no pedaling. 200lbs bike/rider.
Last edited by Paladin on Jun 23 2015 10:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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