Reid's Stealth Cruiser: Float your eBOAT? Ideas, anyone? p22

[Stevil_Knevil]

NICE work, Reid. Looking forward to seeing you and your machine drop into the deep end of the previously mentioned pool for an underwater, board-track style victory lap!

[Stevil_Knevil]

Of coarse, if you had access to a SCUBA.. you might stay under water for ~18 miles (?)

Just a guess.

[Reid Welch]

Of coarse, if you had access to a SCUBA.. you might stay under water for ~18 miles (?)

Just a guess.

God dam, it's great to hear from you again after all this time.
I can hold my breath for a very long time, but two years without hearing your voice: I turned blue.

Today: off my ass (have been slack lately due to other projects) to fine-fit the kickstand, and then pull
the wires and....wholly finish the basic installation of this easy project. Any of you would have done it in two days at most.
Myself? I'm slower than an inverted turtle. So will be the bike.

Thanks for checking in, Steve. Much brother love for you, always,

r.

[Reid Welch]

I finally figured out that the kickstand should not / must not raise either the front or rear wheel from the ground.
So I just cut the two feet off, just a bit and applied new rubber tips, which will be glued on against loss.

The top plate has yet to be cut to the correct width: just wide enough to span the two chainstay tubes.
More later. The bike stands very stable now. At the moment, if you look look closely, you'll see that the clamping plate
fouls the chainwheel: the bike cannot be ridden until I cut off this excess.
I will bevel the ends of the plate and visually meld them into the look of the bike.

Here is the bike five minutes ago:

[Reid Welch]

Controller number two replacing the first one that i ruined.
=pulling the hall and phase wires, fishing, from the bottom hole to the top, oval hole, was the hard part.
____
just completed wire connections of the hard wired *cut off the quick connectors at the controller end: three throttle wires and six cycle analyst wires needed to be soldered and sealed: reason: totally waterproof, and non-fugly,
just a pain to change.

shrink tubing with undercoat of silicone rubber = more water seal against the remote possibility of stray, tiny currents; plenty of slack wire: all this will tuck into the lower tube of the frame,
and a piece of corrugated, black wire loom of split-sleeve plastic will make it look just neat.

Just got this picture, blurry, just as the last connection of lower end, controller end was made.
it looks a mess. the rain suddenly started. i wanted to begin to show the final wiring anyway.

More pictures will follow in this posting form later, very soon. the bike should run tomorrow,
and then refinements of odds and ends will be taken care of. Check in later if you like; I'll alter the page 1 title when things happen.

temporary picture of a rat's nest...to be replaced with a sharper picture soon

The controller is loosely duct taped out of the way, taped to the semi-permanently-mounted backplate of the little controller.
When the wires are all stuffed into the tube and the controller case fitted, there will be an air gap around its perimeter;
will let water in, warm air out, etc.


It's pouring rain outside. i cannot see to solder properly indoors. More later; off to drown kittens at the animal shelter (kidding!)

[AussieJester]

:: Bump ::

Need Reid fix ASAP... Where is you Mr Welch ...?

Kim

Apprentice Gangsta

[recumbent]

Nice bike Reid, and huge bonus for hiding the wires through the tubing like you did, I hid most my wires also.

You can adjust your seat more forward if you loosen the clamp underneith. Might have to get different design but can be done, just so you know.

[AussieJester]

Nice bike Reid, and huge bonus for hiding the wires through the tubing like you did, I hid most my wires also.

You can adjust your seat more forward if you loosen the clamp underneith. Might have to get different design but can be done, just so you know.

Reid has purposely set the seat back like it is, this combined with the reverse stem position will
allow him to get good leverage on the bars whilst pushing on the pedals

Reid Reid Reid where out thou Reid....give us a sign your still here...

off to drown kittens at the animal shelter (kidding!)

I got all excited till i read the "kidding" i thought we had something else in common for a second "not kidding" I hate catz

Kim

Apprentice Gangsta

[Reid Welch]

pictures only for now, this new keyboard has compact keys and i cannot even hunt and peck successfully.

new text soon.....

[Rassy]

Reid wrote:

i cannot even hunt and peck successfully

Your partner may not appreciate that you're still a "hunt'n pecker". Sorry, just couldn't pass up your straight line.

[TPA]

Reid wrote:

i cannot even hunt and peck successfully

Your partner may not appreciate that you're still a "hunt'n pecker". Sorry, just couldn't pass up your straight line.

What kind of twisted mind does it take to come up with that!

someone will put that in the humor section for sure!

[AussieJester]

lookin good Reid the shot with the conduct over the wires looks slick very professional and makes
all the cursing while fishing the wires through worth it

Good to hear from you too...


Kim

Happy now has Reid Fix

[The Stig]

It's been a while since the last update. 15 days... Still haven't found a good keyboard Reid?

[Reid Welch]

It's been a while since the last update. 15 days... Still haven't found a good keyboard Reid?

Have been AWOL due to illness. Now back on track.

TODAY: waterproofing the PING battery, the lead-outs in particular. Perfect Glue #1 (a special sort of RTV sealant), plus "Gorilla" brand duct tape overall....to ensure against any possibility of water ingress, even submerged.
Will test the battery in a pail of water to be sure, before mounting it with GLUE into the basket (anti-theft feature).

Will glue the PING into the basket soon, then, and then complete the wiring tomorrow (I hope),
and then have a working ebike.

Thanks for your patience, all.

Pictures to come soon.

r.

[Reid Welch]

Double-sealing the Ping battery, paying special attention to the lead-out points and to the kill switch.
The tape used is "Gorilla" brand duct tape: it is thick and carries a incredibly strong adhesive.

Then water ingress points, the wire-outlet points, were injected with "Perfect Glue #1", which is a sort of silicone rubber,
but superior in workability and chemical resistance to that of the conventional acetic acid-cure silicone adhesives.

Special attention was given. The glue was put INTO the wire exit points, then taped over with Gorilla duct tape, and that seam glued over again.

The finished battery will be load tested whilst sitting in the bottom of a five gallon pail of water. No bubbles (air ingress) should be seen.

-----
The kill switch will be remotely located under the seat tube, tucked into a nearly invisible place: PULL for OFF and PUSH for ON. The main fuse is in the red lead of the battery itself.

Special steps taken to make the kill switch everlasting: it is packed, as the pictures show, with a heavy duty mil-spec silicone grease. This wipe action 30 thirty amp switch is from the auto parts store. It has compression screws to clamp onto the red wire, which it intercepts.

The silicone grease you see is a jar I saved from my Navy days, 1974: it was being thrown out then as "out of date", for it is of Korean War vintage. It is about sixty years old...surely more than fifty years old and still like new.
Note that silicone greases are absolutely inert and never age, gum, or go sour in any way.
This is super high temperature plug valve grease as was used on Navy submarines.
Here, it will prevent water ingress into the switch and also prevent tarnish or corrosion of the spring brass switch contacts.

--Images....the BMS connector is heavily buttered with silicone grease to make it proof even against salt water
(I don't plan to run the bike in salt water).

Hope you enjoy. Diddling slowly but surely. Results will come soon.

Note how nicely Perfect Glue lays out. It is a unique form of silicone rubber glue, much better working than regular silicone glue.


Wraps and wraps of super-tough Gorilla duct tape, to be burnished hard against the factory tape job


The kill switch


Opened up for cleaning the contacts, and then to be stuffed with Dow Corning silicone compound




It is older than me...and is still just like new. I've dabbed into that jar countless times over the past 35 years.


Now we stuff the switch. "Dielectric"...ALL oils/greases are dielectric, however...


...This "dielectric" property does not prevent perfect METAL TO METAL contact of the wiping contacts.
Back together, very simple; just wipe the exterior clean with solvents, finishing with acetone so that the switch
will be epoxy-puttied to a hiding place on the frame, in easy reach of my hand even while riding.






The BMS connector is stuffed with the same anti-corrosion lube. Next I will apply the goop to the crimped terminals as well:
IDEA being, to prevent water and or salt from ever reaching the crimped copper to copper junctions of the connector.


Now the BMS is heavily glued to the battery proper. This BMS is epoxy encapsulated, totally waterproof.
IF I ever have to change it: unplug the connector and pry off the BMS by pulling a cord or fine steel wire behind it;
it will come off easily, as no great bond to the plastic tape is possible with silicone adhesives (Perfect Glue #1 here).


After the glue is cured and a bit more taping is done, and thorough rubbing-down of the tape is done,
the battery will be ready for underwater testing.

[The Stig]

Wow that was a long absence. Must have been an unpleasant illness.

Reid you seem to know your epoxies and glues really well. I'm gonna have to ask you for some advice, What sort of epoxy should I use to stick the new hall sensors in to my BMC 500W(puma) hub? The old epoxy that was in there was brittle and never softened from heat. I had to scrape it away with a hot soldering iron. Might be good to use the same stuff or similar.



That seems like pretty thorough waterproofing. Should be pretty theif proof to as long as the basket is very well secured to the frame...
I went with a hard plastic case
http://www.fuertecases.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=T5500&Category_Code=S3
http://www.fuertecases.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=T5500&Category_Code=S3
Then I'm going to lock a chain around it and the ends to two more locks through the lock holes.

[Reid Welch]

Hi Stig, great photo! I am no expert. Heat softens pure epoxies of any sort.
IF, however, the epoxy is a "filled epoxy" such as regular, slow-set JB Weld, it will hold wires in place better,

yet I HAVE NEVER SEEN AN EPOXY that does not soften before 200 degrees F.
The filled epoxies all yield to a hot air gun and a dental pick....though the "steel filled" epoxies are still a bear to fully remove.

ALL of them yield, too, to methylene chloride-bearing paint strippers, albeit slowly.
Silicone rubbers: there are so many of them: they all, however, resist heat up to about 400F,
but their weakness is solvent resistance: oils, and especially petroleum solvents, will weaken them in time.

That's my experience.

For every glue, save one, there is a solvent. That "glue" is litharge: white lead and linseed oil, as was used for
plumbing connections and pipe fittings a century ago. Once the lead carbonate has set in its mix of linseed oil,
nothing at all will ever dissolve it, short of nitric acid. But we don't keep white lead in stock any more.
It had to be mixed on the spot, applied, and weeks allowed for it to fully cure.

I'd use a filled epoxy like JB Weld, for even though it will soften in heat, if there's no tug on the wires, they should stay put.

Do the makers today really have super-permanent, truly heat proof cold adhesives?
I don't know. I only know that JB Weld, good as it is, lies about its "great heat resistance".
Try the hot air gun test on JB Weld and see for yourself, folks: it turns to cheese when heated.

Folks, never ever use "five minute epoxy" of any brand for things that will get hot or heavily stressed;
five minute epoxy is for light duty only, and only at LOW temperatures: 150F will turn it soft as Velveeta gets at room temperature.
__________________
____________________________
Waiting for Perfect Glue #1 to cure...
...I think I'll mount the kill switch while the BMS-glued-to-the battery sets up.

[Reid Welch]

Have a piece of heavy, wool billiard cloth. Cut a rectangle of that and silicone-glued it to the bottom of the pack.
Then heavily buttered the bottom of the cloth and set the 36V/20Ah PING into the basket one hour ago.
The ooze of the thick silicone adhesive pressed through the diamond mesh of the basket bottom nicely.
It is now curing. Time will tell if this cementing procedure is sufficient to really hold the battery in place;
otherwise, I'll strap across the top. Nothing much sticks well to the plastic coating of duct tape, so far as I know,
so strapping is probably going to be necessary eventually.

More pictures to come tomorrow afternoon...or whenever I finish the wiring and the bike runs.

The kill switch is in place. Some final hard wiring of the main cable to the e-Zee motor is all that remains to be done.

Should be able to ride in a couple of days. Cheers....now reading up on threads I've missed in the meantime,

best regards to all,

r.

kill switch tacked in place with epoxy putty


it will be finished off (disguised) with more putty later...to integrate it with the bike


the basket: wired to the rack, ready for gluing in the PING battery


the battery is now silicone-glued to the basket--with an interposed piece of black woolen billiard cloth to ease future removal




the BMS will disappear when I tuck black billiard cloth over, around, and down the four sides of the PING


owing to the fixed position of the BMS, the battery is offset to the right to allow plenty of clearance for the BMS,
necessary so that I can remove and replace the BMS without disturbing the battery mounting itself.


the surplus space at the rear of the basket is just the right size for the chain lock to stow



silicone glue squeeze-through, keying the billiard cloth bottom of the battery to the rack:
keyed, it can't break loose at this juncture, at least.



_____________________

Sufficient space all round the battery to tuck in a "stealth" cover of that black billiard cloth.
The wires remain to be routed and hidden as best as possible. For now, I'll probably just lash them up to the controller
and think later how best to hide the wires. Ping's wire exit points are a little bit awkward for my needs,
but nothing can be done about that; it's not a design defect...just a minor challenge to work around.

[Kurt]

I am not sure if you have it covered but dose the ping BMS get hot when charging/balancing or when discharging?
How will it go now that its covered in epoxy?

The little BMS on my two small headway packs gets quite hot around the balancing resisters when charging. I guess the epoxy would transfer the heat to the surface.

Overall The bike is looking good, very stealth.

Kurt.

[Reid Welch]

I am not sure if you have it covered but does the ping BMS get hot when charging/balancing or when discharging?
How will it go now that its covered in epoxy?
Kurt.

Hi Kurt!. The Ping BMS only heats when it is in balancing mode of the charge cycle, and it only heats the resistors,
and the resistors get no more than just warm to the touch.
As supplied, the entire BMS was sleeved in yellow heat shrink: a thermal insulator in itself.
The epoxy pour coats (two pours in all, top and bottom, hardly insulate the resistors: the heat passes right through the epoxy.
Those two watt metal film resistors just don't get hot...only warm. I foresee no problem. The BMS will run cooler (it only heats while balancing) than stock. It's a very low thermal strain that it sees, no matter the case. I'll uncover the BMS of its billiard cloth, anyway, when charging. The cloth will normally hide the charging plug wire, too. So: yank up the side flap, charge,
and that's that. No worries.

Now to finish soldering the hub motor lead outs to the main cable, wrap the wires there and tuck the excess *about a foot or so*, into the main tube and "grommet" the oval hole in the tube with some black billiard cloth and seal that with PVC fabric glue as a water-ingress shield.

Tomorrow... maybe... I take the road and cruise singlespeed with that 52T chainwheel. 23mph unassisted or bust.
And what will be the unassisted range on our level terrain? Will find out soon.

Coaster brake, ding ding bell, no gear shifting...ideal for flat terrain, this bike, I betcha.

Cheers,

Slo Poke and Oiled eZee, no front brake, Reid

[E-Ticket]

Reid,
I've very much enjoyed following your innovative, meticulous and entertaining build thread. Due to your sudden absence, I was a bit concerned about your health. I'm relieved and pleased that you're back - and looking forward to your regular and witty updates!

[Reid Welch]

Hi E-Ticket! Thanks for the encouragement.
Such a simple project...made complicated by my inexperience.

If I ever do this sort of project again it will be a breeze, having learned by trial and a lot of errors
what works...and what fails. Noobs: gotta put up with them. They blow like the wind.

Did no work today. Will finish wiring tonight. Ride tomorrow or Sunday, I promise!

Kudos now to the men here who really build from scratch. All I do is burn my fingers,
but....the dunking to come should ease that pain.

Laters,
r.

[Zoot Katz]

. . .
If I ever do this sort of project again it will be a breeze, having learned by trial and a lot of errors
what works...and what fails. Noobs: gotta put up with them. They blow like the wind.
. . .

I was just thinking of starting an abortion thread instead of a build thread but I'd not want it to end up in the cesspool.
It would be about how to not house batteries.

[Reid Welch]

I was just thinking of starting an abortion thread instead of a build thread but I'd not want it to end up in the cesspool.
It would be about how to not house batteries.

I want to know.
Put your thoughts here if you like. I'm all ears and thumbs, eager to learn.

How not to house batteries
(elucidate here, or a new thread, your call, thanks!).

Do you foresee trouble brewing here? What would Bugs Bunny say?






Bugs on Reid: What a maroon!

[Zoot Katz]

It would be about how to not house batteries.

I want to know.
Put your thoughts here if you like. I'm all ears and thumbs, eager to learn.

How not to house batteries
(elucidate here, or a new thread, your call, thanks!).

Do you foresee trouble brewing here? What would Bugs Bunny say?

Bugs on Reid: What a maroon!

I was thinking more about my own failure to accommodate my batteries in a balanced secure location.
With an Xtracycle one can be something of a slob mounting the batteries while remaining discrete. They've got plenty of room down low to carry all the volts I'd dare.
My setups and attempts at refinement thusfar have been considered temporary. A more permanent solution will require reconfiguring the battery packs to fit some home built, almost trapezoidal, rigid boxes that conform to the available spaces of a mixte frame.
I even built mock ups of those boxes before I decided to get bigger batteries. The bigger batteries don't fit where I want them to counter balance the weight of a X5304 rear hub motor.
Potting a battery in epoxy scares me. I mean, what if it needs to be serviced or tested at the single cell level?
There's too much hassle getting it "un potted". With some chemistries and construction, there's also the issues of venting and/or expansion.