Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

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Cricket_Swe
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 15, 2017 2:01 am

I have another question. How big of a battery would you recommend for Alpha frame using QS205 with max 10kw power? According to Allex who will build my battery when the time comes, a 20s7p battery with 30q cells is about 21 ah. But is 21ah enough for such a beast? Or does it get to heavy with bigger battery? I have no idea how far you can expect to go with this setup if you go gentle on the throttle or max it out. What would you have done?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Oct 15, 2017 8:10 am

Cricket_Swe wrote:I have another question. How big of a battery would you recommend for Alpha frame using QS205 with max 10kw power? According to Allex who will build my battery when the time comes, a 20s7p battery with 30q cells is about 21 ah. But is 21ah enough for such a beast? Or does it get to heavy with bigger battery? I have no idea how far you can expect to go with this setup if you go gentle on the throttle or max it out. What would you have done?
OK battery choice is something personal, I have 20s 9p battery pack and I can do more than 50km at the boost mode 8-9kw peak power.

At these power levels I really stress my 30Q cells and they sag so I really don't know for how long my battery pack will last.

so the conclusion is after 4 months of daily use if you want to have 10KW of peak power 7P battery pack is very weak, if you have for example 140 battery amps this is 20A per cell. Many people think 30Q is a 20A cell but this is wrong because it dies very quickly.

I wish I could fit more than 180 cells into FLUX BETA frame. If you have the ALPHA frame then go for a bigger battery and you won't regret it. the battery will last more, you will have less voltage sag and bigger range.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 15, 2017 11:47 pm

Thanks! That's valuable information

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Oct 16, 2017 2:46 am

Yes, for 140 or more Amps it is recommended to use 14p. But now we are talking about a really heavy battery and a quite expensive one too.
Lilke icherouveim said, it is very personal, and something almost impossible to get it perfect with the first build, because you have no idea on how you will ride, feel and how you want your bike in the end.
For me, it was a downgrading path to get the best power/weight ratio. Like most beginners, I started with a big frame, heavy motor and a big battery, but I realised very soon that the riding I am doing, I am much better of with a lighter motor/frame and battery.
So having 20s14p, mxus 3000 and max-e I went to 18s6p midi-e and leaf 1500W motor, lightweight rims, lightweight tyres, double crown fork to single crown and so on. For me, this new bike is much more fun, again, with my kind of riding style.

Cricket, if you are in Sthlm, you should try it out.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cowardlyduck » Oct 16, 2017 6:04 am

Yeah, what Allex said, but the opposite is also true. :mrgreen:

I started with my Fighter, which I still love, but I'm now also building an Alpha. The Fighter is the lightweight with a Leaf motor/Mini-E, but will have a large 14S14P 18650 battery for super long range, but not too much weight to handle.
My Alpha will have 18S 30AH (or 40AH if I can fit it) of LiPo, a Midi-E and will probably have a QS205 or MXUS 5K I will pump 10KW through. For the Alpha I don't care as much about weight, just insane acceleration and a good top end. :mrgreen:

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 16, 2017 10:38 am

Allex wrote:Yes, for 140 or more Amps it is recommended to use 14p. But now we are talking about a really heavy battery and a quite expensive one too.
Lilke icherouveim said, it is very personal, and something almost impossible to get it perfect with the first build, because you have no idea on how you will ride, feel and how you want your bike in the end.
For me, it was a downgrading path to get the best power/weight ratio. Like most beginners, I started with a big frame, heavy motor and a big battery, but I realised very soon that the riding I am doing, I am much better of with a lighter motor/frame and battery.
So having 20s14p, mxus 3000 and max-e I went to 18s6p midi-e and leaf 1500W motor, lightweight rims, lightweight tyres, double crown fork to single crown and so on. For me, this new bike is much more fun, again, with my kind of riding style.

Cricket, if you are in Sthlm, you should try it out.
This is so true. I have came to the same conclusions. What I have also found is about 7kw is the sweet spot for most ebikes that weighs less than 100 pounds with good suspension and can be pedaled. This is the direction my future builds will be going. We are still talking about electric bicycles and not electric motorcycles.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 16, 2017 10:51 am

Cricket_Swe wrote:I have another question. How big of a battery would you recommend for Alpha frame using QS205 with max 10kw power? According to Allex who will build my battery when the time comes, a 20s7p battery with 30q cells is about 21 ah. But is 21ah enough for such a beast? Or does it get to heavy with bigger battery? I have no idea how far you can expect to go with this setup if you go gentle on the throttle or max it out. What would you have done?
Another option could be to use 25R cells. Yah they are only 2.5ah per cell, but they are rated for 10C. A guy could build a 20S 10P pack and have a battery potential discharge rate of 250amps. The pack would come out to a total of 200 cells, and give you 83-84 volts (Hot off the charger) 25Ah battery that wouldn't be very heavy at all.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 16, 2017 11:38 pm

So what is the difference again between 25r cells and 30q except the 2.5ah Vs 3ah? 25r has 10c duscharge rate and 30q has what?
Rix wrote: Another option could be to use 25R cells. Yah they are only 2.5ah per cell, but they are rated for 10C. A guy could build a 20S 10P pack and have a battery potential discharge rate of 250amps. The pack would come out to a total of 200 cells, and give you 83-84 volts (Hot off the charger) 25Ah battery that wouldn't be very heavy at all.
What would be the difference between that pack and an identical with 30q cells?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Oct 17, 2017 12:00 am

Cricket_Swe wrote:So what is the difference again between 25r cells and 30q except the 2.5ah Vs 3ah? 25r has 10c duscharge rate and 30q has what?
Rix wrote: Another option could be to use 25R cells. Yah they are only 2.5ah per cell, but they are rated for 10C. A guy could build a 20S 10P pack and have a battery potential discharge rate of 250amps. The pack would come out to a total of 200 cells, and give you 83-84 volts (Hot off the charger) 25Ah battery that wouldn't be very heavy at all.
What would be the difference between that pack and an identical with 30q cells?
Good morning,

When you don't stress the cells you have less voltage sag that means better-brutal acceleration and also they live longer.

Also if the budget is not a problem you can go for Sony Konie US18650VTC5A 2600mAh - 35A cells their Cycle life is much better
from what I've read.

Ioannis
Last edited by icherouveim on Oct 17, 2017 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Oct 17, 2017 12:13 am

Speaking about lightweight parts I want to introduce you my new Titanium nuts.
I was searching online about good nut alternatives and I've found this solution.

The original MXUS nuts threats don't look good if you have to remove and re install them 3-4 times.

These are much lighter, I've tested them for the last four months without any problems and after some flats I had to remove them and
the threats are like new!

At the beginning I thought that I am going to kill myself because they are much lighter compare to the steel nuts
but finally it seems they are much stronger!

So for riders that want something stronger and also to save some grams go ahead!
They are compatible with stealth frames no problem.

I attach a photo and the link to take a look.
Titanium_Nuts.jpg
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-T ... 0.0.Ncvb55
Last edited by icherouveim on Oct 17, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 17, 2017 3:06 am

Cool, thanks. I'm thinking of going with a 20s10p now. Allex says that should give me about 30Ah and 200A max 150A recommended. That sounds good to me for 10kw

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by icherouveim » Oct 17, 2017 5:03 am

Cricket_Swe wrote:Cool, thanks. I'm thinking of going with a 20s10p now. Allex says that should give me about 30Ah and 200A max 150A recommended. That sounds good to me for 10kw
Yes 20s10p with 30q cells is a great battery and the range is enough to make you happy!

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 17, 2017 5:09 am

Awesome! Thanks everyone! Now I know what to get, and I'll be getting my Max-E soon too. So this will be fun!

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 17, 2017 9:42 am

Cricket_Swe wrote:So what is the difference again between 25r cells and 30q except the 2.5ah Vs 3ah? 25r has 10c duscharge rate and 30q has what?
Rix wrote: Another option could be to use 25R cells. Yah they are only 2.5ah per cell, but they are rated for 10C. A guy could build a 20S 10P pack and have a battery potential discharge rate of 250amps. The pack would come out to a total of 200 cells, and give you 83-84 volts (Hot off the charger) 25Ah battery that wouldn't be very heavy at all.
What would be the difference between that pack and an identical with 30q cells?
30Q cells are 5C rated.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 17, 2017 9:43 am

icherouveim wrote:Speaking about lightweight parts I want to introduce you my new Titanium nuts.
I was searching online about good nut alternatives and I've found this solution.

The original MXUS nuts threats don't look good if you to remove and re install them 3-4 times.

These are much lighter, I've tested them for the last four months without any problems and after some flats I had to remove them and
the threats are like new!

At the beginning I thought that I am going to kill myself because they are much lighter compare to the steel nuts
but finally it seems they are much stronger!

So for riders that want something stronger and also to save some grams go ahead!
They are compatible with stealth frames no problem.

I attach a photo and the link to take a look.
Titanium_Nuts.jpg
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-T ... 0.0.Ncvb55
Nice, I bet those nuts set you back some coin. Worth it though.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Lash » Oct 19, 2017 2:15 am

Rix wrote: Looking good. Yah, your rear rotor is on backwards. I see you are using a geared hub. What kind of power are you looking at running? I was thinking of trying a Mac 10 on 16s with a 40amp controller, oil cooling, and using a steel gears. 2600w in a lightweight reliable package should make for a good handling machine.
That would be a nice choice for sure. I was thinking about a MAC, but it was just easier for me to get a mxus 500w one. This one will be running 14s6p on Sanyo "GA" 3500mah cells all being well. (Putting my order in shortly)... It doesnt take much to deliver 500w (or a tad more) so will keep an eye on it with the basic mxus controller. They only pull low amps - says max 22 on the cover, so it wont be breaking any speed records. But this bike is for local customers, (who remain a mystery right now - lol). But my partner Jacqui wants it anyway. Should make for a sweet very light weight commuter / touring / fun bike. great for your 35-45k? round trip. Yet to do the maths on it. I have been under the pump. Being low it actually feels pretty cool to swing a leg over. Cant wait to test it, Im almost ready too, i cut the steerer tube and got that all sorted the other day, and a bunch of parts turned up so hope to fit some more this weekend.

The other beta I have in the works has a MXUS 1000w hub, its also not too heavy and will be getting the same battery I'd say. So should also be a sweet whip. With unobtrusive installs punters can buy-em ride-em and upgrade-em when they are ready and even pop this gear onto a MTB or even just get another beta frame and be done with it! Though someone was saying the 1000w can take a bit of abuse if you treat it hard then kind ;-) to keep temps low.

Re - Hyena - Rear v-brake rim, yeah I didn't think to get a non v-brake one when i ordered, oh well, I hardly notice, however perhaps I could carefully use a matt black paint pen so it doesn't stand out?
Your bikes are looking well polished and well equipped! My 3rd Beta is still in a box - I have dreams of stepping up the game for that one, and turning it into a rocket. Just a bit cash poor right now dang it. (cmon cryptos!)

FWIW - My Alpha has 18s10p of samsung 30qs. Which I think is a good choice. Clearly you can do more with the staggered cell layout. Construction and fiting will be more difficult though, But remember its all at the cost of weight!

I've been getting a few rides in lately, and while I love the power to lighten the front end everywhere, I'm only dialled in to around 6 or 7 kw, and am actually just enjoying the riding and linking all the turns together for fast flowing fun riding on the "edge" in the corners if you know what I mean?.

One of my next alphas will have to get the MAX POWER Treatment though, and hit this 10kw mark for sure.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 23, 2017 10:16 am

A little something came in the mailbox today, very excited! :D

Image

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Rix
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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 23, 2017 3:13 pm

Oh yah! MAX E. Did you get that new in box or is it used?

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Cricket_Swe » Oct 23, 2017 11:16 pm

New in box. Got it from a member here but he never used it. All the connections that came loose are still in sealed plastic bag. Must say, it was actually smaller than I thought it would be, which is awesome

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Oct 24, 2017 2:07 am

Nice, I remember this batch, They made them for me with slightly longer cables.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Oct 24, 2017 8:12 pm

Allex wrote:Nice, I remember this batch, They made them for me with slightly longer cables.

That was so you could hide the wiring inside of the Beta frame, it was clean looking.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Allex » Oct 25, 2017 2:39 pm

Those came loong time ago before Futr, I think 2 years or so ago.
But yeah longer cable helps a lot when wiring it up!

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by JtHaas » Nov 06, 2017 9:00 pm

I posted an ad in the items wanted section so i hope I'm not kicking up too much dust here. I'm looking to trade my Phasor frame for a Futr Beta frame.

With that said the bottom bracket is a 68mm. Is it threaded and has anyone had any issue with crank clearance or bumping with standard cranksets? :) Also are there specs on the geometry if the Beta frame anywhere. I'm looking to see the wheelbase length for an averge setup.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by Rix » Nov 06, 2017 9:21 pm

JtHaas wrote:I posted an ad in the items wanted section so i hope I'm not kicking up too much dust here. I'm looking to trade my Phasor frame for a Futr Beta frame.

With that said the bottom bracket is a 68mm. Is it threaded and has anyone had any issue with crank clearance or bumping with standard cranksets? :) Also are there specs on the geometry if the Beta frame anywhere. I'm looking to see the wheelbase length for an averge setup.
I can get you a wheel base measurement for the Beta, keep in mind that fork length and rear shock length can alter the wheel base by a little so the when I measure mine, its only going to be approximate. Also, the head tube and seat tube angle can fluctuate a little based on shock length and fork length. Don't ask me for the numbers on angles.

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Re: Stealth FUTR owners builds and pics

Post by JtHaas » Nov 06, 2017 10:29 pm

Rix wrote:
JtHaas wrote:I posted an ad in the items wanted section so i hope I'm not kicking up too much dust here. I'm looking to trade my Phasor frame for a Futr Beta frame.

With that said the bottom bracket is a 68mm. Is it threaded and has anyone had any issue with crank clearance or bumping with standard cranksets? :) Also are there specs on the geometry if the Beta frame anywhere. I'm looking to see the wheelbase length for an averge setup.
I can get you a wheel base measurement for the Beta, keep in mind that fork length and rear shock length can alter the wheel base by a little so the when I measure mine, its only going to be approximate. Also, the head tube and seat tube angle can fluctuate a little based on shock length and fork length. Don't ask me for the numbers on angles.
Your build is shockingly close to what I would be doing with mine so it wouldn't be too far off. Thanks Rix there's no rush for it.

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