Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by ridethelightning » Dec 26, 2015 12:40 am

how are dealing with airflow inside the frame?

i have a nyx with internal max-e controller, im now trying to sort out some fans to blow the hot air out under the seat post mount area...

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Dec 26, 2015 4:26 am

ridethelightning wrote:how are dealing with airflow inside the frame?

i have a nyx with internal max-e controller, im now trying to sort out some fans to blow the hot air out under the seat post mount area...
Yeah, i do foresee heat build up being a problem. It was hot inside the frame box after doing a twenty minute run yesterday peaking at 78amp 80v. The 18fet lyen controller was very very warm. I have a problem with my cycle analyst at present. It is not limiting the amps. I had to disconnect the green throttle overide wire on the CA to get the bike throttle to work, but this seems to have left me me no limiting features?.

Seeing that 65a is the continuous rating for lyens 18fet i am worried about it getting too hot for sure. i will be investing in an adappto max-e in the near future. Doctorbass has mounted his under the frame with a plastic mudguard covering it but the adappto waterproofing level is a bit iffy. I am just happy to get the bike working at present... That and not breaking any limbs when pulling the throttle.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by ridethelightning » Dec 26, 2015 6:04 am

brumbrum wrote:
ridethelightning wrote:how are dealing with airflow inside the frame?

i have a nyx with internal max-e controller, im now trying to sort out some fans to blow the hot air out under the seat post mount area...
Yeah, i do foresee heat build up being a problem. It was hot inside the frame box after doing a twenty minute run yesterday peaking at 78amp 80v. The 18fet lyen controller was very very warm. I have a problem with my cycle analyst at present. It is not limiting the amps. I had to disconnect the green throttle overide wire on the CA to get the bike throttle to work, but this seems to have left me me no limiting features?.

Seeing that 65a is the continuous rating for lyens 18fet i am worried about it getting too hot for sure. i will be investing in an adappto max-e in the near future. Doctorbass has mounted his under the frame with a plastic mudguard covering it but the adappto waterproofing level is a bit iffy. I am just happy to get the bike working at present... That and not breaking any limbs when pulling the throttle.
the green wire on the cav3, and not being able to limit amps rings old bells i really want to forget :lol:
that was one of the main reasons i was so quick to get a max-e when they first came on the scene even if it was a bit pricey. never looked back.

Doc's bike is awesome but i like the clean look with the controller inside the frame and not having to worry about mud and crap getting all over the plugs and into the controller.

i took my nyx for a test ride last night, the max-e got real warm in there, ~60C and i diddnt like that.
iv made vents under the front, just behind the steerer tube, but im still to make the vents at the rear under the seat bracket.

i thought about it all day today and came up with using an 80mm fan mounted on a plate that fixes to the alu cross brace in the seat bracket area. ill have to cut the cross peice out first of course, so the fan will sit inside the cavity where the seatpost is mounted,with the alu plate it is mounted to screwed to the alu strengthening peice there.

then ill drill some number of ~8mm holes to make vents under the seatpost, so that the fan sucks air from the batt compartment into the seatpost cavity and then blows it out the holes.

at first i was going to use 40x40mm fans mounted under the seatpost but id have to cut large holes in the frame for that, and those fans will have to be noisy to pull the amount of air required.
the 80mm fan can pull much more air for the same noise and will be muffled slightly as its mounted more internally.
i might try to get some pics up soon.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Dec 26, 2015 9:06 am

That sounds like a plan indeed. It made my backside clench just drilling a hole for the motor wires to enter the frame :lol: , i would rather avoid drilling air vents if i can, but as you too have noticed it gets very warm in the box and something will have to change for sure. If you can find the time to post some pictures i would really appreciate it.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by ridethelightning » Dec 28, 2015 5:36 am

well after half a day with the dremel and other assorted tools, my asthma is cranking nicely :P and the the fan mount plate is made, the cross piece is removed.

i now only have to drill some holes in the alu in the frame to screw the fan mount plate to, and drill the external vent holes( :| )

its really pokey in there, i really dont know how would have done it without the dremel flexi drive. i used a small morror and torch to see what the hell i was doing some times.

it took me a long time to get the nerve up to start dilling holes in my nyx too.
the calming realisation came that if i did make a mistake, as long as it was in an area that wasnt too visible, i could always patch it with carbon and epoxy and polish it up, or even glue on a plate of black aluminium with strong epoxy glue...

this would not be the case if it was an aluminium frame.

I really like the handling of the nyx, it has a nice long wheel base, so doesnt wheelie so easilly, and feels solid as a rock.
iv got little low profile slick maxis diamond 17" wheels front and back, the low centre of gravity also inspires confidence to really open it up on the highway late at night :mrgreen:

btw pics comn' soon when the mod is complete...

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Dec 28, 2015 3:01 pm

Well done mate! It sounds like you've got it all under control. All i need now is a new rear shock to complete the setup as i want it. I have a 200mm fox air shock that just aint holding its own with all the extra battery weight i am now deploying, its sagging more than a witches tit even when pumped to its limit of 300psi and put on the locked pro pedal setting. Ordered a new shock today and then will be visiting the UK's only authorised Fox distributor which happens to be 15mins from where i live to get the correct rated spring. As you can see from my avatar it will have to pretty heavy duty :wink:

Hats off to you for cutting out the inner frame, you're a brave man and its nice for me to know there is a test pilot willing to try these things out, before i dare attempt them :lol: Try and get some piccys up when you get the fan in and have drilled the air holes.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Jonboy » Dec 29, 2015 10:35 am

Not a bad hour on the hill today.. couldn't wait to get Andys gorgeous nyx stinking :twisted: shame the fun ended cos my Rappy got a flat...! Hope you enjoyed & Cheers! ;-)
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Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by drew12345 » Dec 29, 2015 11:08 am

Did u get flat with moped rim? What made it flat?

Sweet pic! Very nice bikes.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Jonboy » Dec 29, 2015 11:37 am

Yeh moto rim.. a big thorn I think :-(

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Dec 29, 2015 5:39 pm

drew12345 wrote:Did u get flat with moped rim? What made it flat?

Sweet pic! Very nice bikes.

Yep, them Welsh hills take no prisoners this time of year. Jonboy managed to eat through two throttles and a tyre today...... He's pretty 'ardcore, half man half mountain goat 8)

Cheers for posting a photo Jon, maybe next time we can get some of the terrain too.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Jonboy » Dec 29, 2015 7:05 pm

yes for sure ! once some the hill dries itll be easy to go quick through the trees n jump. Loads of pic opportunities at the jumps etc...my neibour has taken a shine to your ride btw!!

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by ridethelightning » Jan 28, 2016 5:15 pm

some less then perfect shots of the vent holes.

with the vents at the front under the steerer i glued some black stainless mesh over the inside to stop crap getting in.

thecontroller sits above the battery, parallele to the shock, inside the frame there.

with the fan running, (i can hardly hear it) the controller stay within much more acceptable temps now - ~45C max. while charging, you can feel the warm air coming out the holes.
before it was getting to 60C.
there is good insulation between controlller and 18650 pack, but i still dont like heat in there...
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fan is actually mounted in the seat post cavity area, with the plate bolted to the gusset there( minus the cross)fan sits on the seatpost side, and blows air out through the holes
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you can just see the vents under the steerer where the fan draws from here. sorry i havnt got a good shot of them yet..
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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Jan 30, 2016 3:05 am

Thanks for making the time to post those pictures. Food for thought for future development. I am going to try liquid tape dipping the end of my lyen controller where the wires exit the controller and then feeding the wires into the underside of my frame through two holes with the controller bolted on. After doing a series of stop start accelerating at 80v and 65a the controller was so hot inside the frame that i could not hold a hand on it and connectors and wires in the box were in danger of of going soft and melting lol :lol:

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by robohead » Feb 19, 2016 3:50 am

brumbrum wrote:I cannot believe i've had my build thread hijacked with pictures of christmas slippers :roll:
Nice footwear Jonboy and pucksterpete.


JK. Sweet a*s NYX build guys! How are things holding up so far?

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Feb 19, 2016 6:53 am

robohead wrote:
brumbrum wrote:I cannot believe i've had my build thread hijacked with pictures of christmas slippers :roll:
Nice footwear Jonboy and pucksterpete.


JK. Sweet a*s NYX build guys! How are things holding up so far?
Things are good. The frame, concentric bottom bracket, light weight, swingarm, torque plates are all quality items. The frame is stiff, there is no sideways play in the swing arm.

I have had to mount my lyen 18fet controller to the outside of bike attached to the underside of the nyx frame as it was getting ridiculously hot inside the frame. If the frame was metal you could possibly get away with with it inside but not with the carbon. I am playing around with the rear shock positioning at present as i had an issue with the rear shock air chamber hitting the rear wheel under full compression, but this was due to having the suspensions links set to having maximum front fork angle like a down hill bike. I have since learnt that having the shock as horizontal as possible will give the the best rear wheel travel. I am still experimenting...

Also, make sure that when the nyx team build up your bike that they lubricate the swing arm bushing. Although it is made from POM (sometimes called delrin) which is meant to be self lubricating, i found that it was sticking and not giving proper rebound from the shock absorber.

Only minus point at present is loading and unloading my lipo packs. The entrance hole in the frame is quite small, and as i have a diy lipo pack 84v 20ah made from 10 bricks it can be tire-some loading/unloading and plugging things together as there is not much room for two hands to manoeuvre inside the box. I have thought about making a cassette for the battery to slide into the box but the entrance hole size does not leave much room for a sizable cassette. I have no bms so of cousre this is the kind of issue that arises when you have to check that bricks are staying in balance. If you go for a premade battery pack and an adappto setup it will make everything a breeze.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by robohead » Feb 19, 2016 2:26 pm

Yeah I'm going with external mounting of the Max-E. I've never had a problem with external controllers taking a beating. Plus LiPo is dangerous enough on its own. I'd want to keep additional heat sources away from them. Yeah using the Adappto controller with the EIG cells, and a BMS.

Do you plan to add a BMS in the mix? The whole removing the bats sound far to laborious for something you have to do a few times a week. Actually, what kind of range/speeds are you seeing? Guessing around 16 miles off a full charge at speed. Does the bike hit 60mph ?

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Feb 19, 2016 5:12 pm

I have never bothered with BMS. I have built many packs from 18650 reclaimed laptop cells and from lipo bricks and just bulk charge. Of course i keep an eye on the lipos and have an RC balancing charger setup that will balance 5 bricks at a time, but yes, its a pain to keep checking the lipo cells on the balance taps. Having 20 cells in series there is always going to be one which wants to play games and get out of balance with the rest. As i only use the bike for off roading it is not my daily commute bike, so i put up with it. I would like an adappto so i could parallel the packs balance taps to the bms board but funds will not allow.
As for speed, i spend most time here in wet and windy Wales mud plugging in the woods or on mountain tops so i do not need huge amounts of speed, i just need the torque of a tractor lol :D . I have the lyen controller at present limited to 65 amps which for a 20ah multistar lipo pack is about right for what they are good for without straining them or getting too much voltage sag. I see around 4900w (average volts 76) and with the 17" wheel i get to 40mph(i spend more time doing 20-30). Range wise, i get about one mile per ah on very challenging terrain. The cromotor is amazing and at present i have it under powered. My mate on this forum Jonboy, he gets over 60mph on his adappto with a 32ah pack and cromotor in a 19" moto wheel when he maxes things out on his controller.

Good luck with the QS 205 motor, they look awesome, i hope they live up to the excitment being made over them on this forum.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Feb 20, 2016 9:06 am

Congratulations, very nice, good looking bike. The frame is a lot better looking than I thought it would be. About the only thing I would of done differently is the wheels. I would have used 2 1/2 x 24 double wall rims with Hook Worm tires. I would have gone with a single chain ring on the front for looks. Hell now you're making me want to build one of my own. :D

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by robohead » Feb 20, 2016 1:28 pm

Theodore Voltaire wrote:Hell now you're making me want to build one of my own. :D
Funny you say this today when you said this yesterday on the stealth thread.
Theodore Voltaire wrote:But if you're trying to say there's a better electric bicycle, then we have a problem.
Yep build one Theo. See if you can prove yourself right or wrong.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Feb 20, 2016 1:54 pm

Theodore Voltaire wrote:Congratulations, very nice, good looking bike. The frame is a lot better looking than I thought it would be. About the only thing I would of done differently is the wheels. I would have used 2 1/2 x 24 double wall rims with Hook Worm tires. I would have gone with a single chain ring on the front for looks. Hell now you're making me want to build one of my own. :D
I wouldnt get very far on hookworm tyres, and i have a single chain ring on the front, as I do not peddle through ankle deep mud and water.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Feb 21, 2016 11:05 am

robohead wrote:
Theodore Voltaire wrote:Hell now you're making me want to build one of my own. :D
Funny you say this today when you said this yesterday on the stealth thread.
Theodore Voltaire wrote:But if you're trying to say there's a better electric bicycle, then we have a problem.
Yep build one Theo. See if you can prove yourself right or wrong.
Yeah, I was referring to production bikes. I realize it's quite possible for one man to build a superior bike for himself, when money is no object, and profits are not part of the equation.

This bike might, or might not be a better Stealth, but you'll have to sell about a 1000 of them to prove it.

That being said, I do like this bike a lot.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Feb 21, 2016 11:21 am

I can see how you might complain about the steering lock. It would be nice to have wider triple trees. My bike has somewhat of the same problem, so turning around is kind of an Austin Powers routine lol. :D

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Feb 21, 2016 11:36 am

Theodore Voltaire wrote:I can see how you might complain about the steering lock. It would be nice to have wider triple trees. My bike has somewhat of the same problem, so turning around is kind of an Austin Powers routine lol. :D
Yeah, i thought it was bad enough with dual crown forks on a normal mtb, on an ebike custom frame it takes a bit of getting used to. Thankfully the overall weight of the bike with the lipo 20ah pack still enables me to pick it up and swing it around if need be. Otherwise it is usually a 3 point turn.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by robohead » Feb 21, 2016 8:23 pm

Theodore Voltaire wrote:Yeah, I was referring to production bikes. I realize it's quite possible for one man to build a superior bike for himself
...
That being said, I do like this bike a lot.
I'm just giving you a hard time and hoping to see you join the club. Even in you cannibalize a stealth in the process.

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Re: Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

Post by brumbrum » Feb 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Thought i would up date this thread.
I ended up getting an adaptto maxe with bms and charge coil. When this thing works its amazing. Does everything you could ever wish for in an all in one controller/charger/balancer/display/monitor/adjuster. Unfortunately it has been back to Russia twice during the one year warranty period for repair. In fact it turned up new from Vector bikes DOA and went up in a puff of smoke due to a loose connection inside the controller when setting up :roll: I have just had it back for a second time after a some kind of failure on the pcb.
I made a plastic cover over the wire entrance holes into the frame for the controller. It was made from a thermo plastic that could be heated in my kitchen oven for a few minutes and then molded around the controler in situ. Its proved to be water tight and keeps out mud, dust etc. I covered it with some cheapo carbon vinyl so it looked less like a margarine tub lol.

Other changes have been the rear tyre, now a vee rubber trials tyre 3.50x17". Its a beast but not sure how long i will put up with the extra weight this meaty tyre carries.

Also treated the bike to some 780mm renthal fat bars which i highly recommend, and have just added some inverted air sprung forks which are as smooth as butter.

Some pics......

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Last edited by brumbrum on Feb 16, 2017 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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