My Raleigh E-bike

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Re: My Raleigh E-bike - Golden Motor 24V Mini-Mo at 48V!

Postby 317537 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Papa wrote:Russ, I suspect you already noticed, but I'll mention it anyway.

The six brake rotor mounting holes appear to be drilled completely through the side cover. As such, ya might consider plugging those threaded holes (with a squirt of silicone maybe?) to prevent moisture and dirt from entering the gearbox.



Or install a brake disk onto it.
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike - Golden Motor 24V Mini-Mo at 48V!

Postby Russell » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:57 pm

317537 wrote:Ahhh I see the damage it clear in the pic the hub is together, is that ring broken or just munged?

It looks repairable and could make a good back up motor or one to experiment with. Or is the hub to far out of centre to bother?


The flange isn't just bent, it's cracked.


317537 wrote:Or install a brake disk onto it.


The fork does not have disc mounts.

-R
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby GoldenMotor » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:57 am

oh no don't mention it, i was just browsing through my e-mails and i saw this. told you fellas gm is improving!
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Russell » Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:15 pm

Last ride for the season…at least for this bike/battery.

It was a crisp afternoon with temps that didn’t exceed 36F (2C) during the ride and while the sun shown brightly it adds little warmth these days. I’ll probably get a few more rides on my other bike before I pack it in for the season but today I wanted to drain this 36V/20Ah Li-ion battery down for storage. Also after finding the limits of a Mini Motor just like the one I’m running on this bike on my other bike I decided to take the current up a notch. I was reluctant to do this while I was using the 3 Bosch Fatpacks (rated 6.6Ah) but with the recently acquired 20Ah battery why not. I replaced the little 6-FET controller with a 9-FET E-BikeKit/Infineon controller with the shunt soldered up to produce a peak of 24.5 Amps. During the ride this produced a peak power of 905W compared to 578W on the last outing with the 15A controller. Acceleration was enhanced and my speed going up hills was better by several mph.

It was a brisk ride in two respects, first with an average speed of 19.0 mph it was faster than I normally ride and second with a top speed of 36.1 mph the wind chill was…umm, chilling. Anyway by the time I got home (25.8 miles) I had used up half the pack which at a resting voltage of 38.0V was a good level to store it for a few months. I will take a reading perhaps once a week to see if that holds. My Fatpacks have been cooling their heels in the fridge for the past month and haven’t lost a bit of voltage but then they don’t have a BMS. I’m uncertain at this level if the BMS in the 20Ah Li-ion pack will present any load so to be safe I’ll check it more often than the Fatpacks.

I can't wait for spring...

-R
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby kefa » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:32 pm

Hi Russell,

Just curious why you chose the 24v mini instead of the 36v mini. What are the differences between the two?
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Russell » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:41 pm

kefa wrote:Hi Russell,

Just curious why you chose the 24v mini instead of the 36v mini. What are the differences between the two?


I started with a 36V Bafang on this bike then moved it to my other ebike, then switched from 36V to 48V on that bike leaving me with a 36V only controller and a 36V battery. I hate to see things go to waste so after examining the graphs at Goldenmotor.com I saw their 24V Mini was wound to spin about 40% faster than the 36V (you could also think of it as a 36V motor made for a 20" wheel). Anyway I bought the 24V Mini for this bike in order to use the 36V controller and battery yet have a higher top speed than if I had gone with the 36V version and run it on 36V. It worked, the 24V Mini on 36V provides the same top speed on the flats as the 36V Bafang at 48V does on my other bike. The trade-off for that speed with the 24V Mini is of course less low-end torque however that can be boosted to a degree with more current. I couldn't squeeze the extra amps reliably from the small 36V only 6-FET controller so I swapped in a bigger controller and since the 36V battery I was using was 3 Bosch Fatpacks with a maximum demonstrated capacity of 6.4Ah I needed a bigger battery which meant using the 36V/20Ah battery I purchased to use with a 9C motor. Funny thing is now the 36V controller and 36V battery which were the reason for getting the 24V Mini once again sit unused :? …for the moment. :)


-R
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby kefa » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:35 pm

do you mind telling me how you calculated the spoke lengths? i'm thinking of getting one of these motors and lacing it up to a 700c rim like you.
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Russell » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:38 pm

I used the spoke calculator at http://www.dtswiss.com/SpokesCalc/Welcome.aspx?language=en

For the FRONT GM Mini I used the following parameters;

Pitch Circle Diameter: 120.00mm
Flange distance: 23.00mm
0 of spoke hole: 3.0mm

No. of spokes: 36
No. of intersections: 2 (can use 1 if you like)

Use the nipple length you prefer (I used 16mm because it made the 258mm spokes I had on hand work)

Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) can usually be found at the rim manufacturer's website or is often listed by retailers. (I used a 700C Sun CR-18 rim with an ERD of 612mm).

-R
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike...NOT

Postby Russell » Mon May 31, 2010 3:35 pm

This Raleigh was my first conversion which became a sorta test mule and I used what I learned from it to build my second E-bike based on a Kona Smoke steel framed bike. The differences between the two were only in the details which made the Raleigh redundant. After selling my third bike, a Cannondale flat-bar road bike, I was in need of a regular bike therefore I converted the Raleigh back to pedal-only power.

Yesterday was a hot day so I went on a long slow ride on my Kona/Bafang E-bike. A significant number of the 41 miles I covered were on pedal power alone which got me thinking about the Raleigh which has been sitting unused since it's "un-conversion". I figured if I could pedal a 59 pound bike a long way the 32 pound Raleigh (as equipped in pic below) would be a breeze. Today it was significantly cooler, though still quite sticky, with only a light wind; in other words a good day for a ride. 8)

Raleigh_No_Motor 003a.jpg
Raleigh_No_Motor 003a.jpg (196.09 KiB) Viewed 789 times


My usual average trip speed on the Kona E-bike is in the mid/high 17's to the low 18 mph range but yesterday with a lot of miles on pedal-only power I averaged just 15.7 mph which got me to wondering where the threshold was where it would be faster to ride the conventional Raleigh bike. Today's ride was to answer that question. I took off and of course instantly noticed how much easier it was to get the lighter Raleigh up to speed. The ride though a bit harsher with the aluminum frame/steel fork/28mm tires compared to the Kona's all steel construction with 50/47mm tires wasn't bad. The first good hill, averaging around 5-6%, demonstrated why I like riding the motorized bike. The hill just seems so much longer spinning away at 8-9 mph than it does at 14 mph with the motor. The bike path I hop on to head west, an old railroad route, has a 4 mile section where it maintains a steady 1% up grade. It's along this section where on a nice summer weekend I pass countless other cyclists while riding my E-bike at a sedate 16-17 mph. Today on human power alone I was reminded why this is so. My favorite bike calculator ( http://www.noping.net/english/ ) says I need 150W (a power level I can sustain for prolonged periods) to maintain 12.8 mph up a 1% grade and while I dipped to 13 mph at times I was normally maintaining 14-15 mph along this section, meaning I was indeed working hard. And that's another thing about riding sans motor, ya never get a break when you're heading up hill or into the wind. :| Anyway at the conclusion of the 18.2 mile ride I had averaged 15.9 mph, slightly faster than yesterday's much longer motor-assisted ride.

With extra motors and controllers lying around I was thinking about converting the Raleigh back to an E-bike but make it as light as possible. The bike would never be a true lightweight but with the sub-6 pound 24V GM Mini and say 5Ah of 10S LiPo (~23 mph top speed) along with some weight-saving measures, like removing the fenders and using even lighter tires, I think a 40 pound "as ridden" weight might be doable. With light use I bet I could get 30 miles of assist from it too. :wink:

-R
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Samson » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:40 pm

Hi Russel

My first post and I realize this thread is old but I hope you don't mind updating me on how you made out with the Mini motor. I am considering using one for my first build. I want a very light bike and do not mind pedaling. I have a 42V 10Ahr battery, a 26" wheel size and the bike and me weigh about 250 Lbs. I am fine with a max speed of 30-32 Km\hr. What range do think I could expect to get on the flats?

Has the motor been reliable?
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Russell » Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:39 am

Hello Samson,

The Mini Motor is just a Bafang so the reliability is the same as that brand. I put over 5,000 miles on my first Bafang, a "36V" model, before damaging a hall sensor. When I disassembled that Bafang I found the gears in nearly pristine condition. I locked up the clutch and ran it probably another 1,000 miles with a sensorless controller. The Mini-Motor I purchased from Golden Motor is a "24V" model which means it's wound for a higher RPM/V. In a 700C wheel it'll do around 23.5 MPH (38 Km/h) with a 36V Lithium pack and on with my present 12S LiPo pack and a tiny 15A controller it runs a current-limited 27 MPH (43.5 Km/h).

Overall the Bafang/Mini is a good motor as long as it's run within its limits. If it has one weak point I'd say it's the hall sensors and the hall sensor wiring. I melted the insulation on the hall wiring in one Mini Motor running at 1000W peak which is why I limit it to around 750W now.

Late this past summer after selling a couple other bikes I converted the Raleigh back to electric power using the Mini Motor once again. The ride however is simply too harsh on Wisconsin roads and paths so I have decommisioned it once and for all. I re-used the mini-motor and a number of other parts from the Raleigh to build this bike.

IMAGE001 (2).JPG
IMAGE001 (2).JPG (90.3 KiB) Viewed 443 times



As for range; it all depends on how fast you ride and how much you pedal. I pedal all the time and used anywhere from 6 to 13 Wh/mile at average trip speeds of generally around 16-18.5 mph on the Raleigh. Everybody is different however so your range/speed WILL be different.


-R
Last edited by Russell on Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeep Comanche 29er w/Bafang QSWXH, 41 lbs + 9 to 14 lb rear trunk bag w/tools+battery, 29 mph w/12S LiPo.
Mongoose Hatchet dual suspension w/Bafang BPM

Past Bikes: Raleigh 700C, Kona Smoke 2-9
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Re: My Raleigh E-bike

Postby Samson » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:48 pm

Thanks Russel, I have ordered a 36 V version of the mini motor from Golden Motor Canada. I estimate it should give me about 27 Km\hr at 42 volts with a 700C tire. If it is to slow I will add an additional cell or two to the Headway pack I am building. I will set the current limit to stay under 700 watts which is probably about the max for the Magic controller. I will try to improve the cooling some on the controller as the case heat sink looks small if pushed to 25 amps. Hopefully I will get some road time in before the snow flies!
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